[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Midnight 39 It is very complicated. It keeps track of 2 numbers, 1 is your rank, and the other is a number that indicates how certain it is that the first number is correct. This is called an uncertainty rating. After you've played more and more games this rating goes down, but due to the uncertainty rating while it may say you are a level 30 it may actually rate you as a level 25-35 and 30 as a best guess. When it is unsure of how good you are and you blow your competition away for 5 straight games it will jump you in level until you consistently finish in the middle of the pack. It keeps track of trends and such as well so that it can accurately measure your skill and not your win% like in H2. In general it is designed so that people who don't play as often are able to get the skill rating they deserve rather than only those that play frequently. It shouldn't take 6 months to get the skill rating you deserve it should happen as quickly as possible. But once you hit that rating it should stop and you should 'meet your match'. Hence why you level up to 30 very quickly and then suddenly find competition. It is called Trueskill and is made by micoroft for any 360 game.[/quote] Thank you for finally putting that in "english." But i gotta know how you deciphered that god-awful pseudo explanation microsuck has on their website.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DaRkNeSsOp3191 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tgblackw [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheProdigy08 It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.[/quote] Happens to me all the time. I'm starting to get used to it. [/quote]It still gets to me. (and so do the random -1 penalties that I keep getting!)[/quote] If you win against people that the system expects you to win against (based on their skill ratings), you won't make large gains. If you lose against people that the system expects you to beat, you'll lose rating. he skill rating system isn't a linear progression - it's not just about winning games, but about who you're playing against.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tgblackw [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheProdigy08 It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.[/quote] Happens to me all the time. I'm starting to get used to it. [/quote]It still gets to me. (and so do the random -1 penalties that I keep getting!)

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Midnight 39 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BigBadB UK Actually, as the skill ranking system is apparently based on Trueskill, that's not how it works. In a team game, Trueskill only looks at where your team placed, and the total skill ratings of each team. Your individual performance in the match is not considered by the system - just whether your team won or lost (or where it placed, in games with more than two teams). In effect, it treats each team as a single entity. If the result of the match and total skill ratings of each team result in a change of rating, that rating change is then assigned among the players on the team according to how 'confident' the system is in those ratings - again, your individual performance in the match is not directly considered. Of course, Bungie may have made some modifications to Trueskill, but these are such fundamental aspects of the system that I'd be surprised if they messed with them. For more details, see [url]http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/trueskill.aspx[/url] (if you don't like math, just read the first page and then all of the FAQ section). [/quote] "In order to determine the new skill beliefs of all the participating players for a new game outcome, the TrueSkill ranking system needs to determine the probability of the observed game outcome for given skills of the participating players and weight it by the probability of the corresponding skill beliefs. This is done by averaging over all possible performances (weighted by their probabilities) and deriving the game outcome from the performances: The player with the highest performance is the winner; the player with the second highest performance is the first runner up, and so on. If two players' performances are very close together, then the TrueSkill ranking system considers the outcome between these two players a draw. The larger the margin which defines a draw in a given league, the more likely a draw is to occur, according to the TrueSkill ranking system. The size of this margin is a configurable parameter of the TrueSkill ranking system and is adjusted based on the game mode." That comes straight from the above link. As you can see its based on players and not a team. Thus my above statement is correct.[/quote] The section you're quoting is talking about a FFA game with multiple players. In Team games, it treats each team as a 'player' for the purposes of the above section. Try reading the FAQ section on team games: [i]"Q: Does the TrueSkill ranking system reward individual players in a team game? A: The only information the TrueSkill ranking system will process is: * Which team won? * Who were the members of the participating teams? The TrueSkill ranking system takes neither the underlying exact scores (flag captures, kills, time etc.) for each team into account nor which particular team member performed how well. As a consequence, the only way players can influence their skill updates is by promoting the probability that their team wins."[/i] Also... [i]"it always compares the team's skills (sums of the player's skills in the teams) and 'distributes' the gain/loss proportional to the individual player's uncertainties"[/i] [Edited on 10.19.2007 8:43 AM PDT]

