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10/20/2007 1:21:11 AM
213
Halo 3's melee system is flawed, Let's get it fixed!
Note if you've come here to flame, thats not going to solve anything.
As most of you know, Halo 3's melee system has a problem. You can deny this all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it is flawed, with evidence to prove that it is not lag related. [url]http://gruntsrus.com/news.php?readmore=802[/url]
In Halo 1 and 2 melee worked like this.
Player 1 has 20% health, Player 2 has 30% health, both will die from one melee.
Player 1 goes for a melee faster than Player 2,
His melee hits before player 2's does, and Player 2 dies.
He is rewarded for his fast reflexes and melee skills.
Now in Halo 3
Player one again 20% health with Player 2 with 30%, and again both will die from one melee
Player 1 again is faster and goes for the melee before player 2 does.
His melee hits before player 2's does.....BUT since player 2 had initiated his melee before player 1 hit him, but after player 1 started his melee, player 2's melee also hits.
Player 2 somehow survives despite the fact that player 1's melee hit first, and player 1 is the one who died, despite the fact that his melee hit player 2, and player 2 should be dead.
Player 1 is punished for having faster reflexes and having better melee skill.
Plyer 2 wins, because he was slower to react and had 10% more health.
So lets recap, player who melees first, on a target that can be killed by one melee, loses if that target has just the slightest more health than he does, and happens to hit B before he is hit.
The current system takes the 2 melees in the time frame, calculates which player has the most health, and kills the one with less, and doesn't count his melee either, even if he hit first.
Thats like having 2 people shoot each other in the head, but because one guy has a broken arm, the other guy doesn't die, whilst the guy with the borken arm does.
Bungie, either make it so the faster player wins, as he hits first, or make it so the system kills both people if they melee in the counter melee period.
[Edited on 10.19.2007 8:43 PM PDT]
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Again I add, either make it so both players die if they both go for fatal melees in the simultaneous melee window, or remove the window, and make it whoever punchs first wins. Don't simply not count the hit from the weaker player, especially if he hits first, just because he has the tiniest sliver less health than his opponent. It causes far to many wtf moments, way more than lag ever did(just look at the forums for proof) [Edited on 11.09.2007 4:07 PM PST]
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I don't get why people say that you need to change your stratagy or that you suck if you don't like the new melee. We don't suck, far from it. I've played with Zagashi and we both won a few team slayer games and we even got the number of melees into the top metals list. That should be proof enough that we don't suck and aren't crying about it. I may be good at meleeing and still find its flaws annoying. It only helps the mauler and shotgun to the point where if you didn't get your nade in then you are simply dead.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] UnbackedSpartan Sure, the melee system is different, but instead of looking at it like a bad thing, it should be seen as a new way to play a halo series, after all this isn't Halo 2, this is Halo 3. Not that I don't find it frustrating when I know I should have killed some guy, but it also happens where I would have normally died, but since its now based on shields I live. I'm just saying they're new rules that apply to everyone, not just you or me. [/quote] It does affect everyone but it still doesn't get rid of all the WTF moments you have in the game. I can't believe how many people want it changed. I have never seen such anger and hate since Halo 2's launch(On the forums). It seems almost like more people hate it then the underpowered melee at the beginning of Halo 2.
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i'm glad to find out that it is not in fact my conection
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Sure, the melee system is different, but instead of looking at it like a bad thing, it should be seen as a new way to play a halo series, after all this isn't Halo 2, this is Halo 3. Not that I don't find it frustrating when I know I should have killed some guy, but it also happens where I would have normally died, but since its now based on shields I live. I'm just saying they're new rules that apply to everyone, not just you or me.
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Halo 3's arsenal mixed with the close quarters maps seem to bring out the worst in people. I am now a ridiculous force to be reckonned with on Lone Wolf in Guardan. Grab the sniper and hammer and you are set for at least a killing spree if not frenzy.
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It's not just melee vs melee, the same effect happened to me with melee vs shotgun. My melee connected about .65 seconds earlier than his shotgun blast, yet I died. We both had our shields taken out, but he must've had more hp than me. I only see two problems that bother me a considerable amount. Number one being the melee system, and number 2 being the surplus of camper weapons. I've gotten used to the rockets and I've accepted them, but the hammer and the mauler is not fair at all. I would have a problem with the sword, but the sword isn't placed on maps like Guaradian, leaving me to dislike the hammer a large amount. It's very hard to kill a camping hammer guy because of the melee system. I shoot him with a mauler and melee, yet he manages to melee about a half second later and kill me. How is that fair? My shields weren't even down. It seems that the melee system calculates the health AFTER the attacks and then checks to see who has more health. The maulers aren't as annoying, but on certain maps it's really frustrating. I really hate how noob weapons like hammers, rockets, swords, and maulers spawn faster than the sniper rifle on several maps. Even vehicles spawn faster than sniper rifles. By the way, I'm not trying to rant on Halo 3, I really like it and I believe that after these flaws and possibly more (sniper collision anyone?) that it will become a great game and will be more fun than Halo 2 multiplayer.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zagashi Well at least Bungie is looking into it. Why not this Bungie, instead of your system registering who has the most health, you lower the time frame of the simultaneous melee period, and kill both players, because logically they both punched each other. Not just make one guys punch suddenly not count because he has a sliver less health. [/quote] Yeah that's how it worked in H:CE. If you both did it at the same time (and the window was unnoticable) you both died. Since there was no lunging this was much more of a rare occurance as you both had to be facing each other and hit the button at the same time and both be within the health limit to die from a melee. H:CE did do some things quite well and would have been good to keep thoughout the series... ~telengard
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Well at least Bungie is looking into it. Why not this Bungie, instead of your system registering who has the most health, you lower the time frame of the simultaneous melee period, and kill both players, because logically they both punched each other. Not just make one guys punch suddenly not count because he has a sliver less health.
