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Edited by Magic Air:
9/1/2014 8:01:34 AM
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Auto Rifles were useless before the Shingen/Cydonia - the Shingen/Cydonia were the exception, not the rule. Barely anybody used Auto Rifles before that because they were worthless. If Bungie have nerfed Auto Rifles across the board instead of just re-balancing the Shingen/Cydonia (or simply the rate of fire), that was a very stupid decision. It means all Auto Rifles will be even more worthless than they were to begin with. And they were pretty damn worthless to begin with. I truly hope they've re-balanced them on an individual bases, but knowing Luke and his 'odd' decision-making, I doubt they have. Say goodbye to the Auto Rifle everybody, because you'll be breaking every single one down into weapon parts. Junk. Total junk.
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[quote]I truly hope they've re-balanced them on an individual bases, but knowing Luke and his 'odd' decision-making...[/quote]I imagine that Luke Smith wasn't specifically the designer who was in charge of said Auto Rifle changes, he's just the lead designer on Raids. Regardless, if Bungie doesn't strike the right balance with their changes to the Auto Rifle, the nature of the game they've designed will allow them to tinker until they reach a more healthy sandbox ecosystem.
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Edited by Magic Air: 9/1/2014 8:27:23 AM[quote]I imagine that Luke Smith wasn't specifically the designer who was in charge of said Auto Rifle changes, he's just the lead designer on Raids.[/quote] Luke Smith is Destiny's Design Lead, not just Destiny's Raid Design Lead. This change was quite literally, his decision. That's why he was the one responding with the information on the PAX board. [quote]Regardless, if Bungie doesn't strike the right balance with their changes to the Auto Rifle, the nature of the game they've designed will allow them to tinker until they reach a more healthy sandbox ecosystem.[/quote] Up until those 'tinkers' are made, those 'tinkers' are irrelevant. Those who play the game in its state prior to that; saying 'they'll tinker' will not make the specifics anymore useful in that instance of play. To suggest that everything is okay because they could make it okay in the future is ignorant at best, and idiotic at worst.
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[quote]Luke Smith is Destiny's Design Lead, not just Destiny's Raid Design Lead. This change was quite literally, his decision.[/quote]That's certainetly not how he introduced himself at the panel or in previous interviews. There are several Design Leads at Bungie, like Lars Bakken is a Design Lead, but he's not the Design Lead for the entire project, he's the Design Lead for the Competitive Multiplayer. I imagine that if anyone was in charge of the Auto Rifle decision, it would be someone more involved with the sandbox directly, like Sage Merill or Josh Hamrick. There are certainly producers and project leads which oversee the design of the game on a much grander scale, but even then they're not singlehandedly responsible for making or approving specific changes and such, their job is to more so make sure that Destiny as a whole is going in the right direction. [quote]That's why he was the one responding with the information on the PAX board.[/quote]He wasn't there to officially break down the changes from the Beta as the sole person in charge of making them, it was an off the cuff example of how the Beta changed to the final version of the game as Emi / Luke Timmins didn't have very marketable examples / examples they were comfortable with sharing. [quote]To suggest that everything is okay because they could make it okay in the future is ignorant at best, and idiotic at worst.[/quote]To be fair, they haven't revealed specific details on what changes the plan to make to the Auto Rifles, and if they plan on hitting specific offenders or are trying to modify game elements that would effect the Auto Rifles as a whole. Personally I think they would most likely balance in passes, hitting specific offenders that have laser like precision and reliabillity until players feel comfortable leaning on other weapon archetypes. Localized changes demand localized solutions, and I'd really hope that they'd try to avoid lazy and heavy handed global solutions like "All auto rifles are automatically 10% more inaccurate" which would negatively affect the Saharas of the Destiny World. That would be very pants on head silly, I agree. So it's not so much that "Everything is okay because Bungie is infallible and even if they are they can instantly make changes to make things perfect", it's more so that I agree that some Auto Rifles do need to take a hit for the health of the sandbox and until they reveal their specific plans for doing so I'm not going pitchfork and torch their studio. If the changes they make are bad, I'll be happy to write a thread telling them so, it's just that at the moment I'm optimistic about Destiny because unlike Halo they'll presumably have the abillity to make these balance decisions for long after launch. I don't feel that you are wrong for being concerned, I mostly just wanted to chime in that there's plenty of designers at Bungie and that Luke Smith likely isn't in charge of this particular decision.
