[b]I am NOT an employee of Bungie nor one of Microsoft, and my views and opinions do not necessarily reflect those of either of the aforementioned entities.
Also, thanks for sticking this Bungie, I hope it is useful.[/b]
There is one caveat to consider before we get under weigh. Bungie is not likely, nor or ever, to release the true inner workings of the Halo 3 ranking system, but as it is based somewhat on the Microsoft Trueskill system, this is a fair approximation of the way skill ranking works in Halo 3.
[quote][i][b]What is the Trueskill system?[/b][/i][/quote]
The Trueskill system is a player skill rating system for Xbox Live. Halo 3 uses a version of the Trueskill system in order to make the matches fairly even.
[quote][i][b]How Does Trueskill Work?[/b][/i][/quote]
Trueskill assigns skills on a normal distribution (bell curve, Gaussian). The Trueskill system has two main variables to consider. They are your player skill level ([b]Mu[/b]) and your uncertainty factor ([b]Sigma[/b]).
[b]Mu[/b] is an approximation of your skill level based upon past performance. Win games to raise Mu, and lose games to lower Mu.
[b]Sigma[/b] is the numerical representation of the range in which your [i]true[/i] skill could lie. Play really consistently, and you have a low Sigma. Play streakily, and you have a higher Sigma.
After a win, the Trueskill system adjusts your skill ranking based upon the Mu and Sigma of all the players in the game. We'll go deeper into [i]how much[/i] it is adjusted later.
Trueskill systems use a conservative ranking [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] so your skill is likely to be higher than the actual number represented in your Halo 3 highest skill level. K is a constant assigned an arbitrary value by the developers of the game.
[quote][i][b]Why don't I level up after winning X games in a row? / Why does my friend go up three levels a game and I don't?[/b][/i][/quote]
Mu increases after a win. Always. [b]The increase is proportional to the winner's Sigma and the Mu difference between the winner and the loser.[/b] So, if your Sigma is high, you will proceed faster through the ranking system (in BOTH directions). If your Sigma is low, you will both gain and lose rank more slowly.
[quote][i][b]So, I want a high Sigma value?[/b][/i][/quote]
While it sounds as though a high Sigma value is desirable, it CAN be a double edged sword. A high Sigma can mean you increase by one level for every win. It also means you decrease by one level for every loss. In addition, a high Sigma means that your skill ranking will be significantly lower than your actual skill owing to the conservative nature of the [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] ranking equation.
Also, Sigma value starts out VERY high. So, if this is your friend's first time in a particular ranked hopper, and he wins consistently, his rank will rise meteorically due to his high Sigma.
[quote][i][b]Myth Busting[/b][/i][/quote]
Trueskill DOES NOT take into evaluation performances inside the game. The ONLY statistics that Trueskill takes from a game are the Mu and Sigma values of all the players, and how you placed.
This means that out of all of these statistics:
Getting the MVP
Having a High K/D ratio
Getting the most medals
Skill levels of those you killed / killed you
Weapons you used
Headshots
Captures, detonations, stops, ousts, etc.
NONE of them matter when calculating the Mu increase/decrease. Any link between any of these and the skill ratings are purely correlative and not causative.
For example. When I play Team Slayer with my buddies on my alternate gamertag, much of the time I end up carrying the team. I created this tag to play with my buddies, and as such, have only ever played on that party with that tag. I ranked up to the level of my friends within 20 or so games, while it had taken them 50 to 100 games to reach their level. My friends thought that it was because of my frequent MVP status and my high K/D ratio that I leveled up so fast.
Wrong. I leveled up fast because [b]A)[/b] I initially had a very high Sigma, making my Mu more variable after each win, [b]B)[/b] Starting out at a 1 and playing people in the mid teens gave me a considerable boost every time I won, and [b]C)[/b] We won more frequently than they had in the past.
[quote][i][b]Summation[/b][/i][/quote]
If you're worried that you're not getting your fair shake in the ranking system, look at the last 50 games that you've played in that hopper. (If you haven't played 50 games, play more. The system needs more data.)
