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11/14/2004 9:42:42 PM
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HUMANS ARE THE FORERUNNERS *SPOILER*
This is not my own theory, but I've pulled pieces together to make a more coherent version, updated with Halo 2 information. **SPOILERS**
FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH
A. On Halo 04, 343 Guilty Spark calls the Master Chief a "Reclaimer" (and Penitent Tangent, the Monitor of Installation 05, says the same) -- Why do you think Guilty Spark is so friendly to the MC on Halo 04? He EXPECTS him to be there. He EXPECTS him to know protocol. He EXPECTS the MC to be there in order to set off the Halos...
"Perfect timing" with when the Flood were released.
QUOTE: "ah, a reclaimer is here. What perfect timing..."
In other words -- 343GS EXPECTED a HUMAN to come initiate the Halos.
343GS also hints he is of a lower class than MC when he insists that only MC can insert the index into Halo. (the same thing happens on Halo 05 when Tartarus forces a human Sargeant to insert the Index into Halo).
Over and over on Halo 04, 343GS keeps making comments about how the MC SHOULD know all the required protocol for Halo and the Flood.
QUOTE: "After all, how couldn't [he]?"
COVIES
B. The Covenant are a 'copying' culture. Covie Engineers can duplicate and manipulate, but not invent. They got their technology from the superior Forerunners who the Covies now revere at near-godlike status.
It's also interesting to note that the Prophets didn't even give humans a CHANCE to assimilate into the Covenant. Didn't even ask. But that's what the Covenant IS -- they combine other races to their whole in order to give all species passage to the 'divine beyond' through the Halos... but the Prophets gave humans no such opportunity. Could they be hiding something from EVERYONE, even the other Covies??
LANGUAGE BARRIER
C. Strangely enough, Covenant script (in the Halo 2 dialouges book) is very similar to Arabic symbols used in the English language today... a phonetic diversion, but perhaps it is our lettering system evolved several millenia?
Just a thought.
SACRIFICE FOR THE GREATER GOOD
D. The 7 Halos went off as planned several millenia ago as a last ditch effort to destory the Flood and killed off the Forerunner race. Penitent Tangent says this clearly in Halo 2 when talking to Tartarus and the Arbiter in the Control Room. BUT -- HERE'S WHERE YOU HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION -- How is Penitent Tangent supposed to know that ALL the Forerunners died? He's isolated on Halo 05, lightyears from earth.
What if a remainder of the Forerunners survived when the Halo's went off? On the Ark perhaps? (Whether the Ark is the Earth of whether the Ark is the Forerunner ship that Truth left High Charity on, I don't care, that's not the issue right now) What I'm saying is that it is COMPLETELY possible that a few humans survived, and RE-POPULATED (or simply populated for the first time) THE EARTH, creating human history as WE know it.
The ARK that carried humans through the FLOOD. It's an obvious Biblical allusion.
Here's the original story-- everything on earth is goin great, but humans really !blam! it up. God decides that his creation is being ruined, so he picks the remaining humans that haven't been *infected* yet (by a sinful life) to get on the Ark and survive his oncoming FLOOD. When the waters subsided, they were left with a deserted Earth to re-populate and begin again.
WEIRD CONNECTION?
F. The symbols and star maps found on Forerunner artifacts are strangely familar to John (the Master Chief, Spartan 117) and his fellow Spartans on Plantet Reach and Sigma Octanus IV.
TIME WARP?
G. There's some weird time-travel crap going on with Cortana and the "Keeper of the Luminous Key"... a Covenant AI with her base coding structure at the core.
All the info I have is taken from dialogue found in Halo: Combat Evolved, Halo 2, and the three Halo books.
It's pretty obvious to me... Humans are the Forerunners. And just think about it.
It makes sense. Why else would the monitors keep calling humans "Reclaimers" and expecting them to have better technology and a full understanding of Halo protocol??
