{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
11/26/2007 8:32:06 PM
261
Ogre 2 Shares his Thoughts on Halo 3
For those of you who don't know, Ogre 2 is an MLG (Major League Gaming) pro who is in the clan "Final Boss"; currently the #1 clan.
To summarize the interview:
"MLG: After playing three seasons of Halo 2, what’s it like to switch over to Halo 3? What elements are similar to Halo 2? Which are different?"
[quote]Ogre 2: To be honest, Halo 3 isn’t a whole lot different from Halo 2. When I played the Halo 3 beta, [i][b]I felt like the game was "incomplete"[/b][/i], the movements all felt awkward and stuff. It’s kind of hard to explain, but anyway, I was hoping that was just because it was the beta, but now the real thing came out and [i][b]the multiplayer is identical to the way it was in the beta[/b][/i].
For example, there is less auto aim, but at the same time [i][b]the hit-boxes are messed up pretty badly[/b][/i]. I don't know if you’ve noticed this, but [i][b]the hit-boxes for the body are huge[/b][/i], and you can hit guys with the sniper while not even aiming on them, like by shooting past their arms. Head shots aren’t really harder to get, it’s just that you have to aim above the guys head instead of actually on his head. There are just a bunch of little things like that that make it feel like [i][b]it's incomplete to me[/b][/i].[/quote]
"MLG: Maybe similar to how Halo 2 was before the patch?" (i.e Is Halo 3 similar to how Halo 2 was before the patch? [see: "bad"])
[quote]Ogre 2: Similar, but [i][b]even worse[/b][/i] I’d say.[/quote]
"MLG: Do you find reduction in lunge to be a positive thing?"
[quote]Ogre 2: Reduction in lunge is good.[/quote]
"MLG: What are your favorite elements of Halo 3?"
[quote]Ogre 2: I enjoy the reduction in auto-aim. That is pretty much the only thing about Halo 3 that I greatly prefer over Halo 2. Actually being able to be down a few shots, and turn around and out BR somebody is a great feeling. Other than that, there are many things about Halo 3 that I don’t mind, but there really isn’t anything else that I’m absolutely loving, other than the fact that it’s something new to play.[/quote]
"MLG: What is your favorite weapon?"
[quote]Ogre 2: Oh, my favorite weapon as always is the sniper rifle. It was in Halo 1, Halo 2, and, of course, Halo 3.[/quote]
"MLG: Beam or Human?"
[quote]Ogre 2: Human. It’s a lot more difficult to use, just because of the reduction in auto aim and the [i][b]weird hitboxes[/b][/i], but I still love it, because once again it's the most skilled weapon. I don’t know, [though], I haven’t really used the beam in anything except campaign. (laughs)[/quote]
*The Interview is actually much longer and continues with Ghostayame, another MLG pro. The full interview can be read [url=http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/168824&query=node/168824&pagenumber=]here[/url].
*As an interesting side note, Ogre 2 commented on Halo 3's hitboxes being much larger, while later on in the interview, Ghostayame says that they are much smaller. This, I believe, is a testament to the inconsistency of the game.
[quote]Ghostayame: I cannot stand the current melee system.[/quote]
[Edited on 11.26.2007 12:38 PM PST]
-
Anyone who doesn't have Live can't be as good as people in the tournaments. That's about true 99.99% of the time. No ones going to get better by continuously playing against the neighbors. And if you people even knew anything about MLG, you would understand people great at MLG are even greater in default settings. Understand that BRs will -blam!- ARs [and all of the above] any day. Also, the amount of teamwork exhibited in MLG is unheard of anywhere else.