Take your win/loss average. If it's 65% or above, and you've been in that playlist for a while, you've probably increased in level 2 or more times over the last 50 games (or you will in the next 20 or so). Otherwise you are going to be hovering around the same level or dropping in rank.
[quote][i][b]Addendum, Opinion, and Technical Notes[/b][/i][/quote]
In strict Trueskill systems, Sigma only decreases. I believe the "momentum" system in Halo 3 means that Sigma can be increased through consistent winning or losing. This is total conjecture, but I think that Sigma in Halo 3 matchmaking hoppers is proportional to the absolute value of the win/loss ratio of your last X number of games. The formula probably looks a little like: [b]Sigma = C ( | wins - losses | )[/b] where C is an arbitrary constant. This would explain why when some people go on a win streak with two or more different parties, their skill goes up faster than their teammates' skill.
I also believe that the system is weighted so that the peak of the normal distribution is around level 20, not level 25. That means it will take more wins to level through 1-25 than it will 25-50. Which makes a bit of sense, if you don't want the highest levels too terribly crowded.
[b]The higher the Sigma of your opponents, the less Mu you gain from beating them.[/b]
Predictable outcomes (e.g. win against a lower ranked opponent) are treated as statistically less significant. Upsets are given more weight. So, winning against lower ranked opponents doesn't do much for your Mu rating. Neither does losing against higher ranked ones. But beat a team that's 6 or more ranks above you and at least someone on your team will rank up.
Trueskill ratings have no discernable correlation from hopper to hopper. When you play on a hopper you've never played on before, you are starting with a fresh Mu and a high Sigma.
Team Mu and Team Sigma are the summation of the Mu and Sigma values of all the players on the team. When calculating the skill of an opponent in a team game, the system uses the Team Mu and Team Sigma values in calculation wherever rational.
*Removed equations for space. They can be found in the link below.*
[url=http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/Details.aspx#How_to_Update_Skills]The rest of the equations and a less Halo 3 centric analysis of the Trueskill system can be found here.[/url]
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[b]Important additions, Appendices, and Member Questions Answered[/b]
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[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14457003]In-depth response to a post LoveNub made later in this thread. Should clear things up for some.[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/createpost.aspx?postID=14504550]More data analyzed, and a request for help with research[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14451163&postRepeater1-p=4#14471689]Kudos to Jay120171 for finding the post detailing the Mixed Party Bug in matchmaking.[/url]
[quote][i][b]"Why do I win 10 games and not level up, then delevel when I lose 2? Help!"[/b][/i][/quote]
There are several possible explanations for this. The easiest one, and the one that fits the Trueskill system EXACTLY as explained by Microsoft, is that losing against a team that is X (I believe 6 or more, but experimentation is needed to determine the true value) skill points below you can cause you to lose as much as [b]5 times[/b] the Mu value that winning against even level teams gains you. Of course, winning against a team that has X [i]more[/i] skill levels than you can net you as much as 5 times the Mu gain. The reverse is true as well. Winning against a weak team can count as little as 1/5th of an even skill win.
Second, and this is enlightened conjecture, your Sigma value was low at the beginning of your streak, and since your win streak is raising it, the conservative ranking system (Remember, Rank = Mu MINUS (K times Sigma)) is kicking in to reduce your apparent skill level. Your real Mu is higher, but your higher Sigma is having a negative impact.
[quote][b]mo0vaf00 writes:[/b] (edited to clarify intent)
So is there some kind of value that requires you to be inconsistent to rank up? If I win 1 game going even and win the next going +10 do I have more of a chance of ranking up than just winning 2 games getting the same score?[/quote]
This conclusion is popping up fairly frequently. The answer is no. The system does not look at "In Match" statistics. At all. These stats are all included in a list above. The game only looks at your wins and your losses, and the strength of the opponents you play against.
