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Edited by burritosenior:
6/22/2014 5:58:36 AM
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Using games Call of Duty and The Division as an example of IPs that have timed exclusive content is ridiculous, and completely ignores the historical significance of this particular example. You'll notice people don't complain nearly as much about those games having such content, if at all. Now why do you suppose that is? Well, I'll tell you. It's because the developers for those titles didn't create a market on a particular platform. For this video to claim that the fact that Bungie developed exclusively for the Xbox is irrelevant shows a complete disregard to the historical significance of this problem as well. I don't know if this person is new to the community or what, but that is wholly disrespectful to make such a statement as that.
Halo was THE Xbox game. It revolutionized the FPS genre in multiple ways, and cultivated a fanbase both around Halo and, more specifically, around Bungie. When Halo 3 released, it was on the Xbox 360. There were actually many people that followed Bungie to the console because they put out great products- not just people that followed Halo. Therefore, while switching to Playstation as a focus for their content, they are essentially forgetting about those people that followed them in the past, who developed a decade's worth of friendships and experiences on another platform largely due to Bungie.
I've said this before and I'll say it again- nobody was complaining about Bungie including the Playstation with Destiny. Fans on the forums were actually PLEASED, because it meant Bungie was growing and would have a larger fanbase. The issue is that they aren't being treated equally- they're being treated BETTER. And after a decade of giving your all to Bungie as a fan of the company instead of the game, that is a very hard pill to swallow. Xbox fans were not asking for exclusive content because of their history with Bungie. Xbox fans were expecting equality.
This video goes on to talk about how it is a good business decision. And from a money standpoint, it is... for Sony. And Activision. Not Bungie. And I don't understand how anybody could possibly say 'because it made them more money as a business decision, it is not a betrayal.' Excuse me? That's absolutely idiotic to say! Since when does profit determine morality? I'll tell you when: Since never.
Insomniac games making games for Playstation then making an Xbone exclusive? Yeah, that sucks. But guess what? That doesn't suddenly make it acceptable or make it any less of a betrayal that a completely different company is doing nearly the same thing. Again, a really stupid thing to imply otherwise. Later, he goes on to say he would request Sunset Overdrive were only on playstation, but doesn't because he is a 'rational human being.' To which I reply... an ignorant one. This, my friends, is a classic example of somebody only hearing what they want to hear. You see, this user seems to be completely ignoring the fact that Xbox users are NOT asking that Destiny be exclusive to the Xbox One. They are NOT asking that they be given exclusive content instead. What Xbox users ARE asking for is that everybody be given the SAME content. And for this video to say that such talk is irrational? This seems like a very ignorant and close-minded person.
Edit: Please note that 5 hours later, this subthread has far too many replies for me to get to everybody. Too many people are replying to random posts and Bungie.net's layout is not conductive of a large discussion. Since notifications only link me to the most recent reply, it is very likely I will miss a lot of you because the subthread is too long and too confusing to scroll through, now. Apologies to those I seemingly ignore.
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Neither of us is budging on this, so I will just continue to think that your selfish and deluded, and you can think I'm ignorant and whatever else.
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Edited by burritosenior: 6/22/2014 1:27:09 AM[quote]Neither of us is budging on this, so I will just continue to think that your selfish and deluded, [/quote]Choosing ignorance is a deluded choice, and refusing to make yourself aware of the opposing viewpoint is ignorance.
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Edited by sergeantawesome: 6/22/2014 1:39:15 AMI can understand just being upset if it was not timed content, and it was some type of significant content i.e. hour of extra story or 6 maps that would never come to the other systems. Saying Bungie turned its back on "loyal fans" is just tinfoil hat conspiracy theory crap. All it is, is just timed exclusive content that even those of us are getting, aren't going to be using it for long at all anyway. And, you get all of it a year later anyways. I cannot logically see your side of that argument because I cannot see how you and others put those pieces together that they are turning their backs on you. Its laughable. And if Bungie did "turn their backs " on anyone, its the PC gamers, because of right now, there is no PC version of Destiny. They would be foolish to cry betrayal, and they have more of a reason to do that than you.