-
Just because he wins a few tournaments doesn't mean he is the best in the world.....just the best one that goes to those tournaments. I don't know much about MLG cause we don't have that here in Australia, but from what I read they only play a certain way with certain rules. To me that defeats the purpose of the Halo series. It's been designed so you can change it and have a huge amount of variations in gaming. So he's the best at a playing within MLG rules, so what?? There's a lot more people outside of MLG than inside it so to call him the best in the world is a bit much for me. It's hard for us aussies to play x-box live (i don't play much cause I don't have internet connection at my place at the moment) against the US and europe guys because of our crappy connections so we're at a disadvantage from the outset. I'd like to see some of the "better" players in the world, these so called "pro's" and play them over here, why should we have to always go over there to at least have a chance?? any way, there are soooo many awesome players down here i'm sure we could kick most peoples butts. Any other aussies here by the way? i'll be getting x-box live soon at my new place
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] invalidKarma How could an MLG Pro's opinion possibly matter more than the average player? MLG doesn't even tap into half of what Halo 3 offers. [i]No equipment? Half the weapons gone? [b]Vehicles??[/b] [/i] They're only playing half the game. Perhaps less. Their version of Halo is everyone BRing each other till world's end. So quit saying "shut up they know more about Halo than you do". How can that be true when they only play half the game? [/quote] Are you implying that you can whoop MLG pros in default MatchMaking settings? I'd like to see that. You [i]don't[/i] even [url=http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/CareerStats.aspx?player=invalidkarma]kill more than you die[/url]. Ahahahahahah! Example of a lot of people having a lot to learn but just not listening but instead arguing. So lemme say this, "shut up, they know more about Halo than you'll ever know". [Edited on 11.28.2007 12:46 PM PST]
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shifty05 I actually feel that I am better at Halo3 than I was at Halo2. But I still feel that Halo3 has deficiencies in some aspects of it's gameplay. I bought Halo2 the night it was released and played it until Halo3 came out. Look at my gamertag! I played a thousand plus games on halo2 and was only ranked at 19 when i stopped playing. Now compare the fact that I havent even hit 100 ranked games yet but I am a 23! You don't make a game better by making it easier. Although it's a great way to sell more units. but I care about Halo3's longevity, I want to be able to play it for 2 or 3 more years. Do you honestly believe without tweaking to the current gameplay that's possible?[/quote] H3 isn't 'easier', it's only easier to level up so high 40s don't look so bleak like back with H2. The levels, 1 - 50, are just distributed better. So just 'cause people have a higher level than from H2 [i]doesn't[/i] necessarily mean they got better. People get better by (and many might disagree with the first one) using the BR effectively and making it top priority (along with power weapons), learning new strategies and adapting, and better communication and teamwork - [i]NOT[/i] purchasing the latest addition to a trilogy. That being said, I'm sure even though Ogre 2 hasn't played H3 as much as everybody else ('cause he's busy making money with something else), he'll still whoop all of us in H3. Now I wish I bookmarked his latest gamertag. Three full pages of LoneWolves all (save one) 1st place.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x I see no reason that he should [i]not[/i] have the validity of his opinions scrutinized. If you do, please enlighten us.[/quote] I don't see how this has "gone over my head," though now I forgot what we were even arguing about. I thought we were arguing why his, Ogre 2's, opinion would have more weight than everybody else's? I do believe everyones opinions [i]should[/i] be scrutinized. But I also believe we should take the opinion of a person who is much more acquainted with a particular subject significantly more than others more seriously. I am in no way trying to worship Ogre 2 and don't think I was worshiping him. It's only fact that he's the best Halo player in the world and can make a living playing this FPS. Obviously he know's the intricacies of this game more indepthly than your average early level 30 H3 player. Isn't the ability to whoop anybody and everybody enough credentials?
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KING GHUTA Ogre 2 does play video games for a living, specifically Halo 2. However, that alone does not make his opinion worth more or more accurate than the rest, it remains an opinion. Furthermore, I believe, that his opinion is tainted by the fact that Halo 2 is his life and has been for more than two years. There are many people frusterated with Halo 3 when compared to Halo 2 and I will not begin to break down the many arguments. What everyone needs to take into consideration is that tournament play and recreational play are two totally different things. Vastly different! If you played Halo 2 and thought you pwned, chances are you hate Halo 3 beacuse there are too many tools for nubs to kill you with (needler, mauler, etc.) Bottome line: Halo 2 = better design for pro gamers and all those posers. Halo 3 = more fun for the recreational gamers. Stop confusing the two in these forums.[/quote] I actually feel that I am better at Halo3 than I was at Halo2. But I still feel that Halo3 has deficiencies in some aspects of it's gameplay. I bought Halo2 the night it was released and played it until Halo3 came out. Look at my gamertag! I played a thousand plus games on halo2 and was only ranked at 19 when i stopped playing. Now compare the fact that I havent even hit 100 ranked games yet but I am a 23! You don't make a game better by making it easier. Although it's a great way to sell more units. but I care about Halo3's longevity, I want to be able to play it for 2 or 3 more years. Do you honestly believe without tweaking to the current gameplay that's possible?
