At least they should have some sort of in-game chat or LFG system where you could add a member or two.

The simple fact for people that cry over the matchmaking is this you must be a person who doesn't want to join a clan or don't like communicating with others. I think this is great to make friends and to break the ice with other players I started a clan just for the raids and end game and that glass vault to, my number maybe short right now but in time they will grow the link above if you want to join and to other clans out there good luck have fun and see you star side 9/9/14.

I'm just going to paste what I've said earlier regarding this retarded mentality that seems to have taken hold around here, and because I'm not inclined to waste further time using logic and patience, to explain things to the deaf, dumb and blind who recycle the same rubbish which falls apart at the first application of cohesive thought. Ah, so typical elitist bull shit, nice to see that the PC MMO crap has migrated and now pollutes a new game with it's asinine stupidity. [u][b]Warning heavy sarcasm:[/b][/u] [b]Random people will be under equipped?[/b] Riiiiight so considering the raids are going to be endgame content it's almost a certainty they are going to be lvl locked more than likely lvl 20+ or until they complete the main game missions. If they are lvl 20 players, apparently Bungie is too stupid when it comes to designing their lvls to balance them so lvl 20 players can play them, is that what you're saying? Only the elite players can play them correct? Doesn't matter if I have a full Vanguard armor, legendary weapons earned and hit lvl 20, if you don't accept random people on your friends list who you've never met, talked to or played with you're just shit out of luck right? That's the situation that's being fostered. *slow clap* bravo, bravo. Edit: apparently raids are lvl locked until lvl25, thanks for correcting me. It just hammers the point home even more really. [b]But you can spend time organising and getting friends using the forums, raids are serious buzinuss guyz!. [/b] Yeah, because what this game needs is another bunch of elitist dicks who put walls in place when it comes to joining clans and a raiding becomes a mind numbing bore, about as futile as herding a group of cats. So Raids are restricted to the 1% of people who have enough time to organise their friends into groups a week in advance. Everyone else who has responsibilities or has made friends with people in other time zones, -blam!- them right? They're not dedicated enough to sit for 4 hours on a forum organising instead of playing the game, so they're not good enough. So the hell what if they paid for the game, filthy casuals I believe they're called right? Also we'll just ignore that this early into a console generation, this game is now going to be split across 4 different consoles, or the fact that numerous people have swapped console. The fragmentation of the user base is just a figment of our imagination. [b]MM can't be in it, or it needs to be easier and gear needs a nerf.[/b] Wow, I see the ego stroking is strong here. Aren't you the special snow flake? It's not as if numerous fire teams just need extras to fill in the gap. No one makes friends just by getting to know random people by playing with them before making a friend request. Clearly only the "best" deserve to be rewarded because they had enough time to waste organising blocks of time a month in advance, right? Everyone who plays raids without friends or without enough is just a scrub looking to be carried, it's not as if they're high lvl but don't have the option or inclination to trawl through forums to find a game. I'm just being silly right? Couldn't it be that there's no in game clan support, the tower only supports 16 players, there's no effective chat or social feature which would mitigate any of this. Naaaahhh. [b]People will complain and want it nerfed[/b] Yeah, because people don't do that already, with everything. Adding MM will instantly create that, where as if it's not there all the elite players can live in a Utopian fantasy where no one complains about difficulty. Tell me how that's worked in the past? [b] Designed so only elite teams can play, no scrubs allowed[/b] Oh, so unless people arbitrarily add random players and manually invite randoms to a raid they're morons clearly playing with their feet and drooling down the mic. If you manually make a squad of "friends" you're hardcore, if you invite random people manually you achieve the same result and end up being able to enter the "hardcore" lvl of play. Yet if you engage in MM, suddenly everyone is too stupid to play the game properly? Wow, what changed? Did everyone get a dose of stupid pills before entering MM? Considering the Raids are locked at lvl25, who exactly are these "noobs" who are going to cry out for nerfs because the content is too hard? No one is capable of picking up a mic? Did We all get lobotomies? And every one in MM can't organise a piss up in a brewery, even if they've run the raid various times and are all lvl 25+ and have high lvl equipment. I'm not the only one who realises how utterly stupid that line of thought is am I? Thanks, I thought other players doing end game content and packing high lvl gear were actually ready for a challenge. Silly me. It's not as if anyone ever talks on a mic, or asks if someone else has one. Glad we cleared that up. [b]But people will fail[/b] Really? Really? we're all so entitled the instant that players with hours and hours of play time, the best equipment and gear fail they'll pitch a fit. Have you played Dark Souls 1 and 2, possibly the most brutal game in the last 5 years. Clearly we're all masochists. yet neither of them punish you for wasting time on a forum to organise a game in the first place. Edit: Oh and one extra one, apparently if it wasn't designed with MM, it can't ever be rectified or corrected in light of data and feedback. God no. No other Co op mode/ raid game uses MM Oh except, Wow... and Payday 2 (the entire game is a series of bloody raids).. and League of Legends... My reserves of sarcasm and bile are running low for now, but I think that covers most of the daft arguments I've seen.

[url=http://www.inquisitr.com/1389786/destiny-raids-defended-by-bungie-designer-discusses-how-you-can-quit-and-return/]linky[/url] Found this posted 3 days ago. not sure if anyone else noticed this.

The issue isn't that alot of us DON'T want to put forth the time to do raids. Its that we CAN'T. I have a jobin which I work 60+ hours a week and a wife, real world obligation that cut my play time down alot. Why should raids only be for the no lifers who spend 10+ hours a day 7 days a week be the only people to play raids? Because that's how raids are in MMOs. I was an MMO player still play when I have time and nothing else I want to play. I have even become one of the best of my class and still get turned down for raids because I wasn't online 6 hours before hand. If you're in the same boat as me add me on PS4 xXNetCodeXx.