I can't say for certain weather or not they utilize the K/D in determining where players lie, but I read something in the last few days that led me to believe that, but i'm not sure what (i've read ALOT) either way they use K/D or something to that extent because it is not just Win/Lose. That would defeat the point of trueskill. It keeps track of skill and now a Win%.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BigBadB UK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Midnight 39 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tgblackw [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheProdigy08 It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.[/quote] Happens to me all the time. I'm starting to get used to it. [/quote] What happens is that it compares each player of each team to all other players. So if you win six or seven games in a row and still level down, then its probably because while your team did win, you probably didn't do well individually, or other individuals on the losing team did better than you. What can happen is, that everyone on your team finished; +4 +3 +2 +1 And you got the +1, but everyone on the other team was negative except their leader who couldn't pull of the win for the whole team. The leader on their team might have gotten a +3 which means you were actually in 5th place in the game. It should be taking your win into a account, but since you were still in 5th it would probably result in you losing points towards your skill. If this happens enough times you could definately lose a level or two. It should also take the magnitude of your victory into account as well. So if you blow a team away and finish +22 and pull your losing team to a victory, you'll probably go up 2 levels for that.[/quote] Actually, as the skill ranking system is apparently based on Trueskill, that's not how it works. In a team game, Trueskill only looks at where your team placed, and the total skill ratings of each team. Your individual performance in the match is not considered by the system - just whether your team won or lost (or where it placed, in games with more than two teams). In effect, it treats each team as a single entity. If the result of the match and total skill ratings of each team result in a change of rating, that rating change is then assigned among the players on the team according to how 'confident' the system is in those ratings - again, your individual performance in the match is not directly considered. Of course, Bungie may have made some modifications to Trueskill, but these are such fundamental aspects of the system that I'd be surprised if they messed with them. For more details, see [url]http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/trueskill.aspx[/url] (if you don't like math, just read the first page and then all of the FAQ section). [/quote] "In order to determine the new skill beliefs of all the participating players for a new game outcome, the TrueSkill ranking system needs to determine the probability of the observed game outcome for given skills of the participating players and weight it by the probability of the corresponding skill beliefs. This is done by averaging over all possible performances (weighted by their probabilities) and deriving the game outcome from the performances: The player with the highest performance is the winner; the player with the second highest performance is the first runner up, and so on. If two players' performances are very close together, then the TrueSkill ranking system considers the outcome between these two players a draw. The larger the margin which defines a draw in a given league, the more likely a draw is to occur, according to the TrueSkill ranking system. The size of this margin is a configurable parameter of the TrueSkill ranking system and is adjusted based on the game mode." That comes straight from the above link. As you can see its based on players and not a team. Thus my above statement is correct.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tgblackw I agree with you. But, what you say isn't the case. My kill to death ratio is over 1.50. The losing team rarely has anyone that does better than me. So, your theorey is flawed.[/quote] Trueskill doesn't look at your K/D ratio, just at whether your team won or lost (or where it placed in games with more than two teams), and at the total skill ratings of each team. You could have the highest K/D ratio in the world, but if your team loses, you can still lose rating.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Midnight 39 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tgblackw [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheProdigy08 It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.[/quote] Happens to me all the time. I'm starting to get used to it. [/quote] What happens is that it compares each player of each team to all other players. So if you win six or seven games in a row and still level down, then its probably because while your team did win, you probably didn't do well individually, or other individuals on the losing team did better than you. What can happen is, that everyone on your team finished; +4 +3 +2 +1 And you got the +1, but everyone on the other team was negative except their leader who couldn't pull of the win for the whole team. The leader on their team might have gotten a +3 which means you were actually in 5th place in the game. It should be taking your win into a account, but since you were still in 5th it would probably result in you losing points towards your skill. If this happens enough times you could definately lose a level or two. It should also take the magnitude of your victory into account as well. So if you blow a team away and finish +22 and pull your losing team to a victory, you'll probably go up 2 levels for that.[/quote] Actually, as the skill ranking system is apparently based on Trueskill, that's not how it works. In a team game, Trueskill only looks at where your team placed, and the total skill ratings of each team. Your individual performance in the match is not considered by the system - just whether your team won or lost (or where it placed, in games with more than two teams). In effect, it treats each team as a single entity. If the result of the match and total skill ratings of each team result in a change of rating, that rating change is then assigned among the players on the team according to how 'confident' the system is in those ratings - again, your individual performance in the match is not directly considered. Of course, Bungie may have made some modifications to Trueskill, but these are such fundamental aspects of the system that I'd be surprised if they messed with them. For more details, see [url]http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/trueskill.aspx[/url] (if you don't like math, just read the first page and then all of the FAQ section).

