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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Atlas Unchained: 4/15/2013 4:19:15 AM
45

Real Day/Night Cycles

Alright, bear with me for a moment. [b]Fact 1:[/b] Day/Night cycles are nothing new to the video game industry. But most games have a shortened cycle to make sure the player isn't spending 10 hours of play time in the dark. Notable games with a day/night cycle are Minecraft, Skyrim, the Assassin's Creed series, and the Far Cry series. [b]Fact 2:[/b] Bungie has shown off their work on the dynamic lighting in Destiny several times, dating all the way back to "O Brave New World". It's obviously something they are proud of and something they put a lot of work into. [b]Fact 3:[/b] One of the opening scenes from "Pathways Out Of Darkness" shows an overview of the solar system with the various planets moving in their orbits. Showing this seems to put some emphasis on the planets and their relationships to one another. [b]Fact 4:[/b] Bungie loves creating beautiful skyboxes. So here's the deal. If Destiny is going to be a truly persistent universe, its locations should have true rotational periods. That is, Earth's period would be 24 hours, Mar's period would be 24.6 hours, Venus - 243 days, Mercury - 58.7 days, etc.. The moon and Europa both have synchronous periods, meaning they are rotating at a rate that keeps them facing the planet they're orbiting, but they are facing different parts of their planet at all times and the sun is still showing up in different parts of the sky. Likewise, the moon's phase and location in Earth's sky would change with the lunar cycle. Ideally, this system would be linked directly with present day time. If someone is playing at 7:00 PM in Florida (North American Eastern time), it will be 6:00 PM in Old Chicago because it is in central standard time. When the sun is over England in the real time, it's over England in Destiny's world as well. For everyone. I'm also envisioning a system map, that you use to plot your ship's course, that shows the actual (years in the future) positions of the planets as they rotate around the sun (similar to what's shown in the vidoc). In conclusion, I believe there's evidence that suggests that Bungie has already implemented true day/night cycles, and I believe such a feature would be awesome. I really think true day/night cycles, and related features, would really add a lot to this game. Thoughts? Problems? Suggestions? [quote]2 days in: Alright, so the general consensus seems to be that 24 hour Earth cycles would be a bad idea because of the fact that people generally play at the same time every day. A simple adjustment to a different cycle fixes this. Something like 23 hours, as suggested by some, would keep a realistic sense of the passage of time while giving players that play at the same time every day the chance to eventually experience every aspect of the game. For more on this, see [url=http://www.bungie.net/en-us/Forum/Post?id=60215132&path=1]tsassi2's[/url] and [url=http://www.bungie.net/en-us/Forum/Post?id=60215257&path=1]nflash11's[/url] posts. The synchronized idea seems to have been received well. The only real issue comes from places like Venus where people don't want to wait 2/3 of a year for a full day cycle. Perfectly understandable. Personally I think Mars, Earth, Mercury, and Venus all having the same period would feel a little cheap. But if they made the length of Earth's period to something much shorter than 24 hours (3-6 hrs), 243 days becomes a much more manageable 30.38 to 60.75 days (1-2 months). How does that sound?[/quote]
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  • I believe that using realistic day/night cycles would be a positive aspect of the game. It would foster some awesome community and personal experiences. For example, the idea that the community could gather on Venus to celebrate it's transition into night or a complete rotation; the rarity of that event makes it special. Or perhaps experiencing night for the first time with some friends when you have mostly played in the afternoon after work. The mystery and anticipation of the rare change from night to day on Venus only makes the world feel more real and important. People will make the time to experience these things because they seem important. I think that avoiding a completely homogenous experience for all of the gamers will allow for a more unique and immersive experience and, again, I honestly believe it would strengthen the community.

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    • I think there'll be a noticeable difference but not an accurate-to-life difference

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    • I don't see why not. It'd be cool as hell too. For the planets that are slower to rotate, I can see us having big stupid parties when the next day comes. Though, having them be in the right position for the year that Destiny takes place may be too difficult.