-
Ogre 2 does play video games for a living, specifically Halo 2. However, that alone does not make his opinion worth more or more accurate than the rest, it remains an opinion. Furthermore, I believe, that his opinion is tainted by the fact that Halo 2 is his life and has been for more than two years. There are many people frusterated with Halo 3 when compared to Halo 2 and I will not begin to break down the many arguments. What everyone needs to take into consideration is that tournament play and recreational play are two totally different things. Vastly different! If you played Halo 2 and thought you pwned, chances are you hate Halo 3 beacuse there are too many tools for nubs to kill you with (needler, mauler, etc.) Bottome line: Halo 2 = better design for pro gamers and all those posers. Halo 3 = more fun for the recreational gamers. Stop confusing the two in these forums.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] invalidKarma How could an MLG Pro's opinion possibly matter more than the average player? MLG doesn't even tap into half of what Halo 3 offers. [i]No equipment? Half the weapons gone? [b]Vehicles??[/b] [/i] They're only playing half the game. Perhaps less. Their version of Halo is everyone BRing each other till world's end. So quit saying "shut up they know more about Halo than you do". How can that be true when they only play half the game? [/quote] Nobody is talking about weapon selection or vehicles. Orge2's comments that matter pertain to the hit boxes and melee/lunging. He is pointing out a slight deficiency there, specifically with the hit boxes and head shots. If you have played Halo3 enough you will have noticed it yourself. You are bringing in an argument that is relevant to Orge2's comments. [Edited on 11.28.2007 9:11 AM PST]
-
How could an MLG Pro's opinion possibly matter more than the average player? MLG doesn't even tap into half of what Halo 3 offers. [i]No equipment? Half the weapons gone? [b]Vehicles??[/b] [/i] They're only playing half the game. Perhaps less. Their version of Halo is everyone BRing each other till world's end. So quit saying "shut up they know more about Halo than you do". How can that be true when they only play half the game?
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ShadowzKiller I do agree that a patch is needed, but right now it is 10000x better off than Halo 2 ever was.[/quote] right now i'd say they are both the same as halo 2 was pre-patch. i just dont think bungie is going to do a lot to fix things as they did for halo 2. bungie almost seems proud of the way this multiplayer turned out, which is a bit sickening.
-
I would say his opinion matters do a degree, but not to the point that none of ours are "meaningless". He does have tons of experience and has studied how the game works-gameplay, weapons, melee, etc.-and has played all three games for a long time. I would consider him quite knowledgeable, but an expert? Maybe. Many of you guys need to remember that opinions of experts and other people are the same as everyone else, except that have been studying one particular thing longer, and have many years of experience, which Ogre 2 has-even though it is a video game. I do agree that a patch is needed, but right now it is 10000x better off than Halo 2 ever was.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] aerosprtn good point its sorta like saying that maybe you wanna run a buisness, would you rather take adice from a CEO(the pro) or the hobo on the side of the street(random kid).[/quote] The CEO is Bungie since they are the ones who amde the game, like Ogre 2 has allready stated... he has played barely any Halo 3 because he is playing HAlo 2 for MLG, so his opinion is invalid on any issues in halo 3. The Casual gamers are Bungiers core audience ebcause the casual group make up for well over 50% of Halo 3's online population, if the casuals go, then Bungie will no longer support Halo 3 and make matchmaking playlist updates. Bungie is aware of most of Halo 3's issues, but expect them to be fixed.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BadJMan [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] scottymate [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x -snip- [/quote] I personally enjoy hearing the opinions of "the pros" over average players. None is more valid than the other, but pros are pros for a reason. Their talent is finding strengths and weaknesses in all aspects of the game. Their career depends upon it. The pros tend to be at the cutting edge of new play styles and strategies far more than an average group of players. These strategies then filter down through the community and end up becoming the norm. There are those that will happily play the game oblivious to its flaws and continue to play the game the way they always have. Then there are those who innovate, recognize the faults and learn to counter them. In the competitive arena it's essential to stay ahead of the competition and requires intimate knowledge of the intricacies of the game. It's THIS reason that people look to the pros for issues of balance and gameplay flaws/strengths. Perhaps to the designers, the opinions of pros over average players is a non-sequitur. To the players that play the game, and want to play it well, the pros knowledge is a good place to start. Most of the players here want to be as good as pros, and that’s why their opinion carries more weight. Thank you.[/quote] Well, wasn't that a breath of fresh air. Fellow bungie.netters, take note. This is a good post. e.[/quote] yup, people need to read it again.