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Why should people with better latency suffer? These new melee mechanics are hurting the game more than helping it. Here's a scenario for you: I pursue player A while player B starts to shoot at me from a distance. Regardless of getting the jump on player A before he starts shooting me, player B has already damaged my shield a significant amount. I'm now close enough to melee player A and know that player B is most likely going to kill me while I'm occupied with player A, but because of Bungie's whack new melee mechanics, I'm unable to finish player A before player B finishes me off, simply because my shield is lower than player A's, and now player A's melee will beat mine every time. Maybe in your little world, that's fair, but in mine, that's garbage.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kappakoin It's Halo 3 not Halo 1 or Halo 2 it's Halo 3 and in Halo 3 it's about doing as more damage then your attacker before your both in melee range. The rules have changed a bit so you can cry about it or get better or do the thing that all noobs with the same problem are doing and stop playing cuz really no one cares about your poor skill in halo 3.[/quote] Ah yes poor skill... Then why the hell am I a 42 in Lone Wolf and a 38 in Team Slayer? Why do I have more beatdowns then deaths by the fist? I still gape whenever I hit way too late because I wasn't paying attention and still get the kill despite the fact that I should have been massacred. The rules have not changed a "bit". they have changed the Holy Trinity in a negative way but the game is still good. Once more if you don't want to help FIX the games flaws then don't come on the forums.
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Bungie definately needs to take a look at this melee issue.
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It's Halo 3 not Halo 1 or Halo 2 it's Halo 3 and in Halo 3 it's about doing as more damage then your attacker before your both in melee range. The rules have changed a bit so you can cry about it or get better or do the thing that all noobs with the same problem are doing and stop playing cuz really no one cares about your poor skill in halo 3.
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Flawed, broken, we mean the same thing when we use it. Why switch systems if the lag is just as bad?
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melee is fine l2p, if one person hits first and the the person with more health doesn't hit B fast enough he will still die, so it can be based on reflexes, but if they both hit at near the same time then it calculates who would over power who, just because it's harder to use lag to your advantage now doesn't mean it's a broken system
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What I don't get is that when you spawn with a machine gun and don't expect you to close when firing it. That just doesn't make sense. A machine gun is accurate closer and then with the added melee you tend to kill your opponent. This is where the melee system kills you. Instead of lunging and taking the fastest oppotunity for the kill your opponent is now able to wait and fire off two extra rounds into you and kill you after they should be dead.
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I completeley agree that they need to change the melee. I use boxer and melee is very important. faster reaction should be rewarded.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Noodie5 if you have more health, you win. plain and simple, it make sense. heres an idea, dont let the person get your health down. Otherwise people woudl just run through gunshots meleeing everyone even though their health is down to the bottom and the other persons is full. Not only doesnt it make sense, its not fair. now its tougher and you gotta be more strategic. Stop crying because your garbage at meleeing. it isnt the system, its your inability to lower your opponents health. All you want to do is melee people, get some skill with a gun.[/quote] If you think it makes sense im sorry but your an idiot. If two peoples shields are both low enough where one melee hit will kill them then why wouldnt the person who is faster and melees first not got the kill. It is the system and if you dont see that I dont know what to say. Also I think melee attacks are overpowered and would rather not use them but when your right next to somebody you usually have to melee them or you will die. I do have skill with a gun and would prefer not to melee and I dont think alot of people are complaining because they just like to melee and not shoot. They're complaining because its broken the way it is now and its just ridiculous. Besides the melee attacks being to powerful in halo 2 as they are now (imo ) there was nothing wrong with it in halo 2. So why would you change it. It really makes no sense. [Edited on 10.22.2007 2:39 PM PDT]
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Bungie, think of it this way. If two person are punching in REAL LIFE. Let's say...A is fairly injured while B is lightly injured. A has less armour then B. And A gives a blow to B's face, which in real life would knock B out or paralyze him, but if real life [i]is[/i] Halo, then B has a split second to retaliate, and A is knocked out. And B wins. You call that normal?
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Yeah but I like helping a debate rather than an argument which seems to arrive everywhere else.
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We should really be bumping the other thread with the poll. The numbers are in our favor, proving a majority of the Halo community is against the new melee system.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zenweaponry That was beautiful Johnny.[/quote] I expected flames, but thank you bro. I want the people to understand what is going on, and bungie.
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Bump for fix
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K I'm back, and bump
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spam Ninja Halo 2 was ran into the ground by the community. Its best that some things be left alone.[/quote] So Halo 2 was better before the 1.1 patch? Your intelligence amazes me...
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Save the thread! Bump and another Bump