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      • Well, Mars, Earth? Sure no problem. I'm not exacly exited to be waiting 243 days before Venus has made a turn. Maybe if time is completely mission unrelated, then it would be fine. But i kind of want the awesome night mission where you sneak around shooting every opponent without ever being spotted in the thick black that is the middle of the night. And i don't want to wait 243 days to be attacking a fort in Venus by night. So good idea, but needs some work on the really slow rotating planets.

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        • i like the realism on day/night cycles but lets be honest, players would get annoyed by being stuck at night for a long time, same with day time...the cycle between day and night should be something like 6 hour span for day time or night. it gives the same realism effect but it doesn't trap a player in a night time scenario for 12 hours. one thing i want to add is, should destiny have survival stats, for example, minecraft has a hunger bar. destiny should have a hunger, hydration, and exhaustion meters...ya know, make the realism even more realistic

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        • Edited by WorriedJo shmo: 4/19/2013 11:54:02 PM
          World of Warcraft has a realistic day/night cycle and it doesn't seem to particularly bother people. I find that creating some convoluted system of shortening days is not only immersion breaking on Earth, but imagine applying this argument to every other planet. You now have to completely alter the day/night cycles of planets with far longer and shorter rotational periods. Nothing would be consistent. As the OP mentions bringing the time for an Earth day down to 3-6 hours and keeping that reduction proportional gives Venus a rotational period of 1 to 2 months. Obviously, since we are trying to give everybody the opportunity to experience the day and night cycles within a few hours, we would have to bring Venus down to a similar rotational period as Earth. This applies to all of the other planets leaving us with the same day/night cycles on every planet. I, personally, find that absurd.

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        • the only problem i see is dynamic transitioning. Yes thier can be real day night cycles, but on the planet it is day or night at different times on the same planet. If you where transitioning from one zone to another, the transition in the skybox would have to be perfect. Otherwise, i do not think it is a problem. In chicago it could be day, and in Bejing night, you could transfer between zones if you wanted. otherwise the day night cycle couple with player repetition produces areas which the player can get used to. Dont get me wrong, i would love it, but if my favorite zone kept transitioning every time i played it, it would be a little bit weird.

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        • I would like for there to be day/night cycles and there probably will be in Destiny. However, having real time cycles seems complicated and too problematic to implement to me. Don't get your hopes up for that.

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          • That would be good for hardcore players but for people that really don't play the game much, then they would really only see the game with one light. Like people who can only play after work would only ever see daylight or night time. I assume Bungie wants their game to be seen in full light.

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          • If by "real" you mean "real-time" as in the time of day in game depends on the time of day that you play, then definitely no. Reason being that it'd feel rather odd to have a "Shared World Shooter" do something like this, since it looks like you will play with people online, and the time difference could cause problems. There are also people who only play in certain times of the day, and so they would never see the world in any of the other day times.

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            • Definitley cant wait to look up at that Beautiful sky every once in a while. just to admire the damn good software bungie had installed just for its day/night cyles.

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            • Firstly, I've gotta agree, a real day/night cycle would be AWESOME, but as others have said, it would be cool to see all the different times, which would be impossible for people like me that play at the same time everyday. I think the 23 hour idea is really smart and really cool, but I think that if you have that then there isn't REALLY much point in having a real day/night cycle, because you are changing the time in parts of the world completely, so eventually it would become way off the real time, defeating the purpose of having time relevant to Earth, but I don't see much of a way other than that. I'm not really sure how you would be able to find a good medium to make everything good, but I'm sure that someone from bungie has a great idea for it, or maybe even someone here (which is probably the case!).

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            • How about a SHORTENED day/night, you know, like almost every other game does? 30 minutes day, 30 night on earth. What's wrong with that? Even some of the further away planets don't have to scale. Just because venus is 243 times longer than earth, doesn't mean it should be. What aobut 1 1/2 hours?

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            • The big thing is, you don't want divisible numbers for the hours. You don't want 3/4/6/8/12/24. This means that the cycles would be the same every day. You want 5/11/23. This means, if I get on at 8:00 every day (most people have fairly regular schedules), I won't experience the same cycle. I won't be hopping in at the same in-game time every day.

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            • They've already said somewhere that it's a 3 hour day/night cycle.

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              • yeah, this would be awesome, especially combined with what seems to be an open world.