Also, the system does not "reward" you for having a high Sigma value. There is ONE positive associated with high Sigma, and there are TWO negatives.
Positive: Your level can move up faster through winning.
Negative: Your level can move down faster through losing.
Negative: The conservative ranking system ranks you lower when your Sigma is higher.
Higher Sigma simply means your level is more fluid. Sigma is good to have high when you are still reaching your appropriate skill level, but good to have low once you've reached it and are working on improving.
[Edited on 11.24.2007 11:54 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Y0uthinasia why don't you just say "If you're stuck at one level, try doing this, or this"? that's be way more helpful[/quote]If you're stuck at one level, try winning consistently against equally or higher skilled opponents without playing in a mixed party or with only the same teammates. It's only on every other page in this thread but that's OK.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I GodlySkills I ok made a new 1 month account and i have played 117 games and i am having trouble leveling up i seem to be getting stuck on every level idk whats he prob we win everygame like 50 to 5 and i dont understand y we arent lvling up aster seeing how the teams we are playing cant compete with us so do i have to startlosing in order to level up like i should ex. i am a 11 in TS and i have played 50 something gamesand havent lost yet the same is hapening with the 3 friends i am playing with WHATS GOING ON[/quote]What is your GT?
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why don't you just say "If you're stuck at one level, try doing this, or this"? that's be way more helpful
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Thought I would just update you all on how I am doing. I got very frustrated with Team Slayer and Team Doubles, so I thought I'd try Lone Wolf. I found I level up frequently in Lone Wolves and I have finally achieved the skill of 35. Now I can play doubles with my friend and not be frustrated about my skill not rising fast enough until I need to get to 40, haha. I still find this a little funny because I played players all lower than me and won oddball. I had 50 next person had 31. I went up two ranks. I then played people whom were 38-41 when I was 34 and won, didn't go up, then I played again and won, then again and then I got my 35. Oh well, I got it, now to get it in doubles!
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If anyone who works for bungie sees this will you please send me a personal message, i have a serious problem to address (not dealing with you guys at all i swear)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Regggie Noble alright i have a question that i should be able to think through myself, but im confused so here goes im currently on a hot streak in team dbls, leveling up almost every game so if i go cold on something like lone wolves or team slayer, would that decrease my sigma? or my mu?? thanks[/quote] Sigma is on a per playlist basis. Playing LW's or TS won't do anything to your doubles issue. If you are undefeated in doubles...yeah your sigma will start to decrease rapidly. If you have already lost before, your sigma should have been dropping slowly regardless. Once you start losing a little you won't be ranking up every game. MU goes up if you win MU goes down if you lose Sigma goes down every game (in 99.9% of cases)
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ok made a new 1 month account and i have played 117 games and i am having trouble leveling up i seem to be getting stuck on every level idk whats he prob we win everygame like 50 to 5 and i dont understand y we arent lvling up aster seeing how the teams we are playing cant compete with us so do i have to startlosing in order to level up like i should ex. i am a 11 in TS and i have played 50 something gamesand havent lost yet the same is hapening with the 3 friends i am playing with WHATS GOING ON
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alright i have a question that i should be able to think through myself, but im confused so here goes im currently on a hot streak in team dbls, leveling up almost every game so if i go cold on something like lone wolves or team slayer, would that decrease my sigma? or my mu?? thanks
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A lot of people, ahhhhhhh let's start advertising! JOIN MY GROUP :) [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/153302/Group/GroupHome.aspx]text[/url] (ok, this is spam...) [Edited on 01.28.2008 2:27 PM PST]
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this is the answer to the ranking system. see you guys just need to be awesome at halo 3 like me. Ya sure it takes a billion games to level up, but if you don't lose like me, you eventually will level up. Ya I get pissed when i don't level after winning 20+ games but the answer is...win more games. That's why i have a 50 in team slayer and team doubles and currently working on my 50 in lone wolves...If anyone needs help getting boosted up send me a message i like doing charity work.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BORNforDEATH Very well written. All I need to do now is get up to level 25 and it's smooth sailing. SHA NAH NAH!!!!!!![/quote] That average is taken from all the different playlists, so most people have low ranks in isolated playlists like land control, team objective, etc. It gets progressively harder because the skill of players gets better and better. Just because there's more people in a lower skilled playlist doesn't mean that its harder to rank up.
