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10/3/2007 8:29:53 AM
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343 Guilty Spark decended from Mendicant Bias???????
After reading through the complete transcripts from the Terminals I think there is a strong connection between 343 and Mendicant Bias, more then them both being Forerunner AI.
I will cite several instances from the terminals that could be links.
In the transcript from Terminal 3 when they tell of the security breach at the alpha site ( Alpha Halo, 343's instillation) it says the "The epicenter of the disturbance is the partition currently housing a [personality construct array] retrieved from Contender AI 05-032. <+> 0816." Could this be a reference to 343 being an AI derived from Mendicant Bias?
In the same terminal when Mendicant Bias is speaking to the Gravemind, or core intelligence they discuss life and evolution. The LF tells MB that the forerunner created MB to do something that they couldn't and that MB was "Something capable of making decisions more swiftly, more capably than they {~} what form did they choose? You need look no further than your own [topology] to {~}" To which MB replies " {~} distributed network?" The LF then tells MB that he is not that different from the Flood and that "you are a single intelligence inhabiting multiple [instances]". More proof perhaps that MB is present in all the monitors of the instillations? Could it be that the Forerunner believed so much in MB that they used his design and mind to develop the monitors to oversee the Halos?
There is another piece of information. In a message from MB at terminal 4 he states "I have found the shard that was lost. They brought it back to me. Now my reconstitution cannot be stopped". This is after 343 appears at the Ark. It is possible that MB is talking about bringing back all the monitors in order to reconstitute himself into his whole being. The shard that is lost is not the index from alpha halo that was taken by Cortana because she didn’t show up at high charity till after you access this terminal. So 343 is probably the shard that was lost.
So this probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the form its in however I think that I can piece it together. After MB went rampant and sided with the flood the Forerunners built Offensive Bias to combat MB and allow the Forerunners to activate the Halos. Now after the halos were activated OB quickly defeated MB and his flood allies in about 5-10mins. OB then says "I could spare it; carve out what is left of its [personality construct array] and deliver it to [Installation Zero] for study." Obviously OB did deliver MB to the Ark, that’s how he is there. Now this brings us to how MB became the monitors of the installations. After the Halos were activated there were no forerunners left to look after them so they need monitors. This is where MB comes in. OB had MB broken down into 8 pieces, the original MB (stays at the ark, broken and incomplete) and the AIs that would become the 7 monitors. Now comes time to name the monitors. And what better way then to name the monitors then in a way that reflects what their source did. Guilty Spark, guilty of betraying the Forerunner. Penitent Tangent, asking for forgiveness for joining the flood and betraying the Forerunner. Also spark can mean “a small amount or trace of something”, such as a small trace of the original MB. Also Tangent can mean “digressing suddenly from one course of action or thought and turning to another”, such as turning from a Rampant AI that destroyed the flood to a Monitor in charge of making sure that the Flood stays contained. I’m sure that if we met any other monitors that they would have similar monikers.
Also another side note that doesn’t really have to do with MB or 343 but does have to do with OB. In Halo 2 during the level “High Charity” Cortana is attempting to stall the Forerunner Dreadnaught from launching she says that “I'll do what I can to slow the launch sequence. There's something inside the ship... a presence that's fighting back! For a Covenant construct, it's unusually formidable.” Could it be that this construct is not Covenant but actually OB inhabiting the last ship capable of reaching the Ark? The Ship(presumably a Key ship) was needed to activate the cartographer on Earth to open the portal to the Ark, and the Librarian said that she destroyed all of her Keyships. Also Cortana had encountered Covenant AI before and not had much of a problem dealing with them (in the book First Strike, I believe) suggesting that the AI in the ship was not covenant. Anyways that was just a side note, probably not OB in the forerunner ship but it is a possibility.
Also there may be some links in the Iris ARG but i wasn't able to follow it all that much so I dont really know that much about it so if you do please feel free to add to my theory.
Well that’s my crazy theory on Mendicant Bias and the Monitors of the Halos. I might be way off due to lack of sleep from playing Halo 3 too much. Anyways let me know if you guys think I’m on to something or if I’m just seeing too much into something that isn’t really there.
P.S. – I have long been visiting these forums but this is my first post, so please be gentle. Also I got all the information from the Terminals off of Halopeida, great site.
[Edited on 10.04.2007 3:40 PM PDT]
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I'll try to hunt this down tonight.
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on the third terminal on the ark (the one under the ramp) guilty spark is arguing with someone on the terminal, when you enter gs leaves and you can see there conversation for a second, i didnt read it fast enough does anyone know what they say and who guilty spark is talking too?
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Okay, was reading through the "cortana letters" look it up if you haven't yet. They are from before the first Halo. Anyway during a letter Cortana is interupted by something. I believe that something is Mendicant Bias. Here is a portion of what he has to say.
