so you mean gilbert has something in common with half the players who play halo? he figures out a way to beat the system?! BANHAMMA! [Edited on 10.12.2007 1:50 PM PDT]

I, funnily, ran across this link while reading another unrealted thread on the forums. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/content.aspx?link=h2cheating]Halo 2 and Cheating[/url] It's an article from January 2007 by runningturtle that explains what IS and IS NOT cheating in Halo 2 and what you can do about it. lemme use my scissors to cut a snippet (with my emphasis): [quote] [b]Q[/b] What is considered cheating or against the rules in Halo 2? [b]A[/b] In a nutshell, Bungie considers cheating to be [i]the act of manipulating or interfering with aspects of the game or networking to give yourself or your team an unfair advantage[/i]. The exact methods and cases will vary as people invent new ways to do bad things. Our team is constantly monitoring the latest exploits and issues and will be reacting as necessary. Common examples of things that will get someone banned from Live play include "standby cheats" (i.e. interfering with the network connection to disrupt gameplay), using hacked maps or game files or [i][b]manipulating matchmaking to "boost" your way up the leaderboards[/b][/i]. There are also other issues beyond actual cheating that could result in punishment by either the Live Team or Bungie. Profanity, threats, racism and inappropriate player/clan names are all [b]examples of Conduct violations that will result in some sort of punishment from the Xbox Live Team[/b]. [/quote] I think it's Crystal Clear what Bungie and Microsoft need to do with regards to this situation...to ALL who do it. Granted, this is Halo 3...but the rules still apply do they not?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zentex Do not quote me and not fully understand my point. So anything that doesn't hurt anyone else is OK in your book? Is that what I am to understand?[/quote] That sounds about right.. [quote]GA boosted his rank in a social match and it hurt no one. Ok...lets a look bit further into "victimless `crimes`"[/quote] Okay. [quote]Pete Rose bet against his own team and no one was hurt. But why did they kick him out of baseball and then refuse to put him in the HOF? He's certainly deserving of HOF status.[/quote] Actually, Pete Rose claims he never against his own team, but the problem is, what if he did? That means he would have had incentive to intentionally throw away games and thus, hurt his teammates. Not only does it hurt people's pride if they aren't able to get the win that they should have, but they lose out financially. In general, winners get paid. So, no, this is not victimless. Not to mention it is a federal crime. [quote]Michael Vick ran some sort of dog-fighting ring and no one was hurt. But he still got into a world of crap over it. He broke VA law, but what if it happened in a state that had no ban on dog fighting, you think the same would happen? (HINT: yes, minus the legal system)[/quote] Umm, dogs are tortured, executed, and put up against each other.. And no one was hurt? Not to mention Vick has been convicted of federal crimes. [quote]AGAIN, these guys are in the public eye. Their contract (JOB) holds them to a higher standard than you or I. The fact of the matter is, regardless of WHO this guy is, he broke the Code of Conduct that Microsoft has put into place that applies to ALL games and ALL persons. He agreed to (yet another) contract when he created his XBL GT; he willingly and knowingly BROKE that contract.[/quote] Somehow, I don't think boosting his own experience in Halo 3 is a federal crime. [quote]I hope that ALL people who boost their service rank in this manner are dealt with appropriately and not just brushed off like nothing happened. I'm tired of people ruining MY gaming experience every time I turn around. Unfortunately, from now on, I will suspect that all persons with any kind of service rank are in fact cheaters. This is how HIS actions (be it he the first or the last to do this) have affected my game play experience. His job is to play a [i]game[/i], and I would expect him to have the same professionalism in this [i]game[/i]. I shouldn't have to consider everyone a cheater.[/quote] This is what I meant by overblowing things out of proportion. How the heck can you compare Gilbert Arenas' actions on a video game to dogfighting and gambling and federal offenses? And now you claim to be a victim, stopping short of saying you were traumatized by the whole event. It's like you see a cop run a stop sign and then claim you can never ever trust cops again. Sure, the cop is wrong, but don't you think it's taking it a bit too far? [Edited on 10.12.2007 1:46 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ichiro to senro "To kids, he is a "hero" or someone to "look up to". So right now, this fellow is sending the message to kids "it's OK to cheat". Kids don't see "it's OK to cheat as long as no one is hurt" (what he's thinking), all they see is their "hero" cheating and not seeing any repercussions. This is a dangerous message to send to today's youth. Seriously. First it's a game, then it's a test in school, then who knows what." Yup, first it's Halo 3. Then it's an exam. Then "who knows what". Don't even want to think about that. [/quote] Do not quote me and not fully understand my point. So anything that doesn't hurt anyone else is OK in your book? Is that what I am to understand? GA boosted his rank in a social match and it hurt no one. Ok...lets a look bit further into "victimless `crimes`" Pete Rose bet against his own team and no one was hurt. But why did they kick him out of baseball and then refuse to put him in the HOF? He's certainly deserving of HOF status. Michael Vick ran some sort of dog-fighting ring and no one was hurt. But he still got into a world of crap over it. He broke VA law, but what if it happened in a state that had no ban on dog fighting, you think the same would happen? (HINT: yes, minus the legal system) AGAIN, these guys are in the public eye. Their contract (JOB) holds them to a higher standard than you or I. The fact of the matter is, regardless of WHO this guy is, he broke the Code of Conduct that Microsoft has put into place that applies to ALL games and ALL persons. He agreed to (yet another) contract when he created his XBL GT; he willingly and knowingly BROKE that contract. I hope that ALL people who boost their service rank in this manner are dealt with appropriately and not just brushed off like nothing happened. I'm tired of people ruining MY gaming experience every time I turn around. Unfortunately, from now on, I will suspect that all persons with any kind of service rank are in fact cheaters. This is how HIS actions (be it he the first or the last to do this) have affected my game play experience. His job is to play a [i]game[/i], and I would expect him to have the same professionalism in this [i]game[/i]. I shouldn't have to consider everyone a cheater.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hashashin [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wuyie [/quote] this last sentence alone lets me know who im trying to argue with...nerds with nothing in their lives but video games.[/quote] Well sports players have nothing it their lives except.................sports! If you have a problem with the way people spend their lives then you need to stop being an ignorant asshat. Welcome to planet Earth, everyone isn't the same, we are all different in some way shape or form.