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I don't get upset at bungie, but I understand this guy's argument. So yea...say it's timed content..and Xbox gets it a year later... What happens if once Xbox gets Sony left overs Sony gets a fresh plate of new content for a whole year while Xbox waits another year? I got a ps4. I just made the switch because over and over I kept hearing PlayStation was gonna get better this or that. So I got it...and the content we are getting isn't game breaking...but burrito isn't really talking on the content itself more like the moral of the whole issue here. How deej casually says" they're getting a copy of the game too" meanwhile all that other stuffs going on. I don't believe anyone's argument will change anything..but how I see it...what's funny is how bungie does go on and on to say how Much the community inspired them...they implement game features, change what wasn't liked, hear good ideas....try them out over and over you hear these historical references to the community.. What community do you think they're talking about? Its not the new Destiny community. This new community is barely going to start contributing to the cause. Those early references are for the old community. That played halo and helped shape halo to what it was, some of them even ended up working at bungie. So it's about the moral..,I mean...if I were a bungie employee and wanted to end this bickering..I'd just come out and say it man no matter how it sounds, give the old community some closure over it. I'm an old fan as well, I don't nearly care about the issue as much as others since I feel powerless to aid in anyone's fight but I do see people's points. The term sell out comes to mind. If that's how it is that's how it is man. Nothing more nothing less...they do still get a game at least...But the sting of new content will be there every year for them. Funny how it can start a console war on a game released for both consoles even... I'm not trying to badger you here, just trying to maybe get through the moral of the story and why some people are upset over it.
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You make some good sense. I can understand being upset. But I think betrayal is too extreme of a word to use. There are so many outside factors to this that it cannot be said for certain. They are running a business, Sony is running a business and managed to "woo" Bungie. If Bungie is at the Sony conference, of course they are not going to talk about Xbox. Maybe Sony offered up a lot of money to get some content. Bungie could have given PS owners some exclusive maps and missions that would never make it to the Xbox 360 or Xbone. I think also that the community you speak of consists of quite a few PS players, I know I had Xbox, Xbox 360, along with PlayStation, PlayStation 2 and Playstation 3. To me it just feels like Bungie realised that Sony is a great company, probably wanted to move in the same direction Sony was going, and still wanted to keep their Xbox fans as well instead of completely jumping ship and singling them out. Who knows, they might have gone more with the exclusives, but I hear timed exclusive, I don't get excited, nor upset whatever side I am on.
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Edited by Pheint3d: 6/22/2014 5:53:42 AMYea the community members that made the switch. Not all of them did though. Even some that made the switch are part of the argument. I've heard theories on why bungie did it. But all they are Is theories, Maybe bungie didn't liked that MS was using tv media as a sell point and that's why they went to Sony, which no one knows for sure probably. But you make a point that validates what I said, Business. Say that bungie did what they did from a business stand point. That's called selling out. Doing something for a profitable gain despite what fans think. Its a big term used in the music business. Which are different obviously, but both have respective fan bases. So I said if that's all there was to it, just give the fans closure. Xbox owners are still going to buy the game regardless. At least most of them, but at least settle their nerves by admitting a reason. Betrayal...to powerful of a word...I couldn't say man. Everyone feels different about a situation and we all use words we think express how we feel. The best analogy I had was the sell out term. Its like a metal underground band that's getting noticed on that scene and sounds brutal. They got a religious fan base at every show. Suddenly they get an offer. to change parts of their music but gain a place on the radio with a bigger audience. Old fans say the band sold out. Abandoned them and betrayed them for a profit. Even changed their music...they aren't who they used to be anymore and lost respect for them. In reality, the band needs to survive, and had a potential for a bigger fan base. They could only hope their past loyal fans can see why they did it. They had no choice in the action tied to the deal. Like bungies exclusive thing with the Sony deal. The big picture is that the band would need to address it to their old fans. They are the ones who gained them their popularity. People noticed the cool shirts, the word of mouth speak of a really dope band. People were walking ads for a band wanting to gain a place in the music industry so The least the band could do is address them. -Edit, Noel showed me thay what I referenced Is a fact, not a theory. Didn't check that article out prior to writing this.