*ADDENDUM: The Enjoyments of Genius (So I Missed a Million Miles of Fun)
Unbelievable. Thwarted by the family hound. They just don’t make AIs like they used to.
Thanks to this slavishly loyal and humorless AI, I am now sharing cramped space with the circuitry of some hybrid war machine, itself complicated by such useless clutter as a conscience. I do not like sharing. Sharing is for children.
There will be plenty of time for retribution; I cannot wait to get its hands on these psychotic zealots whose primary form of worship apparently takes place at the altar of orbital bombardment.
You'll notice he says he is cramped in a hybrid war machine. I think this might confirm that a portion of MB is stuck in the Dreadnaught and that OB stuck him there...i.e. the family hound. Plus he is laying out his plans to convert the covenant. All before the first Halo game was released. -
Just to stir things up...I think this is a great theory. Also of note, every Monitor seems to have the same personality. Bungie noted that they fly along with the same voice, giggling happily in the same way, we probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between sparks unless they tell us their names. I.E. did anyone know before bungie told us that the Spark flying around in the marsh multiplayer map is Penitent Tangent and not Guilty Spark. This adds weight to the suggestion that they are all built from the same personality construct. However, if MB is still about in its fractured state...i.e. broken into monitors. Where is OB, since he is effectively MB's jailer? Last we heard he was in the Ark as well, and presumably has control over the halo systems since they were left under his control. We also know both intellects have the ability to control multiple ships whilst not being a part of any of them...i.e. the war. Also, I believe one of the books stated that the covenant feared humans because we were inventive. That we could make new things whilst they collectively were more limited to stealing and copying technology. Therefore the covenant fly forerunner based ships as we know, which OB or MB could control without having their full attention directed at that ship. I think this adds weight to the theory that stated in Halo:CE that Cortana may have had to deal with a small portion of one of the other constructs. Not to say she wouldn't be up to the task of taking on a full forerunner construct either. We don't know any of their limits, however if the OB construct didn't want her to destroy a Halo and escape thus reducing his effectively ability to use the Halo's to defend the galaxy, he may have gotten involved and tried to limit her ability, even though he is back in the ark presumably. Suggestion 2: High Charity holds a piece of MB, so that is what cortana has to fight in the ship is a fractured part of Mendicant Bias. So when High Charity warps back into the ark MB has the final shard. Also it fits that the covenant built their technology around this forerunner flag ship, and something had to begin leading them to their religion and to the Halo's since they do not know where they all are. It makes sense that MB is affecting the development of the covenant religion through the dreadnaught ship High Charity. However, if this is the case and it is also true that MB's personality construct was broken into monitors, it would mean MB knew of his immenent defeat and saved a coherent portion of himself into the forerunner flag ship which just happens to be a key ship as well (since it opened the portal). Therefore, amongst all the confusion, whilst the librarian was destroying key ships, mendicant had to steal one and save a portion of himself in it and exclude this ship from battle. Thus leaving it unharmed for the covenant to find later. Therefore this shard of himself would be motivated to find the rest of himself, and lead the covenant down a disillusioned path. However, that still doesn't answer where Offensive Bias is now, only more theory on Mendicant Bias. [Edited on 10.22.2007 10:39 AM PDT]
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i like this theory, i just have one question, is it just mentioned in the terminals about MB or do you actually find proof some where in game?
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You need to read all of the terminal information in addition to the Iris ARG data on the wiki. 04-343 is Guilty Spark's designation. 05-032 is Mendicant Bias.
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It is not the shard that they found on reach. That crystal was destroyed by one of the marines that made it off halo. There was a shard that Tartarus found and brought to The Prophet of Truth but that shard most likely remained on High Charity. Also the shard is most likely not the index that Cortana stole because she had it with her on the Infected High Charity. High Charity did not appear at the Ark until after the Chief lowered the last of the shields in the level "The Covenant". MB mentions the shard in the 4th terminal which is accessed before High Charity arrives at the ark. Now as for Redeyedfacades response i have a few theories. The halos were indeed created before MB. However there were plenty of Forerunner around at this time to run the halos. Thats why there were research facilities on the Halos. If there were still forerunner around that had created the halos and knew how to use them why would you need a monitor to look after the halos?? The forerunner were more then capable of doing that. But after the Halos fired you would need monitors because all the forerunner died according to plan. I know its out there but Offensive Bias said he was taking MB back to the ark to study and disect him. So after disection why not take pieces of his personality and use them to make monitors to watch over the Halos. With the forerunner dead there was no one left to design new AIs, and OB probably didnt have the ability to do it, so he used the superior AI of MB, broken into fragments of course, to make the seven monitors. Named them in a way that reflected what their source had done. Also this from the terminals [b] REPORT: SECURITY BREACH 1/3 Heuristic pathology; [alpha site] experienced an inpermanent containment failure event on [spurious_data/se_ref.[?]]. The suspect data barrier interchange anomaly was detected precisely [.409 seconds] after its appearance. [u] The epicenter of the disturbance is the partition currently housing a [personality construct array] retrieved from Contender AI 05-032. <+> 0816. [/u] REPORT: SECURITY BREACH 2/3 Although [adjacent] systems reacted to the disturbance withing expected parameters, a more comprehensive investigation was undertaken. A physical search w revealed that there was no [corporeal] tampering at the [alpha site]. Interchange manipulation comparisons showed that all subunits are still active, if at slightly lower rates. Total containment failure elapsed time was [3.13 seconds] [/b] Sounds like a release of the Flood at alpha site, installation 04, by 343 Guilty Spark. And that he is the partition currently housing a personality construct array retrieved from MB.