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Is something with the ranking system screwed up right now??? I have like 70 total games played, I just won 25+ games in a row at level 26 and 28. No one on our party leveled up at all except for 1 game we all moved up 2 levels. Glitched??? Will we all suddenly move up like 10 levels or something?
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I changed my mind the ranking system sucks [Edited on 01.27.2008 7:28 PM PST]
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I am sick of this firggen game and everything that friggen goes with it. What the hell Bungie? What's with this fugging game? Lets list off every part of it that is total and complete fugging -blam!-. 1) The ranking system. It is total BS. Total BS. I level up slower than my friend, go down faster. I get all the kills and always go fugging positive until this game gets on my nerves so much because it is complete BS. Do something about it. Make it like Halo 2 where all the fugging little brats that are 50's (this doesn't apply to everyone) can only get to level 10. They get their 50 because of fugging people like me helping them up there and I get BSed because my rank refuses to go up but will go down. I am facing the fugging higher people and it is BS that my friend gained 20 levels and I have gained 4 since we started playing together. You can shove it up your ass Bungie. This is -blam!- horrible. Make a fair friggen game, do something useful for once. As of now, this game is no FUN. It is not competive, -blam!- up number one. There are wayy too many BS things that happen, -blam!- up number two and the ranking system is BS, -blam!- up numero tres. Stop making these fugging -blam!- mappacks and actually fix the existing games. You should be deleteing some maps rather than friggen adding more. Epitaph? That -blam!- is horrible. I have never seen such a worse map that promotes camping. For all you smart asses that say you should be able to kill campers if you are so good, screw you. You result to camping because you can't win fair and square. Halo 2 wasn't like this crap that you call the "upgraded" version. Sure. a new patch is coming, it better fix everything or Halo 3 is going to go down the hole very fast. I would speed it up Bungie, get off your fat asses and do something helpful to the community. You have a 39 page thread of complaints about the damn ranking system don't tell me this crap is working. Don't give me that crap. It is broken. Melee system is also screwed up. Good, you are "looking" for something to improve on in the AU Patch, hopefully it will be good. You ruined a third of the game if it isn't. Third of all is respawning. Is it just me or does everyone else get these lucky respawns which saves his/her partners lives due to them respawning and killing the person? Me and my partner NEVER get respawned next or ever near to eachother unless the other team is on the other side of the friggen map. How come we get screwed and the other team profits? And the best part is, we still win most of the time despite these damn campers, which have no skill, and despite the fugged up melee system which screws us oh so much. The odds are against us and we are still winning unless it is complete BS. I can only say once have I been beaten by a better team. Once. The other teams whom win win off of that fugged up game that you created with all the little stupid problems that come along with it. Why Bungie? Why? My friend went up 20 levels and I have gone up 4. I am going positive. I am kicking teams butts. What the hell else do you want? This is soo screwed up and I am sick of it. I would like a ban from these stupid forums so I don't result to coming on these forums anymore. Thank you for you help.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mahbalss I read a post by one of the mods about trueskill and he said " if at some point you get better at hitting headshots then you could see a significant increase in rank" but you just said it doesn't take that into account. Can you explain to me why he would have said that? By the way i can't actually find the original post but it was in a thread where someone was complaining about never ranking up and winning all the time or something stupid like that[/quote]He means that if you got better you would be more likely to win and therefore would rank up faster. I believe it was a post by Frankie about how TrueSkill weighs recent games more heavily in your rank than older games.