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Edited by LegendInTraining: 6/22/2014 5:41:29 AM... Just cuz u said no one knows for sure [spoiler]no hate[/spoiler]
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Thanks. My bad. So much stuff gets thrown around here sometimes idk if it's just an opinion. I used that reference cause it sounded most reasonable. Thanks for showing me it's an actual fact. No wonder the controller got upgraded man. Prior to buying a ps4 I was all worried about playing destiny with it. [spoiler]don't trip potato chip [/spoiler]
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Its cool
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Edited the ending of my post. Gave you props broski
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Thanks...hope the info helps later on
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That article explains a lot. But the whole ordeal with exclusives Is more of moral thing than anything. I don't think anything would helps that argument. Those feelings for some will just have to fade away eventually hopefully
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Edited by LegendInTraining: 6/22/2014 6:20:27 AMIf they make a sequel I'm pretty sure it will be same...if you have a dog and you want to save a dog on the side of the road(save =attract) you would give it more treats than you would your normal dog to attract it but things will get equal after a bit,..it would suck if your dog said " how come that bitch get more treats -blam!-in backstabbin ass hoe"...again .if they do make a sequel it will be equal from day 1
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Isn't it a 10 year contract tho? Harsh analogy but I get you lol
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Edited by LegendInTraining: 6/22/2014 6:18:56 AMWith Sony? I don't think so[spoiler]probably[/spoiler]
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Knowing a little about business though, Bungie may not have had a choice to "sell out." Especially if it meant getting their game, their vision, out to as many people as possible. Trying to convince shareholders to keep stock in the company sometimes requires doing things you may not be comfortable doing, but you do it anyway to reach that end goal. IF Bungie "sold out," it was to keep their overall dream alive, at the cost of making the people giving them money happy. And are they going to blame the shareholders? No, that would be bad business as well. If Bungie did not make a deal like the one they made with Sony, that could have hurt Destiny all together. And Metallica did NOT sell out.
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Edited by Pheint3d: 6/22/2014 2:44:33 AMYou make a lot of sense. The word sell out is an expression that does hold a lot of baggage in it. When you get right down to businesses, you get the epitome of a sell out. What you described is selling out. Sometimes we don't have a choice, exactly how you said it man. We only do what is necessary to accomplish our dreams. Sometimes even if it's something we may not be proud of. Metallica you say? I know that band. I totally know how to play all the solos from St. Anger bro. [spoiler]hahaha Just messin man[/spoiler]
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[quote]I can understand just being upset if it was not timed content, and it was some type of significant content i.e. hour of extra story or 6 maps that would never come to the other systems. Saying Bungie turned its back on "loyal fans" is just tinfoil hat conspiracy theory crap. [/quote]And right there we see the flaw in everything you've said. What you just said is: [quote] 'I have drawn an arbitrary line unique to myself that decides what I find acceptable and what I do not, regardless of the logic involved. Anybody that does not agree with where I drew my imaginary line is deluded regardless of the logic presented to me, nor the time gone into forming their arguments that I refuse to read. If somebody says Bungie betrayed them and they are on that side of my imaginary line unique to me, then they have no logic. If they take one step to the right of my line though, they are right to use that exact same logic solely because that is what I personally deem acceptable even though that same logic applies in every way imaginable to the other side of the line as well.'[/quote] ... No, it is not a 'conspiracy' that Bungie turned its back on their fans. I provided you a link with five word document pages- single spaced (for those of you in college, that means a 10 page analysis on the topic)- worth of history that explains why everything you just said is wrong. [quote] And, you get all of it a year later anyways. [/quote] ... Surely you don't expect anybody to take you seriously if your response is 'someday you will be treated equally so you should not be saying you want to be treated equally.' Do you SERIOUSLY consider yourself the logical one here? It must be nice living in that cave, then. :/[quote] I cannot logically see your side of that argument because I cannot see how you and others put those pieces together that they are turning their backs on you.[/quote] If you're provided with evidence then close your eyes and ears and go 'lalalala,' you do not get to say you cannot see the logic. [quote] Its laughable.[/quote]No, it isn't. In the slightest. And to say that shows how close minded you are being.
