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Edited by Andus Blood:
6/28/2014 11:09:33 AM
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Some guardian skills are broken / unreliable?
Overload - Hits with Storm Fist have a chance to immediately reset its cooldown.
Discharge - Hits with Storm Fist have a chance to deal area of effect damage around the target.
“a chance to” (a chance for this skill to work) is a big problem. No other classes we've seen have this %/luck based cooldown
It means sometimes it will work sometimes it won't, it makes the skill unreliable.
A guardian will never use a weapon that sometimes will work.
imagine: you press a button and maybe something will happen.
putting “a chance to” in a skill based game in my opinion is a bad idea
"a chance to" should be removed from combat: all guns, skills, armour, etc.
imagine pvp
one player is a titan and decides: a few punches to the face will get the job done,
with "a chance to", depending an a roll of dice sometimes he will win, sometimes he will loose, should he blame himself ? or the skill that's unreliable ?
Is it ok to have a gun that has a chance to shoot?
Why is it ok to have a skill that has a chance to work?
What do You think about this guardians ?
Yes. "a chance to" is bad, and skill has to be reworked
No. It should stay as it is. (random chance)
You have a better idea and you will share it below :)
Id like my battles to be won by my skill, not a roll of dice.
bonus damage or cooldown should be reward for your skill not luck
This is me asking bungie to rework the skills, so we can remove random "a chance to" from combat
Is it fair to loose to someone because they were lucky with their dice roll even if you're a better player?
It can be reworked with some play testing. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency in a strongly melee/close combat focused class:)
Edit:
Clarification : I do not want removal of cooldown, I just want a random % chance removed ( and substituted with a different mechanic), as I see it as unreliable. And changed to maybe % of cooldown recharge, so for example few standard hits = 100% recharge so I can plan ahead.
Example: you used your power fist, waited for some time and now you have it 80% charged. Now you KNOW that you need to hit/kill someone and have it at full power.
So for example you would hit 2 dregs and then when its fully recharged go for the captain, or hit the captain 3 times, knowing the the 3rd hit will be more powerful,. So you can evaluate situation and act deliberately, Instead of hoping that your skill will randomly recharge as it is now.
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9 RepliesIf you plan on it not happening and it does, what are the negative effects? None, actually. A melee kill in PvP takes 2 hits. Whether Storm Fist is on Cooldown or not. If you plan for a kill to take 2 hits, it won't matter if Storm First resets its cooldown and you hit with it twice. Also in a melee between 2 players, the fight probably won't last long enough for the AoE to actually effect the outcome. So even if the other guy manages to hit you with a Storm First twice, it wouldn't matter because the result would be the same as if the other guy hits you with 2 regular melee attacks, you die. In PvP, the % chance effect will be negligible in my opinion. Melee encounters occur too rapidly and the way the melee damage works, the proc doesn't actually effect the outcome. In your scenario, the balance of the melee abilities would actually be incredibly skewed, especially if it allowed for 1-shot melee kills. A player who supercharges their melee would have an advantage in a fight with another player. Whereas in the current system, no one actually has an advantage. In terms of PvE, the only thing that will come out of these proc are advantages for the player. The AI isn't on equal footing as the player and the balance between the two isn't sought after like it is for PvP. Right now, the only class I see that has a melee ability advantage is the Hunter because they have the ability to use it at range.
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Human Hunter
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1 ReplyI personally prefer a bit of randomness in my systems. :) It's not always fun if I know ALL the outcomes.
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It [i]is[/i] only the alpha ya know
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I guess if you want to feel like halo 3 you don't want chances in anything. Halo 3 you had the spawns down the timing for weapons and you had to act destiny is different maybe it'll be a good different but hopefully the we will know the chances to.
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2 RepliesAll the supers have their pros and cons i think it helps make it fair
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3 RepliesI completely agree. I also think a lot of people are missing the point of this post. Abilities with "a chance" (RNG) for added effects, opens the door for the potential for less skilled players to beat players they otherwise wouldn't be able to beat. The game, as far as I can tell, has been marketed as a skill-based game. RNG mechanics sound counter-intuitive to that.
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6 RepliesEdited by X9 SHOTGUN 9X: 6/28/2014 9:30:35 PMKeep in mind that this game isnt like your typical MP based arena type game. Destiny is [b]heavily[/b] based on PvE and such abilities are something common with these games. Look at it as a risk, the results could be good or bad, there is skill in succeding if it doesnt work and it is just easier if it works.
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6 RepliesIt's probably a timing thing. Check out ffxi skill chains and magic bursts
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5 RepliesEdited by SirTheProper: 6/28/2014 7:48:43 PMI can see the merits of what you are saying, but I understand the value of %to happen. Many others have mentioned plan for the base be surprised with the extra. That is a fair statement too. I think a better system would be if the attack would superchage. This could be done a number of different ways. Don't use the skill for a certain period of time past the cooldown and it supercharges. That gives you the option of waiting and holding on to it for special occasions. Have it so it procs after another effect or the meter is contributed to by something else. For instance if skill is off cooldown, and you kill something with a super or grenade your super melee is powered up. Now as far as the percent chance to reset cooldown. That should remain exclusively as a percentage based thing. But I think there is a lot of room for a more skill based system/energy based systems that works along side a percent chance. You wait, supercharge your melee, and then you proc an instant recharge and can use it right away again. That sounds fun dynamic and the best of both worlds.