Having a good K/D doesn't mean you don't have off games. In addition to that there are more factors involved than just the single game. I'm not expert on the system but I can definately say that if it leveled you down, it did it for a reason. Without being able to see a specific example or series of games I can't say 'this is why its happening to you'. In addition, I never said, 'that's what is happening to you' but that is certainly the case for some people. But without knowing more info, I just can't know. It could have to do with trends, it could have to do with your opponents trends. Its hard to say.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Midnight 39 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tgblackw [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheProdigy08 It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.[/quote] Happens to me all the time. I'm starting to get used to it. [/quote] What happens is that it compares each player of each team to all other players. So if you win six or seven games in a row and still level down, then its probably because while your team did win, you probably didn't do well individually, or other individuals on the losing team did better than you. What can happen is, that everyone on your team finished; +4 +3 +2 +1 And you got the +1, but everyone on the other team was negative except their leader who couldn't pull of the win for the whole team. The leader on their team might have gotten a +3 which means you were actually in 5th place in the game. It should be taking your win into a account, but since you were still in 5th it would probably result in you losing points towards your skill. If this happens enough times you could definately lose a level or two. It should also take the magnitude of your victory into account as well. So if you blow a team away and finish +22 and pull your losing team to a victory, you'll probably go up 2 levels for that.[/quote] I agree with you. But, what you say isn't the case. My kill to death ratio is over 1.50. The losing team rarely has anyone that does better than me. So, your theorey is flawed.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tgblackw [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheProdigy08 It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.[/quote] Happens to me all the time. I'm starting to get used to it. [/quote] What happens is that it compares each player of each team to all other players. So if you win six or seven games in a row and still level down, then its probably because while your team did win, you probably didn't do well individually, or other individuals on the losing team did better than you. What can happen is, that everyone on your team finished; +4 +3 +2 +1 And you got the +1, but everyone on the other team was negative except their leader who couldn't pull of the win for the whole team. The leader on their team might have gotten a +3 which means you were actually in 5th place in the game. It should be taking your win into a account, but since you were still in 5th it would probably result in you losing points towards your skill. If this happens enough times you could definately lose a level or two. It should also take the magnitude of your victory into account as well. So if you blow a team away and finish +22 and pull your losing team to a victory, you'll probably go up 2 levels for that.

[i]"[u][b]TrueSkill[/b][/u] The TrueSkill ranking system is a skill based ranking system for Xbox Live developed at [url=http://www.research.microsoft.com/]Microsoft Research[/url]. The purpose of a ranking system is to both identify and track the skills of gamers in a game (mode) in order to be able to match them into competitive matches. The TrueSkill ranking system only uses the final standings of all teams in a game in order to update the skill estimates (ranks) of all gamers playing in this game. Ranking systems have been proposed for many sports but possibly the most prominent ranking system in use today is [url=http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=ELO+rating+system&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1]ELO[/url]."[/i] Read more at [url]http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/Details.aspx#How_to_Update_Skills[/url] [Edited on 10.19.2007 8:00 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheProdigy08 It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.[/quote] Happens to me all the time. I'm starting to get used to it.

It pisses me off how you can play and win six or seven matches in a row and not level up. Yet you can loose one and level down.

EXP comes from social games so no thats not exactly true. They could have played 500 social games and have 500 Exp but still be a rank 1. Need to play ranked matches to get rank & Exp.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BazzaFFC Ok fair enough so when looking at peoples service record if they have a high EXP but there still is quite low am I right in saying they have played a lot of games just not won to many?[/quote] HIGH xp and LOW ranking probably mean that they are playing more social games (like myself) as opposed to ranked ones, thus exp goes up but not your skill level

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BazzaFFC Ok fair enough so when looking at peoples service record if they have a high EXP but there still is quite low am I right in saying they have played a lot of games just not won to many?[/quote] Either that or they have just been playing social playlists.

Ok fair enough so when looking at peoples service record if they have a high EXP but there still is quite low am I right in saying they have played a lot of games just not won to many?

It is very complicated. It keeps track of 2 numbers, 1 is your rank, and the other is a number that indicates how certain it is that the first number is correct. This is called an uncertainty rating. After you've played more and more games this rating goes down, but due to the uncertainty rating while it may say you are a level 30 it may actually rate you as a level 25-35 and 30 as a best guess. When it is unsure of how good you are and you blow your competition away for 5 straight games it will jump you in level until you consistently finish in the middle of the pack. It keeps track of trends and such as well so that it can accurately measure your skill and not your win% like in H2. In general it is designed so that people who don't play as often are able to get the skill rating they deserve rather than only those that play frequently. It shouldn't take 6 months to get the skill rating you deserve it should happen as quickly as possible. But once you hit that rating it should stop and you should 'meet your match'. Hence why you level up to 30 very quickly and then suddenly find competition. It is called Trueskill and is made by micoroft for any 360 game.

Quantom physics. My uncle knows a guy who actually gets payed the big bucks from NASA.... he figured it out then explained it to me. Pretty much if you win more then you lose you will rank up