[Edited on 11/14/2004 4:47:26 PM]
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343 Guilty Spark: ...More or less. Technically, this installation's pulse has a maximum effective radius of up to 25,000 light years. But, once others follow suit, this galaxy will be quite devoid of life. Or, at least any life with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood. But you already knew that. I mean... how couldn't you? If Your theory is wrong why did 343 say this? And... 343 Guilty Spark: Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done? 343 Must have recognised Master Chief as the last reclaimer But again why would he have apart from the theory that humans might have been the previous forerunners. Also... 343 Guilty Spark: Last time you asked me, if it were my choice, would I do it? Having had considerable time to ponder your querey, my answer has not changed. Apparently someone or something asked 343 Would he do it? of course it was not master chief though why would 343 say it to him if he did not recognise the chief One other thing... 343 Guilty Spark Approached Master Chief before anyone else, he could have easily picked a stronger faster elite than a human of course that an elite would have not understood what 343 was speaking since he speaks english. Guilty Spark must have assumed from previous experience that Master chief would have known the protocols and such. So there you go What if youre theory is correct, Humans could after all be the Forerunners...
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I havent read the books yet, so I won't add to the myriad of theories on this thread until I have all of the info to look over myself, but after reading EVERY message, I feel the need to point out that alot of people are repeating incorrect info... The Halo rings DO NOT DESTROY everything in the galaxie, they destroy all [i] sentient [/i] life.. sen·tient adj. - Having sense perception; conscious this does not include trees, grass, butterflies, planets, stars, and in my opinon the flood. From what I understand, the flood are not sentient life, as they do not "think." Now, before people come afterme saying they have to be able to think in order to attack you, I will preemptively respond by saying that ameoba know when to attack, but they are not considered sentient life. Like I said, I dont have all of the info on the history not included in the game, so I wont throw anything into the fray here. ----------------------------------------------- Just one more question: Does anyone have anything to say about the names 343GS and 2401 Penitent Tangent? ---------------- pen·i·tent adj. - Feeling or expressing remorse for one's misdeeds or sins. tan·gent adj. - A sudden digression or change of course -------------- guilt·y adj. - 1)Responsible for or chargeable with a reprehensible act; deserving of blame; culpable: guilty of cheating; the guilty party. 2)Suffering from or prompted by a sense of guilt: a guilty conscience. 3)Hinting at or entailing guilt: a guilty smirk; a guilty secret spark n. - 1) An incandescent particle, especially: A) One remaining in an otherwise extinguished fire; an ember. B) A glistening particle, as of metal. 2) A trace or suggestion, as a quality or feeling with latent potential; a seed or germ: the spark of genius. Just curios what people have to say...
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haha thats some imagination. but... you never know... lol. im just wondering what the flood was feeding off of to survive in the ring.
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i have a new theory on how the humans, the covenant survived (if they were alive at that time) well in the first halo 343GS said something about the control room having a radius of a large scale, what if the forerunners made a special control room with a smaller radius and missed out on killing certain life forms, who knows how it happened maybe the blast did kill everything that was living, so if some living orgainism was in a block of ice making it lifeless and survived the blast (probable because it wasent living), the ice block defrosted and evolution happened over the millions of years. i know it sounds stupid but........who cares they're only specilation
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Insomniac Jedi *spoilers* Sorry, you are wrong. In Halo 2 it says plain and simple that the forerunners blew themselves up with the Halo Rings along with all other sentient life.[/quote] how would guilty spark know everything. he isnt a god. why do you expect he is automatically correct. It is VERY possible he is wrong or was just not told about the ark. im asssuming you're refering to what guilty spark said. [Edited on 11/15/2004 12:54:59 AM]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Colin Coulter just one question... why would the foreunners be dumb enough to make a weapon that was to destory all life in the galaxy, then save themselves? the Rings are to destory all the food of the flood. do you really think they'd be dumb enough to save some of themselves in the ark if they wanted the flood contained so badly they were willing to BLOW UP THE GALAXY to do it? too much risk of contamination. Forerunners are extinct ---> forerunners are not humans[/quote] what if there was a rebellion withing the forerunners. some forerunners didnt want to die so they made the ark. or maybe the forerunners werent sure that starving the flood would work so they wanted to save a few of themselves to finish the job if it didnt work. which is maybe why the guilty sparks are expecting the forerunners return... you know this game is a sci-fi, you have to allow for a huge amount of possibilities
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Insomniac Jedi *spoilers* Sorry, you are wrong. In Halo 2 it says plain and simple that the forerunners blew themselves up with the Halo Rings along with all other sentient life.[/quote] ok heres the thing if all sentient life died the how in the hell are there humans and covenant now!? how the hell did humans and covie bastards survive this sentient life death trap