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No, leave it as is and if you don't like an added bonus possibility then don't use said upgrades/ skills.
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Welcome to the world of RNG. There is more to it than that but I'll leave it alone and let you experience the beta to see rather than listen for now.
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1 ReplyIt doesn't work like that. It's a risk reward type of thing. The skill works regardless but there's a chance for you to get an added effect. We didn't even have access to these skills during the alpha so calling these skills unreliable without testing is wrong on your part. Also, changing the skills to the way you want them would make them broken which is supposedly something you don't want. Anyway if you really don't like "chance to" just pick the illuminated skill. Every kill with Storm Fist starts health regen.
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14 Replies[quote]Is it ok to have a gun that has a chance to shoot?[/quote] Apparently in Battlefield.
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3 RepliesEdited by GalaxySpider: 6/28/2014 11:14:55 AMYou missed the point entirely. Theses skills are just added bonuses. It's not that the Storm Fist's first hit is random or so. The skill works as always and sometimes you will get a nice bonus and sometimes not. What's the problem when the main skill still works as intended? Also the recharge skill bonus isn't a problem either. It's a BONUS, not something you should rely(!) on. If you do, then of course, you think these skills are guaranteed...they aren't. Even without the instant recharge you are NOT in a disadvantage compared to others classes. Making that stuff guaranteed would really break these skills if the other two classes don't get the same to compensate these two. And that would be pointless IMO. Giving the skill a % to add a bonus allows for higher damage because it is not guaranteed, therefore "nerfing" that now would require lowering the damage output. Why would you want that?
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1 ReplyIKR!? Give me a guarantee, but balance it with a fair increased cooldown.
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Edited by Shadow: 6/28/2014 4:11:01 AMI didnt even read it not even one sentance and yet I still kniw everything you wrote is BS LOL
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2 RepliesThe skill works no matter what... It is the extras that have the chance to happen... They are called bonuses for a reason. And they are part of what makes it exciting and fun!
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6 RepliesYou've obviously never played an RPG before
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1 ReplyNo. The underlying action, the Super or the melee, definitely happen and the damage they deal is set. So, you should use them knowing that you'll do that damage but have a chance to get a nice little bonus. Basically... don't rely on the extra bonuses, use them for their set damage. If someone gets a bonus that adds damage on you, then.. it sucks, but luck/chance is all part of the game and you'll most likely get that bonus against another guy later on.
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40 RepliesNot too familiar with MMO mechanics are you? Use the abilities for their base value, not their bonus's. If everything was 100% bungie would be limited with how our guardians' abilities could be or they would be overpowered if not watered down to arcade style play, which lacks variety. This is not an arcade game.
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5 RepliesEdited by SPQR Soul3vans: 6/27/2014 10:11:56 PMI think you're wrong. Because gambling on a % is fun and exciting. Destiny is all about fun. You don't like having to take risks in the game? Pick a different skill. But don't try to take away my fun because you weren't ballsy enough to take a chance. Edit: I do however wish there was a visible number. As much as I like to just fly by the seat of my pants I at least like to know if it's going to work more or less often i.e. 30% vs 60%.
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1 Reply[i]"a chance to" [/i] Oh god its skyrim all over again. I know the target audience are casuals, but come on, we should be smart enough to understand percentages.
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7 RepliesNo, the 'chance to' is one of the RPGMMO elements they have decided to implement after extensive testing (same chance for everyone = still skill based because equal playing field) an indication of the percent chance would be nice though so you can guess the frequency that it will work. I don't like your alternate idea because it ruins the magical excitement of the ability, your melee will still punch, it just has a chance of continuing to be more powerful with consecutive strikes, somewhat like a chance for elemental effects on a weapon.
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1 ReplyI will bump this thread so often I want bungie to know we like numbers not meaningless words.
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5 RepliesEdited by Tibbaryllis2: 6/27/2014 9:28:20 PMI agree that, at the very least, Bungie needs to follow the lead of Diablo 3 where you had the option of casual skill descriptions (a chance to) and detailed skill descriptions (10% chance ). Id also like to know how the proc chance is calculated. I.e. If your melee has a 25% chance to reset the melee cooldown can you reliably expect it to proc every 4 hits on average or more? If it takes, on average, 5+ hits to proc then I'd say that skill is pretty worthless in PvP and you'd have to be a Leeroy in PvE to get your money's worth out of it. Of course with any percent chance you have a chance to immediately proc or you get hung out for a while, but a reliable average should emerge.