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[quote]Localized changes demand localized solutions, and I'd [b]really hope that they'd try to avoid lazy and heavy handed global solutions like "All auto rifles are automatically 10% more inaccurate" which would negatively affect the Saharas of the Destiny World[/b]. That would be very pants on head silly, I agree.[/quote] Patch notes: [i]Reduced the base Damage of all Assault Rifles by 7% Reduced the base Accuracy ranges by [14% to 25%], modified by weapon stat Reduced the base Stability ranges by [8% to 80%], modified by weapon stat[/i] It's just like you said, pants on head silly. I'm all for balance but this decision will come back to bite them. Who nerfs a whole weapon type when only a few are overpowered? It's insane.
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Edited by Magic Air: 9/2/2014 8:44:14 AM[quote]There are certainly producers and project leads which oversee the design of the game on a much grander scale, but even then they're not singlehandedly responsible for making or approving specific changes and such[/quote] Yes, this person is [i][b]Luke Smith[/b][/i]. [i]He[/i] is the Design Lead at Bungie for the project we know as 'Destiny'. And yes, [i]he is[/i] 'singlehandedly' responsible for approving specific changes in game design. It doesn't matter who's idea the changes are, Luke Smith is responsible for approving the implementation in accordance with the game design as his title of Design Lead; he overseas all departments of design, specialized or not. Equally, Lars Bakken is not 'Design Lead'. He may be head of Multiplayer Design, to which he may be referred Multiplayer Design Lead; [i]a[/i] Design Lead; [i]the[/i] Multiplayer Design Lead; not [i]the[/i] Design Lead; Luke Smith is [i]the[/i] Design Lead of the project: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/luke-smith/2/190/631 [quote]I don't feel that you are wrong for being concerned, I mostly just wanted to chime in that there's plenty of designers at Bungie and that Luke Smith likely isn't in charge of this particular decision.[/quote] Well, thanks for clarifying that. And see you in-game, Guardian.
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What's that I smell...... an AR fanboy who padded his KD with a weapon that was hopelessly out of balance?......... My Scout rifle wants you to cry a little tear for the OP AR....
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Edited by Magic Air: 9/1/2014 8:15:38 AMPeople like you make no sense. You literally respond to comments without reading the comment to which you respond. I said the Shingen/Cydonia should have been re-balanced, but other Auto Rifles were worthless, and will suffer even more so than they already did before the Shingen/Cydonia, as nobody used them prior to that for they were worthless. It really has nothing to do with your Scout Rifle, or tears.
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Stop encouraging the kid....
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Has it occurred to you that.. A. I read it all and found it to be utter drivel, as you clearly do not understand how individual aspects can be changes B. Not all AR will be retooled (only the Galahad C was massively retooled from Alpha to Beta) so it is quite obvious that individual weapons can be tooled without the entire class being effecte C. Your proposition that all other AR are worthless is amazingly wrong, In the alpha i rocked a Galahad C and a good SC. In the beta i rocked a generic green AR and a top end SC. The other AR are perfectly fine when you compare them to the other gun types and NOT to the OP AR D. The most popular ARs from Beta were OP, get over it
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Edited by Magic Air: 9/1/2014 8:53:12 AMFirstly, regarding your points 'A' and 'B', like I already stated, [i][b]'If[/b] Bungie have nerfed Auto Rifles across the board [b]instead[/b] of just re-balancing the Shingen/Cydonia (or simply the rate of fire), that was a very stupid decision'[/i]; the keywords there are bolded. Followed by, [i]'I truly hope they've re-balanced them on an [b]individual bases[/b], but knowing Luke and his 'odd' decision-making, I doubt they have'[/i] [quote]C. Your proposition that all other AR are worthless is amazingly wrong, In the alpha i rocked a Galahad C and a good SC. In the beta i rocked a generic green AR and a top end SC. The other AR are perfectly fine when you compare them to the other gun types and NOT to the OP AR[/quote] Sorry, but I can't take this seriously at all. It was you who said this, [i]'What's that I smell...... an AR fanboy who padded his KD with a weapon that was hopelessly out of balance?......... My Scout rifle wants you to cry a little tear for the OP AR....'[/i] - Your views are conflicting. [quote]D. The most popular ARs from Beta were OP, get over it[/quote] Yes, we've established this. I already stated that the Shingen/Cydonia needed re-balancing. I've stated this several times to you now, in both my responses, and in my original comment. Get your shit together.