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The Halo's destroying the galaxy or whatever is not true, I don't think. If it was true that they destroyed everything, even themselves then how is the flood still around? why are the planets and all that still around? That's the thing I don't get, I think that the covenant believe the forerunners destroyed themselves because of tablets they found that explained what would happen if the halo's were activated, however they misunderstood it and think the halos are some kind of holy device that will take them to another place... Possibly where ever the forerunners went, but they don't know all it will do is destroy everything. At the end of the game guilty spark says that the forerunner ship is going TO the ark, not that it is the ark. The ark, apparently holds the final index, the one and only thing that can activate the halo's. Now, if you followed the ILB story line, the artifact that the apocalypso found sent out 7 subspace signals when it was activated towards the end of the storyline. I believe that the artifact at Chawla base is the ark, the final index, where ever this artifact is becomes the only safe spot away from the holy fire of the halos. Now... I might be wrong, and probably am, but I'm just trying to figure it all out. I also wonder if the grave mind (ya know, "feed me seymour" plant?) is actually a forerunner? Maybe. Who knows.
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just one question... why would the foreunners be dumb enough to make a weapon that was to destory all life in the galaxy, then save themselves? the Rings are to destory all the food of the flood. do you really think they'd be dumb enough to save some of themselves in the ark if they wanted the flood contained so badly they were willing to BLOW UP THE GALAXY to do it? too much risk of contamination. Forerunners are extinct ---> forerunners are not humans
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Interesting Theory. thought many others claim that you are wrong I think that is might just be what Bungie thought... it all makes sense... I agree with you... A+
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After reading everything everybody says. It makes perfect sense that the forrerunners are humans. There is so much evidence pointing towards it. in fact, there is so much evidence that it would be a theory to say the forerunners were "not" human. I read soeone say that it would be impossible for the forerunners to survive on earth since earth would be within the blast range. But if this is the case... How would human life even exist. There would have to be something to start it off, it couldn't have just sprung out of no where. This having being said, The ark that was made, was probably used to withinstand the blast the rings created and able to preserve life within it. Now, once everything was wiped clean, the forerunners needed a place to settle. They chose earth since it had very similar atmosphere and gravity as what they were used to on the ring. I remember reading someone saying that the rings atmosphere and stuff was the same as earths so ya, that makes quite a bit of sense. Now, some people say that why are we so primitive compared to the forunners then. Well look at it this way, if everyone on the earth died, and you survived along with a few otehr people. would you still be using microwaves and cars. no, it would be impossible. You would have to resort to a primitive lifestyle. It would be the only way to survive. If this STILL doesn't make sense, I ask yo to read some books like The Lord of the Flies. That book demonstrates this perfectly how preppy and smart english students after being crash landed on a desolate island became savages and had to live by the law of nature. It is a VERY good point that ONLY and ONLY humans can insert the data disk into the halo to commence its launching or whatever. And how the monitor EVEN says that it is happy to see that you were able to repopulate and return. Also someone wrote that the word "FORERUNNER" in the dictionary meant ancestor. ancestor of the humans? it all adds up to me Even thoug im pretty convinced with this forunner being humans thing. there is something bugging me. how did the flood survive on the rungs so long. if the rings destroy tere food so that the flood dies away. wouldn't the flood on the rungs need something to feed on to survive? I dont recall anything on the rings they could have used. That part really doesn't make sesnse to me
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The ark could be a forunner ship filled with a adapatiple lifeform (humans) that when halo was set of it did a intersteller jump out of the galaxy and back in again and landed on the closet hospitable planet (earth)
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Ok first of all to all those people who think that 343GS called MC a reclaimer because his armor was based off of elites armor that was based off of forerunner armor. i would like to point out that the MJOLNIR armor was created before the humans even knew exactly what the covenant is if you read fall of reach the spartan II program and the armor started like ten years before the covenant invasion. only the shield on the MJOLNIR armor is modeled after the elites armor the outside appearance is totally human designed now on to my theory or rather my compilation of other people's theories. what if the forerunners were a collective like the covenant. and the humans were called reclaimers. ie they reclaimed worlds in the fight against the flood or teraformed "reclaimed" planets to be lived on or something. also the prophets were either the enemies of the forerunners or a rebel faction that hated the "reclaimers" much like the brutes and elites. this would explain why the prophets wish to destroy the humans it also explains why the monitors of halo mainly 343GS call every human they see a reclaimer. (with the possible exception of sergeant Johnson)
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About English speaking Covenant. They learned it so they could communicate their death-threat to us. Remember in The Fall of Reach, the transmission came in [i]English[/i], "your destruction is the will of the gods."