im going home...hope the debate continues so i can read more on monday...

without skill of 50 you will never be general

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SuspectFurb [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN you missed his point completely. because pro gaming is so young is why we need to uphold the integrity here. savvy?[/quote] You must have missed my point. Pro gaming is not big enough for this to effect it. People familiar with Pro Gaming will not think that it has lost its integrity over this incident. When did gaming get integrity? Cheating has ALWAYS been a huge probably with any video game..[/quote] So then Pro-Gaming is likely to be a closer experience to a WWE event than a pro-sport event. If the outcome is vague or possible to manipulate, then as long as the fans know... that's cool. No one can say that pro-wrestling isn't popular or profitable. But if the goal is to create the image in the fans minds that the outcome is purely determined by skill, talent, training, practice, effort and maybe even a little luck, I think that a statement of "we don't condone, approve or participate in such activities" could go a long way towards keeping pro-gaming on the "sporting event" and not into the "sports drama and entertainment" arena.[/quote] That isn't what I'm saying. And were getting a little far off topic. I feel people see gaming more like Skateboarding/Snowboarding when they first came out, not as a form of sports entertainment not as a sporting event but a JOKE and something that is actually bad or harmful! At first no one but the players themselves cared about their sports but they grew into a fairly big sports. What I'm saying is Pro gaming can and should hold up the integrity that pro gaming wants and make statements like the one your made and that is good. But things like finding out About GA doesnt change any ones view on gaming as a pro sport. Cheating has been done in video games since the dawn of gaming what makes him soo different?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hashashin i say we all rest our little fingers and wait to find out bungies decision... if they dont ban him will you be upset with bungie? [/quote] Interesting question. For me, I would like/want to hear the reasoning behind any decision, no matter what it was. After all, Mr. Arenas has said "yes I did, but what's the big deal?" (paraphrasing). Many gamers have agreed and pointed out that "no one is really harmed". Many other gamers have said "the big deal is that you are being shown with status and rewards that you didn't earn honestly and fairly". If anyone else who in a party to this acts on the events, I would be interested in not only their action, but their statements to explain their actions. But that is just me.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hashashin [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZEROGREENCHIEF Who cares? Oh wait I dont bwahahahaha. Enjoy your rants[/quote] why dont you care? i dont care either...my reasoning being it doesnt ruin my experience in any way.... would you like to add to the discussion...or just add useless banter?[/quote] Derpy Derp diddy derp but srsly It doesnt effect me soo baww [Edited on 10.12.2007 1:02 PM PDT]