-
there are multiple interviews up on mlg's site. majority of all the pros consider halo 3 a bit worse than halo 2, but hope that with forge and with time the game can improve. all of them are happy to play it because its something new, and they were getting tired of halo 2. oh, and for the guy above do you really think people "worship" his opinion because he is "famous" ? get real.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BadJMan to Foman 123, you may say that your personal argument you are carrying on with some people in this thread went over my head - but not the discussion this thread actually contains. Once more, I see no [i]good[/i] reason whatsoever that it is necessary to participate in a thread like this simply to discredit the guy's opinion. There's only one sort of motivation for that behaviour and it's not a noble one. If you aren't interested in what some guy thinks more power to you. But, many more people are, so it is worthwhile.[/quote]Excuse me, perhaps you get a special version of Bungie.net and saw something I didn't, but it seems to me that the original poster selectively quoted Ogre 2 and then proceeded to highlight all of Ogre 2's opinions that stated or insinuated that Halo 3 is bad. The original post contained no commentary whatsoever -- all "commentary" was made in the form of suggestion via emphasizing the arguments that the original poster was hoping would be validated by the fact that Ogre 2 was making them. To hammer it in, the OP prefaced his post with a recitation of Ogre 2's "credentials." If you see my attack on the validity of Ogre 2's opinion as a "personal argument," as opposed to your "public argument," and believe that this thread contains an intelligent and rational discussion of whether Halo 3's hitboxes and melee are flawed, then you seem, once again, to be somewhat dazed. My discreditation of Ogre 2's opinion was not motivated by anything other than a general dislike for worshipping somebody's opinion based on largely irrelevant fame. I'm not sure what you're implying my motivation was, but then again, I don't think that you're sure either. This may surprise you, but I agree 100% with the last sentence of your post. But at the same time, I do not see this as a reason not to espouse my own opinion about the validity of a celebrity's. It's not like I was attacking the validity of some poor private poster who just wanted to make his voice heard. Ogre 2 gave a public interview -- remember that we are talking about a professional player who allows himself to appear on television, gives public interviews, and plays Halo not for fun, but rather in order to gain money, fame and respect. I see no reason that he should [i]not[/i] have the validity of his opinions scrutinized. If you do, please enlighten us.
-
WORT WORT WORT!
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] scottymate [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x -snip- [/quote] I personally enjoy hearing the opinions of "the pros" over average players. None is more valid than the other, but pros are pros for a reason. Their talent is finding strengths and weaknesses in all aspects of the game. Their career depends upon it. The pros tend to be at the cutting edge of new play styles and strategies far more than an average group of players. These strategies then filter down through the community and end up becoming the norm. There are those that will happily play the game oblivious to its flaws and continue to play the game the way they always have. Then there are those who innovate, recognize the faults and learn to counter them. In the competitive arena it's essential to stay ahead of the competition and requires intimate knowledge of the intricacies of the game. It's THIS reason that people look to the pros for issues of balance and gameplay flaws/strengths. Perhaps to the designers, the opinions of pros over average players is a non-sequitur. To the players that play the game, and want to play it well, the pros knowledge is a good place to start. Most of the players here want to be as good as pros, and that’s why their opinion carries more weight. Thank you.[/quote] Well, wasn't that a breath of fresh air. Fellow bungie.netters, take note. This is a good post. And to Foman 123, you may say that your personal argument you are carrying on with some people in this thread went over my head - but not the discussion this thread actually contains. Once more, I see no [i]good[/i] reason whatsoever that it is necessary to participate in a thread like this simply to discredit the guy's opinion. There's only one sort of motivation for that behaviour and it's not a noble one. If you aren't interested in what some guy thinks more power to you. But, many more people are, so it is worthwhile.