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oh oh and... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ChefOfDeath I swear, even if there is going to be a Halo 3, I hope that Bungie publishes a versoin of the Halo Bible so that we can read through it and understand [i]everything[/i].[/quote] now tell me... you want all the answers and none of the disscussion? what fun would that be? i am having a better time thinking the theory than reading about it... our minds make better novels than any book.
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Nice theory. not sure if i believe it though. First, why would the monitor expect somone who is reported 'extinct' (to that distance which i cant remember) and if humans were to exist the monitors would have known of the 'ark' beforehand, why would the forerunners hide this info of an ark from their database? and if the forerunners just went out of the blast radius of halo's then they would still possess the technology to return and start anew from where they left off. next... a personal question: why is it that the flood lives after the blast of halo? if they escaped they would not have been blasted as they are not life. and if they are life then the halo would have destroyed them also. OR, possibly for some strange reason they decided to invent a way to keep certian areas of containment away from the blast, this could also be used to preserve life from the foreruners. But what i think is most interesting, is that if indeed the forerunners are human, we would definately be far supperior to the covenant, as while they are evolving we are already evolved and should be working on technology. and seeing as the covenant have evolved enough to use forerunner technology, they should be on par with humans evolution wize.
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[b] If im wrong about the Halo 2 bit then ignore this message. [/b] On Halo 2, didn't the Brute's want Keyes to do the dirty work with the index (it's near the end of Halo 2) just like the Sgt whatever and MC in Halo 1 It just seem's strange how they want the human's to do it all the time. (in less they just want someone to blame after the chaos lol) [Edited on 11/14/2004 10:29:13 PM]
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ok, sorry for not reading every single post here, but here are my thoughts. Yes, human's WERE the forerunner, but have since lost MOST knowledge of their past. After most of there race was destroyed after activating the Halo's, they decided to start over again, using what they've learned to make there future better. They then created the bible, using what they knew to teach future generations incase The Flood was again released, and to teach the future generations about there past/future. They then purified themselves by starting over, without their advanced technology (or they were unable to repair/create and of their tech). THose are my thoughts, and I believe they did survive, and anyone who says that 343 and Pentient said all the forerunner died is obviously not looking at the big picture, because ppl here are right, the Halo's have a max range (hence multiple halo's) and it would be impossible for 343 and Pentient to know that ALL the forerunner were killed. And when talking about the covenant not speaking or speaking english. I believe the Covenant originally do not speak english, but must all learn english (or at least a very similar language) in order to under the forerunner's past or teachings. [Edited on 11/14/2004 10:19:27 PM]
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Gravemind is a member of the Flood. I doubt every host that got taken over went to battle. Also, Gravemind could read minds and assimilate thoughts/feelings/emotions/memories and the like. Humans had deciphered the Covenant common language and programmed it into Cortana. Note that any time you heard them speak english it was either in MC's view with Cortana, in the Arbiters P.O.V. or in a cutscene.
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Anyone else wonder why the Monitors and Gravemind speak English? It's definitely NOT translation software... hmm... ...and to the guy who keeps saying that the Halos never went off... dude... get your facts straight. 343GS even says it on the Library level on Halo 04 if you listen to him while he's guiding you through the torrents of Flood... some of ya'll have no idea what you're talking about.