i think this is hilarious that someone would do that. Eventually, your xp wont matter, cause everyone will be generals. The only thing that will matter is your rank.

Recon, I just typed up an extremely long post in response to your post in which you quoted me. Unfortunately, I hit Submit and all the page did was basically refresh. I was not intelligent enough to save the post before I hit submit. FAIL Anyway, I'll just sum it up quickly. Boosting XP is like Achievement boosting. Both harm no one, just devalue the goal. I don't condone cheating. This won't kill MLG People that are asking Mr Arenas to be banned, yet they themselves achievement boost are hypocrites. And another paragraph explaining why I've been posting :( I wish there was a way to get that back. It was written pretty well and answered all of your questions as well as provided a little insight into why so many people here don't like MLG players. Oh well

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ZEROGREENCHIEF Who cares? Oh wait I dont bwahahahaha. Enjoy your rants[/quote] why dont you care? i dont care either...my reasoning being it doesnt ruin my experience in any way.... would you like to add to the discussion...or just add useless banter?

Who cares? Oh wait I dont bwahahahaha. Enjoy your rants

i say we all rest our little fingers and wait to find out bungies decision... if they dont ban him will you be upset with bungie?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hashashin [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hashashin [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN hmmm... does the name Lyle Alzado ring any bells... and that may have been 15-20 years ago...[/quote] yes it does...and can you name any more? it wasnt untill a few years ago that they really started to crack down..im just saying...[/quote] you are correct. but does that mean they shouldn't have cracked down sooner?[/quote] thats not for me to say..that was for the commisioners to decide..just like its up to bungie to decide now[/quote] yer dodging the issue. just because it took pro football, baseball, basketball, track&field years and years to crack down on performance enhancing drugs shouldn't mean that pro gaming should let cheating OR those associated with it slide. in fact, it should mean the opposite. [Edited on 10.12.2007 12:51 PM PDT]

Edit, I see you saw your mistake Ichiro, irrelevant post here. [Edited on 10.12.2007 12:49 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 Gentlemen. The quote pyramids and internal bickering over other posts in the thread needs to stop. Now. Don't make me take off my belt.* *It's keeping my pants up.[/quote] Whoops, sorry. I was writing my reply when you posted this. [Edited on 10.12.2007 12:48 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ichiro to senro Hypocrisy - which renders anything said in the past, present, and future by the hypocrite or hypocrites as pure bull.[/quote] hmmmm... nope go back to yer desk and try again... we'll be here all day if we have to...[/quote] Yup. You speak of integrity and have none. Hypocrite. I'm done with you, so don't ever respond to any of my posts again.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] stvnk and just for the record, hes not a pro gamer! hes a pro basketball player. he doesn't play games for money... he makes more than enough im sure.[/quote] yer right but: his face is on the cover of a recent game he endorses and promotes and sponsors Final Boss, a pro Halo 2 team he is involved...