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I read a post by one of the mods about trueskill and he said " if at some point you get better at hitting headshots then you could see a significant increase in rank" but you just said it doesn't take that into account. Can you explain to me why he would have said that? By the way i can't actually find the original post but it was in a thread where someone was complaining about never ranking up and winning all the time or something stupid like that
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I've been wondering why i go up levels faster than my friends, must be cos i don't play that often. Cheers
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jay120171 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baaaaaaaaaaaaah Jay, maybe I have been wrong on this fundamental issue all along, but I thought Bungie tweaked True Skill to consider 1st - 3rd place in LW's equally as a win (for both EXP and MU purposes)? Was I wrong and they used their base model for it? If so, this makes Lone Wolves a considerably harder playlist to rank up in, considering how often random aspects of the game would cost you the difference ebtween 1st and 3rd place. I could have swore I saw multiple statements confirming what I thought, and not related to EXP only.[/quote]I know they do for EXP but I am not sure about skill levels. I assume 3&4 was a draw if all skill levels are equal and coming in 3rd is technically not a "win". So, for 1st through 3rd it is possible to gain skill if you are the lowest and predicted to come in 6th. That is where the whole skill levels of your opponents and your predicted outcome comes in to play. If I am wrong, please point me to the info or let me know because I am not aware if Bungie altered this. FFA is where TrueSkill does the best because it isn't dealing with a party or teams. [/quote] I'l look around and try to find where I thought I got this info. It makes sense that 3rd behaves as a win one way or the other though...you beat 3 people and lose to 2. I swore It was in an ElKafungis post, but possibly not in this thread and possibly over at MLG forums.
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I have a question...I was playing doubles with my friend (I'm a 33, he's a 1), and we lost a match but his skill level went up! How does this work now?
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I was wondering why i was finding it impossible to break away from rank 19, thanks for the info.
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Thank you! very informative. I have seen alot of recruits who are mocked because of their low grade. But they werent actually noobs, they just left the game at the wrong time. Keep the info coming
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baaaaaaaaaaaaah Jay, maybe I have been wrong on this fundamental issue all along, but I thought Bungie tweaked True Skill to consider 1st - 3rd place in LW's equally as a win (for both EXP and MU purposes)? Was I wrong and they used their base model for it? If so, this makes Lone Wolves a considerably harder playlist to rank up in, considering how often random aspects of the game would cost you the difference ebtween 1st and 3rd place. I could have swore I saw multiple statements confirming what I thought, and not related to EXP only.[/quote]I know they do for EXP but I am not sure about skill levels. I assume 3&4 was a draw if all skill levels are equal and coming in 3rd is technically not a "win". So, for 1st through 3rd it is possible to gain skill if you are the lowest and predicted to come in 6th. That is where the whole skill levels of your opponents and your predicted outcome comes in to play. If I am wrong, please point me to the info or let me know because I am not aware if Bungie altered this. FFA is where TrueSkill does the best because it isn't dealing with a party or teams. [Edited on 01.27.2008 7:28 AM PST]
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omg ty alot this has helped me alot
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Phyrexian Rath Is the system broken? You tell me (36 total games, 35 wins, average over 20 kills per game and im only level 21) http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/CareerStats.aspx?player=Phyrexian%20Rath[/quote] you are ranking up after every win or every other win. how much faster do you think you should rank up? also, the worth of the system is not to only be measured by how quickly or super quickly it allows vets playing on new accounts to rank up, it is how it deals with accounts of all kinds for YEARS. when you have an account with an established history and where you have leveled out, please post a link to show us how the rank system is inaccurate.
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halo 3's ranking system sucks, if you lose a game and go down a rank it takes you 5 games to get it up, my friend once won 21 games IN A ROW and didnt even go up a single level. then today when i was playing with him he started at 42, lost ONE game and went down to 40. Also, how can you call it "true skill" when it doesnt take your K/D ratio into account? we once lost a game and i went +12 and i still went down a rank.
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Thank you for posting this. I started to think the ranking system for this game was ridiculously bad and I almost stopped playig Halo since it was getting me so mad. Now that I know how it works I am glad that I kept playing the game.