All I know is those of us who played Halo way before loadouts and AA's came into existence are dying out. I still play Halo 3 online (just did this Sunday night in fact) and you can always tell the new players who never experienced raw skill arena games like Halo 1-3 before. They look lost and can't keep up with the fact there are no gimmicks or crutches to save them. They are the players that love to scream 'adapt' in Reach/Halo 4 yet they are the ones who truly can't adapt when Halo 3 essentially tells you as a player "start with this weapon, good luck and deal with it!". There are no weapons that will spawn at your feet after getting some points, no respawns where you can choose a different loadout, no armor abilities or mods that do work for you. No, it's all you buddy and if you can't handle the pressure against good players you get what you deserve: no EXP, a loss, skill deranks, and a terrible k/d. Feels bad? Good. It's made to make the player strive to play better, not get a pad on the back when they do poorly. Not fun? Well thats what the social playlists were for. Everyone won, both competitive and casual gamers alike. Competitive could play ranked while casual could just have fun in social. Sadly we've lost this. Games no longer offer a competitive side and are slowly divulging into one big sloppy soup pile where everything feel the same with minor difference in flavor.All I know is I am glad to have been around in Halo's prime. So many great moments and the skill rankig systems of the past were legendary and excellent. I never faced such good competition and had epic matches as before. Nowadays I'm just steamrolling through the masses in Reach and 4 watching them rage quit one by one .... so boring.

I miss Rainbow Six Vegas. That game took skill.

I love winning in call of duty when people are at max level. Real skill is being good with the "bad" weapons. I get what you're saying but my k/d is always 1.5 or more in cod or bf or halo (mostly cuz I got no life) and I always prestige to play from the beginning if that's an option

I actually think on map weapons and vehicles are too easy to obtain and give you an immediate advantage. In theory the "players who play more and get more kills get more rewards" seems like a better system than "first come first serve".

[qoute] This is why I dont like Halo 4, Destiny, Cod, far cry anymore... [qoute] Lol we've all played destiny right.

I like arena shooters too, but it's not like they still don't exist.

Halo has been mediocre since Reach, and so has CoD since MW3. The "everyone wins" socialist mindset is turning competitive games into boring linear nightmares with no differential factor.

So? Does that mean people who do enjoy them shouldn't be allowed to play? I mean, if people like something, it works. Loadouts n'shit are popular, Halo 3 style is not. Why make something which not many people would want, when you could do something people do want?

I agree 100%. But its the way the world is headed. Companies don't want to hurt your self esteem, so they get rid of ranking systems, give you camo and power weapons with ease, and hide your K/D so you never have to look at how shitty it is.

[quote]Remember when owning noobs took skill?[/quote]Owning noobs never took skill... That's why they're noobs. It takes skill to kill skilled players. [quote]Since cod4 all it takes to kill noobs is to grind to a high level and unluck good weapons.[/quote]A skilled player can hold their own with any weapon.[quote]I don't like winning because my weapon is better or losing because I'm not level 50.[/quote]That doesn't happen. You win when you're better than other players, and you lose when you're not.[quote]Remember when multiplayer games where fair and winning took skill?[/quote]Yesterday? Yes, I remember yesterday.

I have to say that I also like load-out style shooters less than classic area style ones. The load-outs have too many variables to ever make the game truly balanced or fair whereas the arena style always has every player on a level playing field.

Games use progression systems to make people grind their shitty multiplayer. That's the only reason anybody would lock content away from players. When a credit-system is used to buy things, that's a little better but I still want all of the content at rank 1. You want people to continue playing multiplayer over time? Add cosmetics. Armor, skins, etc. Stuff that doesn't determine skill in the slightest.

Honestly, I will never play a competitive fps again as long as it has a progression system. I bought the damn game I should have access to everything without having to jump through hoops to get it. I have always preferred a game that has everything available to the player from the get go, everything on the maps. And the things that distinguished new players from old players, was not what unlocks they had but the map knowledge and knowledge of game mechanics that the older players have.