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Edited by Lord Vetinari: 9/1/2014 9:06:22 AM[quote]Sorry, but I can't take this seriously at all. It was you who said this, 'What's that I smell...... an AR fanboy who padded his KD with a weapon that was hopelessly out of balance?......... My Scout rifle wants you to cry a little tear for the OP AR....' - Your views are conflicting.[/quote] My point is invalid as I have experience with both the OP and NON OP AR?.... ohhh ok If you pay attention you will see that im highlighting how easy it was to use both the OP and non OP AR, in the fact i swapped over (I had a shingen in the beta but didn't use it. It was just not sporting). However, in the correct range for the AR they all performed very similar. the OP only comes from the lack of bloom and recoil making the Shingen a full auto SC [quote]. If Bungie have nerfed Auto Rifles across the board instead of just re-balancing the Shingen/Cydonia (or simply the rate of fire), that was a very stupid decision[/quote] IF IF IIIFFFF You state more then once that you believe and assume that it will be all AR as .. [quote]I truly hope they've re-balanced them on an individual bases, but knowing Luke and his 'odd' decision-making, I doubt they have[/quote] [quote] I doubt they have. Say goodbye to the Auto Rifle everybody, because you'll be breaking every single one down into weapon parts. Junk. Total junk.[/quote] Such Assumption Much Speculation To The Moon WOW
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Edited by Magic Air: 9/1/2014 10:32:52 AM[quote]My point is invalid as I have experience with both the OP and NON OP AR?.... ohhh ok[/quote] No, not at all. I cannot take the point seriously as it conflicts with a point you made previously. You then further go on to suggest that the difference between the Shingen and 'other Auto Rifles' was indistinguishable other than bloom and recoil, despite already stating that they 'were hopelessly out of balance'. Equally, bloom and recoil were specifications for the weapon, and the Shingen was not the only one with those properties. It was the rate of fire which set the Shingen apart. Equally so for the Cydonia. [quote]If you pay attention you will see that im highlighting how easy it was to use both the OP and non OP AR, in the fact i swapped over (I had a shingen in the beta but didn't use it. It was just not sporting). However, in the correct range for the AR they all performed very similar. the OP only comes from the lack of bloom and recoil making the Shingen a full auto SC[/quote] No, they didn't perform similarly except in competitive multiplayer, where some specifications were neutralised. However, in this instance, they were still effected by rate of fire. Not only that, but you're suggesting that the 'OP and non OP AR' all 'perform very similar', yet stating previously that they were 'hopelessly out of balance. [quote]You state more then once that you believe and assume that it will be all AR as .. Such Assumption Much Speculation To The Moon WOW[/quote] No; [i]'I truly hope they've re-balanced them on an individual bases, but knowing Luke and his 'odd' decision-making, I doubt they have'[/i] - See this quote? There is no 'belief' other than doubt, which means to be 'uncertain'. The only assumptions made here are those preceded by an open statement, '[i]if'[/i]. [i]If[/i] all Auto Rifles have been nerfed instead of adjusted on an individual bases; they will be junk. [i]If[/i] Luke Smith's previous decision-making is anything to go by, I'm uncertain the changes will be made on an individual basis. I [i]hope[/i] they have re-balanced them on an individual basis.
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Im all for balancing weapons but bungie has a habit of when they "balance" they simply make the precision weapon OP halo 3/BR, halo reach/DMR