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              • Great idea, love the idea of a persistent yet changing timescale. like everyone else said it should probably be sped up to around hours though, or maybe even offset a little so that it cycles for people who only get to play at certain times.

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              • I've thought about this as well, and I think it would be really awesome. Scaling the Earth's cycle back to like 90% of real time is also a unique and awesome idea that would help everyone experience everything. But I would definitely like to see accurate depictions of time on other planets as well. Ya, Venus might have a pretty long day, but just imagine how awesome it would be to be playing Destiny for so long, and then finally getting to see something new. It might be small, but it's something that would help keep players coming back to the game in the long run.

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                • I can't wait to see these new day night cycles, they sound great, even for bungie!

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                • As has already been said, real-time day-night cycle has numerous problems. First of all, if such system was used, it would obviously need to be synchronized server-side so that there wouldn't be weird time discrepancies between players. How it would be synchronized doesn't really matter. The game world is still hundreds of years in the future, and therefore the in-game time wouldn't have to correspond to real world time. That said, a real-time day-night cycle would be bad. It sounds cool in theory, but it would restrict players from seeing areas at certain times of day. For instance, could be that I could never be able to see the traveler at sunset. It's not really a major issue, but allowing players see places at different times gives a much richer experience. A good compromise would be a slightly sped up cycle. Personally, I don't think the cycle should be too sped up. In fact, I think it should be very slow, slow enough that you couldn't actually observe the cycle as you can in a game like Minecraft that has a very short cycle. I propose that the ideal cycle would be four or six hours, possibly even twelve. The reasoning for such length is that it approximately corresponds with a lengthy gaming session. (While some people may not consider that very long, six hours is probably quite on the long side for a less hardcore gamer.) That means that on one sitting, the player can experience the full cycle. Also (and this is also the rationale for the twelve hour cycle), the player can always jump in at approximately the same point in time, but still experience different times of day. For instance, with the twelve hour cycle, there would be two sun sets and rises as well as mid-days and nights per day. If to someone, say, sun rise in the last city took place at two o'clock in the middle of the night, they could also experience it at two o'clock in afternoon. It still might not be feasible to some people on weekdays, but already much more feasible on weekends. To be honest, the length of the cycle could be anything, it could be five hours, it could be six hours and one minute, it could be 28941 seconds. Such cycle lengths that aren't divisors of 24 could turn out to be beneficial in that they would guarantee that players who play at certain times of day get to experience different times of day. But admittedly, we need some sort of consistency that these cycle lengths wouldn't provide. Therefore I believe a divisor of 24 would be the best cycle length. Obviously, this is only with respect to Earth. But that is completely because it's presumably the main planet of the game, and we expect the game time to be somewhat consistent with real world time. The game time could easily be made to be consistent with time on other planets, but the system might not be very clear to players that way.

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                  • This entire debate may hinge of how far bungie is looking to take this living world concept. If they are looking to employ seasons, and track the passing years then a longer cycle will be included. Personally I think a longer cycle would be worth the downside to allow them to include a meaningful passage of time (a dynamic NPC society) They could employ a creative cycle that is not simply a factor of 24. For example, a 23 hour cycle would allow for a meaningful passage of years but would move event such as sunrise forward one hour in real time each day. You could then experience sunrise or whatever event at least once a month if you play at the same time every day. This is just one example and shortening by any non factor of 24 would allow for a moving in game time with any given real time.

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                  • Part of me things how cool it would be to have TRUE cycles that match the real universe with exactitude, but I really don't think this would be a good move on their part because that would drastically lock in people to experiencing the same thing over and over. Most people have set times they can play video games, so I imagine Bungie will consider this and give it a cycle that allows people to experience a diverse set of world events all in one game session.

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                  • I am not a scientist and only understood about 75% of that, but i see where you are going with it and i totally agree with you; this would make the game much more realistic.

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                  • Most people get to play at the same time every day, so I think this would get monotonous. I think at most, an earth cycle should last a couple hours.

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                  • Timezone I play only in the evening

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                    • I believe a slightly offset day would be a good thing. Maybe 25 hours to make it so you always end up in a different hour each time you play?

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