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Edited by sergeantawesome: 6/22/2014 1:50:55 AMHow about you take what I said for what it is and stop running off the deep end with it. You are great at making a mountain out of a molehill. You have not presented any facts or evidence. Just your opinion on the ones that exist by twisting them into what works for you.
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[quote]ou have not presented any facts. Just your opinion on the ones that exist by twisting them into what works for you.[/quote]... I've presented you with literally pages upon pages of facts. Again, that you are refusing to read because it upsets your own narrow worldview does not only do you no justice, but shows the entire argument by yourself and this video to be inherently flawed and ignorant as well.
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So, did Rare "betray" Nintendo? Did Square Enix "betray Nintendo?" Did Insomniac betray Sony? They can make Sunset Drive exclusive to Xbox, because that's what they want to do and what fits best for their business. They have the opportunity to keep an IP instead of handing it over all rights to Sony, and they do that by going to Microsoft. I played all the Resistance games, am I mad? Do I feel betrayed? -blam!- no. Its called business. I hope it works out for them, they are a great company.
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[quote]So, did Rare "betray" Nintendo? [/quote]Had you taken the time to read my link on the Mac, you would know that this does not apply in the slightest. [quote] Did Square Enix "betray Nintendo?"[/quote]Square Enix developers exclusives games, but for every platform. They have never, since their founding, been developing for a single platform. Their first five games released were on four different platforms.[quote] Did Insomniac betray Sony?[/quote]What is it with you and refusing to read?: [quote]Insomniac games making games for Playstation then making an Xbone exclusive? Yeah, that sucks. But guess what? That doesn't suddenly make it acceptable or make it any less of a betrayal that a completely different company is doing nearly the same thing. Again, a really stupid thing to imply otherwise. Later, he goes on to say he would request Sunset Overdrive were only on playstation, but doesn't because he is a 'rational human being.' To which I reply... an ignorant one. [/quote] [quote] They can make Sunset Drive exclusive to Xbox, because that's what they want to do and what fits best for their business.[/quote]Again: [quote] This video goes on to talk about how it is a good business decision. And from a money standpoint, it is... for Sony. And Activision. Not Bungie. And I don't understand how anybody could possibly say 'because it made them more money as a business decision, it is not a betrayal.' Excuse me? That's absolutely idiotic to say! Since when does profit determine morality? I'll tell you when: Since never.[/quote] [quote] They have the opportunity to keep an IP instead of handing it over all rights to Sony, and they do that by going to Microsoft. [/quote]I don't even know what you're trying to imply here.
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Edited by sergeantawesome: 6/22/2014 2:27:31 AMWhere is this video, I have not seen a link. Post it here. And I know Rare was bought out by MS, that is not a betrayal, but Square packed up and left Nintendo for a long time when PlayStation came out. And Insomniac games pretty much did "worse" than Bungie. So I think its a very valid argument. But I have absolutely no reason to get upset over it. Insomniac games wanted to create a completely different game, but wanted to retain all the rights to it. They went to Sony first, and Sony said they wanted the rights to it, so Insomniac said "see ya," and found what they were looking for with Microsoft. I am implying that Insomniac wanted something, they got it, at the cost of their "community / fans," which I would say sounds worse and something to get upset over, but there still is no reason to feel betrayed from that either.
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Edited by burritosenior: 6/22/2014 2:33:50 AMThe video is the one in the first post. I quoted my reply because I already addressed your comment, which you apparently did not read. I was not talking about Rare being bought by MS. I never brought that up. In addition, Square Enix was still a multiconsole developer. There is not a single year since they were made that they have not put out at least one Nintendo game. I do not think you have a grasp of the facts. And Insomniac? Still sucks. But still does not make it any better that Bungie does it in any way.
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We can continue this tomorrow.