Gentlemen. The quote pyramids and internal bickering over other posts in the thread needs to stop. Now. Don't make me take off my belt.* *It's keeping my pants up.

and just for the record, hes not a pro gamer! hes a pro basketball player. he doesn't play games for money... he makes more than enough im sure.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SuspectFurb [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN you missed his point completely. because pro gaming is so young is why we need to uphold the integrity here. savvy?[/quote] You must have missed my point. Pro gaming is not big enough for this to effect it. People familiar with Pro Gaming will not think that it has lost its integrity over this incident. When did gaming get integrity? Cheating has ALWAYS been a huge probally with any video game..[/quote] So then Pro-Gaming is likely to be a closer experience to a WWE event than a pro-sport event. If the outcome is vague or possible to manipulate, then as long as the fans know... that's cool. No one can say that pro-wrestling isn't popular or profitable. But if the goal is to create the image in the fans minds that the outcome is purely determined by skill, talent, training, practice, effort and maybe even a little luck, I think that a statement of "we don't condone, approve or participate in such activities" could go a long way towards keeping pro-gaming on the "sporting event" and not into the "sports drama and entertainment" arena.[/quote] You hit that dead on.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hashashin [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN hmmm... does the name Lyle Alzado ring any bells... and that may have been 15-20 years ago...[/quote] yes it does...and can you name any more? it wasnt untill a few years ago that they really started to crack down..im just saying...[/quote] you are correct. but does that mean they shouldn't have cracked down sooner?[/quote] thats not for me to say..that was for the commisioners to decide..just like its up to bungie to decide now

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ichiro to senro [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ichiro to senro [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BUBKIS CHICKEN [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ichiro to senro Instead, we have posts like "WE NEED TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF HIM" or "IF HE CHEATS AT THIS HE MUST CHEAT THE REST OF HIS LIFE" or "PEOPLE LOOK AT HIM AS A ROLE MODEL SO IF HE CHEATS, KIDS WILL BECOME HOOLIGANS" or "RANKS IN HALO 3 IS EQUIVALENT TO RANKS IN MILITARY AND ARENAS IS GETTING THEM ILLEGALLY".[/quote] i luv how @ the end... you actually made-up yer own quotes instead of really quoting anybody... very persuasive... you win the interwebz...[/quote] I was paraphrasing, but if you look, the actual inspirations behind those quotes are all there. If you disagree, I'll go and fetch them for you word for word if you agree to keep your sarcastic text to yourself and never post in this thread again. If you don't want to make that deal, then your reply has no merit, and nor will your future ones. Which, in that case, would mean that they won't deserve a response from myself. Thanks.[/quote] i don't agree. ...fetch, boy... fetch deal?[/quote] "I say BAN HIM Hes the best example to make an example of if you know what I mean." Yup, make an example of Arenas. Check. "NBA refs taking bribes, rumors about rigged drafts, and players with bad attitudes towards fans. Now we have a cocky role model that's been exposed for cheating and he still thinks it is okay." Yup, boosting experience in Halo 3 is the same as "taking bribes", taking part in "rigged drafts", and having "bad attitudes towards fans". Arenas certainly must take part in all of those. "To kids, he is a "hero" or someone to "look up to". So right now, this fellow is sending the message to kids "it's OK to cheat". Kids don't see "it's OK to cheat as long as no one is hurt" (what he's thinking), all they see is their "hero" cheating and not seeing any repercussions. This is a dangerous message to send to today's youth. Seriously. First it's a game, then it's a test in school, then who knows what." Yup, first it's Halo 3. Then it's an exam. Then "who knows what". Don't even want to think about that. "The way he described it in his response, the military ranks are just a ceromonial thing that he doesnt want to deal with." I'm sure those in the service appreciate the comparison of their ranks to those found in an online video game. Well, Chicken, I've complied with your request. You've agreed to the deal. Now please refrain from posting in this thread ever again. If you refuse, then maybe a moderator should get involved. And if the moderator looks the other way, what's the difference between this deal (agreed to by both sides) and Bungie and Gilbert Arenas? Hypocrisy - which renders anything said in the past, present, and future by the hypocrite or hypocrites as pure bull.[/quote] hmmmm... nope go back to yer desk and try again... we'll be here all day if we have to...

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] stvnk lol you guys are making such a big deal out of this. does rank or skill really matter? as long as you know you are good who cares. and besides, kobe is better than arenas any day. and if he is such a high rank then he will be placed with other players with equal ranks, who should easily be able to handle him, right?[/quote] Doesn't matter ... no I don't take rank seriously ... but what I would take seriously as a future game developer is people cheating the system I had come up with.