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It cannot be said that the ones who touch the index is a reclaimor, guilty spark had a human reclaimer before master cheif that died before he got to the library. In halo Guilty Spark refers to MC's armor and the Pillar Of Autmn, as if he recognized them as forerunner tech.
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Consider this, 343 says what the Halo rings did to the Forerunners (they pretty much backfired), THEN HE ASKED IF KEYES WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE FOOTAGE!!!! Hmmmm... Well 343 probably holds all the answers, except the dev's chose not to have Keye's replay the footage. The footage probably showed who the Forerunners were. Also, the ship Chief left in, that is not the Ark. If you read Conversations From Across the Universe, note that the second page (a letter from an archeologist to his wife) states that he found something in an area untouched by the Covenant. Hmmm... Earth was untouched by the Covenant for a long time. The area where they dug was classified, so it's obscure to us. But they found something that wasn't Covenant, and "was sealed like a TOMB". Could this possibly be a Forerunner installation on Earth? Maybe the Ark? As it seemed to be the destination of the Forerunner ship. Maybe that ship is a key to open the Ark. Remember, the last Prophet is never caught. He knew that the activation would fail, yet that there was a safeguard. The Ark in any form of Biblical text is an object of salvation, and again, the reference of the Flood being similar to the Great Flood Noah faced is probably a very good theory.
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You all are overanalyzing this a bit, I think. Yes, 343 Guilty Spark calls Spartan 117 the Reclaimer, as well as the Sergeant who failed to get the index. But I don't think it's required for a human to insert the index. The monitors obviously can't do it since they have no arms, or even mechanical appendages to manipulate objects with. The Covenant simply were unable to do it, they didn't have advanced AI such as Cortana to find out exactly where it was and how to use it. Theres no proff saying that Tartarus could NOT use the index. Think about the situation. Sergeant Johnson had a Beam rifle pointed at Tartarus' head. tartarus was holding 343 Guilty Spark in one hand, while restraining Miranda Keyes with the other. When it came time for him to insert the index, instead of prying it out of Miranda's grasp and putting it in himself, he used her for cover and shoved it in. If he hadn't used her as cover, Johnson undoubtedly would have killed him on the spot. As much as I want to resist the religious aspect of it, the Atlantis theory seems good. Very well explains the skull easter eggs.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Durahn You have to remember that if the rings were activated before the human and covie arival the flood would be dead. seeing as they ARE ALIVE how could the ring have been activated before?????[/quote] Okay guys seriously get your information straight -- the Halos aren't a big bomb. They *somehow* just kill all sentient life. The 7 Halos are scattered across the galaxy. When ONE goes off, they ALL go off, making the effective radius of the 7 Halo's HUGE. BUT THE HALOS DO NOT KILL THE FLOOD. THEY KILL THE FLOOD'S FOOD. They've gone off before, killing everything the Flood can host. Flood spores simply have the ability to stay dormant for millennia, which they have done ON the Halos. Quote: "some of them survived to reproduce" Understand this -- the Halo's aren't a big bomb. They don't destroy everything in their blast radius -- they use superior technology and somehow ONLY kill sentient lifeforms, which does NOT include the planets, stars, etc (or the Flood, who are an infectious virus, not sentient life)... in whose space the Halos exist. And about the yellow dot, it's pollen... or ash... just some dust flying around, don't worry about it. [Edited on 11/14/2004 9:16:04 PM]
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I said 25,000 light years not 25 million. and think about how big the universe is. and the rings werent ectivated because the flood ARE ALIVE ON THEM!!! IF THEY WERE activated they wouldnt be alive. In halo2 you have to listen. there are seven rings and they are SCATTERED throughout the universe. and halo 04 had a 25,000 light year radius. but because the flood are alive. well were before halo 04 was destroyed then the ring wasnt activated. think about it and read this!!! [Edited on 11/14/2004 8:54:19 PM]
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I'm sorry if this has been brought up before. I am not going to read every post in this thread right now. Why would the prophets be "hiding something"? Why would they wish to destroy humans? If we are the forerunner, and they know it. Wouldn't they, I don't know, bow down and worship us or something? Everything in you argument sounds very logical, except explain to me why they would want to exterminate us if we are indeed the Forerunner.