Lol does anyone play extinction on Cod? I've had so many horrible matchmaking experiences through it that I am ok with bungie nipping matchmaking from destiny raids. What they should do though... Is make the game more sociable via proximity chat or something. If you want players to socialize in order to team up for raids, facilitate the social aspect... Dancing and pointing can only do so much, and the ps4's UI makes it awkward to socialize with people outside of your friends list.

I hope they never cave in, WoW started catering to casuals back in WotLK, with the excuse of wanting everyone to see the content. The types of people they're catering to are fickle, they get it handed to them, then they move on to another game. Look at wow subs, they been slowly bleeding since the beginning of Cataclysm

No, catering to the will of the weeaboo gamers is how Ninja Gaiden became the piece of shit it is now. If they can't handle the difficulty, they shouldn''t phuck wit it. Simple as that. Build your crew, build your character, and summon your hitters when you all feel ready to face the pain. Dem Whinny-ass-bitch-ass-nikkas.

No matchmaking...I want a challenge...I want to be punished for losing and rewarded greatly for winning...September 9th needs to get here quick before the whining gets worse. Edit: If you do want matchmaking it doesn't necessarily mean you are lazy, but you definitely aren't committing to the raid and when your losses start stacking up cause of a bad teammate or bad connection then guess what? You'll be asking for a nerf because your randoms aren't good and you can't complete the raid. Play with friends or dont play at all...

A decade ago I would have been standing here agreeing with a lot of people saying not to add match making however times have changed a lot for me. Most of the kids here lack life perspective especially since many of them don't have many life responsibilities. They can dedicate many hours per week playing to get organized and find other people to raid with all at all hours of the day. Now I I swore I would never become a casual gamer for as long as I lived but life has now shown me that it is just not possible with a real job and a family to take care of. years ago I could easily put in 6 hours per day of gaming, now I get like 4 hours per week if I'm lucky. Match making is now a necessity because I can't spend any spare time trying to organize a raid in a video game. I just want to get online and be able to play and have fun without feeling like there are roadblocks limiting what and where I can play. So in the end I say bring on matchmaking for those who want or need it. There is nothing stopping the elitist from putting together their ultimate raiding team or forcing them to use the matchmaking system.

Sighs...my thoughts on the whole thing, the devs can say and harp on all they want, about these...raids...heh...raids...with 6 people...raids...really... anyway, they can harp on it all they want, but it will never be as difficult as they claim it to be, this is a FPS ffs, unless they make certain encounters where just like in your standard mmos, you gotta be at this spot, at this time, and you gotta have 95 percent accuracy and powerful enough gear, to shoot and bring down specific body parts or else he does some omega super nuke that will one shot everybody even if your behind cover, then I really dont see how it will at all be difficult. Skill will still play a factor, those using expensive 90-140 dollar PS4/Xbone Mouses will likely be sought after due to having a better skill curve because of the expensive hardware they use, but in all honesty, I mean, cmon, you can hardly call it a raid, 6 man? Thats the size of a single GROUP in games like FFXI, you super hardcore types are really setting yourself up for disappointment. Ill tell you whats gonna happen ok. Raids wont be as difficult as you'll think, obviously their will be some coordination and gear checks involved, but Bungie will eventually cave in and put in matchmaking if they wanna be able to keep making money from the majority off the future DLCs/expansions you gotta buy for more content. The Majority being the casual player. The Casual and semi-cores make up the majority, they always have dominant say in things, and Bungie will cater to them as long as it isnt stupid and unreasonable, and way I see it, Match-Making isnt unreasonable. Their are only a few online/mmos that catered to the hardcore and ignored the majority, I can name you two of them, they are, Wildstar, and Wizardry Online, look em up. Sighs, seriously, I know all of you are excited for the game, many of you super hardcore types wanna be special snowflakes but in the end, money talks, Bungie will listen to the Majority, or they will lose money, That simple. Get used to it, money talks. So its gonna have to go one of two ways. One, they add matchmaking for raids, or two, they add better ways to communicate with other players, clan chat system maybe, ways to have your chosen clan come up and showing a list of who is online, text chat in all areas of the game. They gotta add something, because right now it is really asinine to communicate in the game as it is right now. And before anyone cries bitch on the whole needing a keyboard thing, dont. You can go into a radio shack, or a bestbuy, or any electronic store, and buy a cheap 5-8 dollar friggen keyboard, plug that in and use it. I tried it myself, it does work, I use it when making messages to players on my consoles and to text chat in games that support keyboard chat. Its really not hard, please dont say something entitlement retard related like "Err well sorry but Destiny doesnt come with a keyboard, so that doesnt work for me" cuz that is just..dumb. Seriously, its just dumb.

You know that people will still be complaining that raids are too hard even though there's no MM, right? The only requirements to play a raid (as far as I'm aware) are that you reach level 25 and have 5 friends so there'll be plenty of thumbless retards who have ground their way to level 25, and have 5 equally terrible friends, who will be able to play raids and who will fail at them and then come crying to the forums about how hard it is. People are acting like raids are only available to people who are good at the game when they aren't. All having no MM does is mean that people who don't have 5 friends that play Destiny, or who don't have the time to find randoms to play with over the internet, won't be able to do raids when there's nothing to suggest (other than Bungie's hype) that people in that situation won't be perfectly capable of finishing a raid when grouped together with 5 strangers via MM. There's also no real difference between finding 5 randoms to play with on BNet (or via in-game chat) and finding them via a MM set-up. You still have no guarantee that the randoms will be any good and having no MM just means that you have to waste valuable time finding people to play with in the first place.