-
I already read the article on the MLG website when it came out but I have no idea how idiotic people can be. Meh
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BadJMan [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrMerc Man Sir Why is everybody scared to acknowledge Ogre 2 (and a lot of the other MLG pros) are better than us? Most of the poster here aren't even above 40, maybe even 35.[/quote] People here are bitter and resentful of the respect that a well-known player like that gets from certain quarters. There are a number of bungie.net regulars in this thread who are basically sticking their oar in for no good reason and getting defensive over nothing. They are pretty much riled up by the suggestion of superiority of this guy over them - [i]even though nobody made this suggestion.[/i] I'm not a supporter of MLG, I just find it very easy to see why the opinion of someone who makes a living playing the game and is widely regarded to be one of the world's best at it is of some interest to many people. What we're seeing here is the bitter and immature side of the 'anti-mlg' faction, which I'm happy to concede is at least a change from the arrogant and immature side of the 'pro-mlg' faction. In short, you can just drop the acronym MLG and at least one bungie.net member will flame you for it. They're almost as sad as the pathetic MLG hangers-on who give that little scene such a bad name in the first place.[/quote][quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Webby111 Wow you kids talking crap about ogre 2 have no idea. Tom has been the MVP of 2005, 2006 and 2007 he has never placed worse than 2rd in 4v4 since Walshy has been on their team. He has a million dollar contract just with MLG, he has won World Cyber Games tournaments and more. There are tons of fake accounts on XBL atm. The chances are you would have never played against him, if you are somewhat decent you might have played a few customs with him or something and it could even be possible to beat him but consistency is where it matters and if you did have the skills to beat Ogre 2 in 1 game (1 game means nothing) you wouldnt talk crap about him as you know how good he really is. Ogre 1 and Ogre 2 have never been defeated in 2v2 tournament play. They recently won Las Vegas without losing a single game. They have won millions playing Halo. Walshy even owns his own clothing company. Anyway if you have done more than them just through playing Halo then that might give you the right to say something. Otherwise your just jelous there 100x better than you ever will be. [/quote] lol The entire purpose of the discussion went over all three of your heads, unfortunately. MrMercMan, it's been going over your head all day. Sadly, it's far too late and tiresome to explain it to any or all of you. [Edited on 11.28.2007 2:05 AM PST]
-
Wow you kids talking crap about ogre 2 have no idea. Tom has been the MVP of 2005, 2006 and 2007 he has never placed worse than 2rd in 4v4 since Walshy has been on their team. He has a million dollar contract just with MLG, he has won World Cyber Games tournaments and more. There are tons of fake accounts on XBL atm. The chances are you would have never played against him, if you are somewhat decent you might have played a few customs with him or something and it could even be possible to beat him but consistency is where it matters and if you did have the skills to beat Ogre 2 in 1 game (1 game means nothing) you wouldnt talk crap about him as you know how good he really is. Ogre 1 and Ogre 2 have never been defeated in 2v2 tournament play. They recently won Las Vegas without losing a single game. They have won millions playing Halo. Walshy even owns his own clothing company. Anyway if you have done more than them just through playing Halo then that might give you the right to say something. Otherwise your just jelous there 100x better than you ever will be. [Edited on 11.28.2007 2:03 AM PST]
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrMerc Man Sir Why is everybody scared to acknowledge Ogre 2 (and a lot of the other MLG pros) are better than us? Most of the poster here aren't even above 40, maybe even 35.[/quote] People here are bitter and resentful of the respect that a well-known player like that gets from certain quarters. There are a number of bungie.net regulars in this thread who are basically sticking their oar in for no good reason and getting defensive over nothing. They are pretty much riled up by the suggestion of superiority of this guy over them - [i]even though nobody made this suggestion.[/i] I'm not a supporter of MLG, I just find it very easy to see why the opinion of someone who makes a living playing the game and is widely regarded to be one of the world's best at it is of some interest to many people. What we're seeing here is the bitter and immature side of the 'anti-mlg' faction, which I'm happy to concede is at least a change from the arrogant and immature side of the 'pro-mlg' faction. In short, you can just drop the acronym MLG and at least one bungie.net member will flame you for it. They're almost as sad as the pathetic MLG hangers-on who give that little scene such a bad name in the first place.
-
Why is everybody scared to acknowledge Ogre 2 (and a lot of the other MLG pros) are better than us? Most of the poster here aren't even above 40, maybe even 35.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shkpa [quote]Ogre 2 is an MLG (Major League Gaming) pro[/quote] That automaticly makes his opinions not matter to most of the bungie comunity. [/quote] because most of the bungie community doesn't have the slightest clue on how to play this game on his level.
-
ha I knew it wasnt just me getting headshots by aiming a little bit above their head!!!
-
[quote]Ogre 2 is an MLG (Major League Gaming) pro[/quote] That automaticly makes his opinions not matter to most of the bungie comunity.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x Who cares? Why does Ogre 2's opinion carry any more weight than the rest of us? Did he somehow pay more for the game than I did?[/quote] -blam!- yeah! QFT!
