Sounds to me like what 'real raiders' want is just to push their opinion of 'how to play the game' on to other people. Matchmaking has nothing to do with you if you have the choice of not utilizing it. Those who would like the option, do not have that choice.

No matchmaking will make the raiding community stronger.

It has plenty to do with me if the lightweight gamers and Billy no mates want to introduce something to the game that waters down its content and trivialises the efforts that others are prepared to undertake, just like they did in WoW and look what happened there, WoW raiding is the laughing stock and pariah of the MMO community. No one is stopping you from playing the rest of the game either, but raiding is for those groups of people prepared to go the extra nine yards, not for the casual gamers who want 'teh win' button and EZ mode gaming.

I've already addressed this here: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/67151853/0/0/1 The act of implementing matchmaking, is simply the act of implementing matchmaking. Whatever assumptions you have of something happening after the fact, is entirely that, an assumption. It's fine that you want to justify your opinion, but assumptions have no place in a rational argument. [quote]but raiding is for those groups of people prepared to go the extra nine yards, not for the casual gamers who want 'teh win' button and EZ mode gaming.[/quote] The raid difficulty would be the same for everybody, depending on whichever difficulty they choose. There is no 'teh win' button. And allowing me the option of matchmaking with people who are not only my 'friend' is simply that, allowing me to matchmake with people who are not only my 'friend'. Nothing to do with anything else, except for when anything else is you making assumptions. :/

You have evidently never raided. Raiding is the REPEATED process of undertaking a hugely challenging quest or series of quests, which through iterations of trial and error you learn the appropriate strategies, with the same team, refining your equipment and technique until you finally solve your quest or quests. It is not the garbage of WoW where a large group of strangers Zerg a mob until it is dead, that is NOT raiding. So please explain how this PUG made through some form of matchmaking process, come together night after night to learn this process? Oh and to mix it up Bungies high level mobs look like they are dynamic so as your party and their gear change, so does the mobs tactics. The whole reason that Bungies raids are designed for friends groups and not PUG is that the party pretty much stays the same and so does the dynamic, which after wiping a lot you may learn. Now please stop asking for something that you evidently do not understand.

Sorry, Mushii, but both this and your post below this, combined, are not in direction to any point that I have made. All this is, is you using me as an outlet for your frustration. It goes something like this, first you need a reason to justify what you're about to say, and to lay a foundation to base it upon, so you create an assumption; 'you have evidently never raided' - where, in reality, I end-gamed World of Warcraft. Just by your own ignorance, you have invalidated the whole of your argument. But that's okay, because your argument was based on your state of frustration. Quite literally, every single aspect of your post after the assumption, is conjecture, more assumptions, and the projection of your experiences from one aspect of your life to some other aspect of our life, and again, making assumptions that they are the same. Not only that, but you also throw in your own reason as to Bungie's decision making and affirm it as their reasoning. You're telling me to stop asking for something I do not understand, but in doing this, you are asking something of me, that you do not understand. It is hypocrisy at it's finest, but the sad part is that you probably won't even see it. [quote]So what works for one group is likely to be totally useless for another. [/quote] If true, then the raid is different for everybody. And if the raid is different for everybody, what determines success is the individuals which comprise the teams, not whether they were comprised by 'matchmaking', not whether they were comprised by 'forum', not whether they were comprised by 'friend list', and not whether they were comprised by 'clan'. [quote]So once again please explain how your PUGs are going to work in this environment?[/quote] In the same way that any other group of individuals would work in the environment; as individual human beings, with the capacity for objectivity, rational thought, critical thinking, and logic.

So to answer my question, you have NO experience of raiding whatsoever. I Thought so. As my momma told me, never argue with an idiot, they will reduce you to their level then beat you with experience. I shoulda listened to her. Ciao.

[quote]So to answer my question, you have NO experience of raiding whatsoever. I Thought so. [/quote] [i]"I end-gamed World of Warcraft"[/i] - me in my last post to you. You're an odd person, and you seem to argue out of pride more than anything, which is sad, but whatever. See you in-game, Guardian. :)