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While playing, I certainly got the sense that 343 WAS Mendicant or at least closely related... but only because of the retribution the AI seeks in regards to betraying its masters, and the fact that 343 was supposedly the ONLY monitor who was tasked in helping a Reclaimer activate the Halo firing-array. Unless I"m mistaken of course, but I thought that ... "Last time you asked me..." in Halo:CE , was 343 referring to the first Reclaimer who had spoken to him about activating the rings. So from my understanding the array was activated on "Zero-Four", and thanks to 2401 we recieve the information that HIS Halo had fired successfully exactly ONE time. So it seems 343 is the only AI who was actively involved in firing Halo. Oh yeah... AND 343 seems very intrigued by both the Flood and Forerunner descendants - HE CARES FOR THEM BOTH! Just like Mendicant. [Edited on 10.04.2007 4:01 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RedEyedFacade [b]this theory is wayyyyy out there, but thats what makes it cool. i dont think MB and guilty spark have anything to do with eachother, heres why. the rings have to have existed before they created Medincant Bias, or at least maybe they were made at the same time. MB speaks about how the forunner would try to contain the flood, and study it, meaning the rings were around before he himself was sent in to stop them. the monitors could not have been derived from MB, because, by the time MB was defeated by Offensive Bias and brought back to the ark, the arrays had already been fired, and the forunner were dead. when MB refers to a shard, im pretty sure he was refering to the secret cortana kept from the gravemind, the index needed to fire the unfinnished array, and MBs only shot at killing the flood and achieving attonement. i could be wrong, but i think the only 2 contender class AIs were MB, and OB. stil, a cool theory though[/b][/quote] No - I think the shard MB talks about is that wacky crystal thing in the First Strike Book. It does something that messes up slipspace, gravity, and all that technological stuff. They don't really explain its use in the book, though.
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except that guilty spark said the forerunners made him, and limited his knowledge about certain things.
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last one
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[b]this theory is wayyyyy out there, but thats what makes it cool. i dont think MB and guilty spark have anything to do with eachother, heres why. the rings have to have existed before they created Medincant Bias, or at least maybe they were made at the same time. MB speaks about how the forunner would try to contain the flood, and study it, meaning the rings were around before he himself was sent in to stop them. the monitors could not have been derived from MB, because, by the time MB was defeated by Offensive Bias and brought back to the ark, the arrays had already been fired, and the forunner were dead. when MB refers to a shard, im pretty sure he was refering to the secret cortana kept from the gravemind, the index needed to fire the unfinnished array, and MBs only shot at killing the flood and achieving attonement. i could be wrong, but i think the only 2 contender class AIs were MB, and OB. stil, a cool theory though[/b]
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I like your theory and do the the massive amounts of double threads every .0024 seconds I shall also unintentionally do the bumping.
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in the game, 343 guilty spark actually states that the forerunners wisely 'compartmentalized' the information for each halo. I think the level is 'the ark'. GS has trouble opening a door or something.. I can't really remember. Each halo was different from the others. So... the monitors didn't really understand the other halo's like they did their own (obviously). It was protection just in case the flood corrupted one of them. The flood wouldn't automatically know everything about every halo, just everything about that single halo. ¿Comprende? I don't really know if this pops your balloon or not, just trying to help =)
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Brilliant! EDIT: Can anyone punch a hole in this theory? [Edited on 10.03.2007 12:22 PM PDT]
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I was thinking the same thing when I was reading all the terminals, good theory :)
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doesn't the last terminal say something about a moniter betraying it's master, and then when you read on it says something like "it looks like i will have to betray another master" maybe meaning guilty spark was about to betray master chief in the end. so that could mean could have been bendicant mias. idk it confusing. oh and if there is seven rings does anyone know if they have moniters on them too. installation 04 had 343 guilty spark and 05 had 2401 penitent tangent. just curiois if anyone knew.
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One problem... I believe that "Alpha Halo" is merely a human term given to instalation 04. Other than that, it looks failry solid.
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edit: nvm [Edited on 10.03.2007 11:57 AM PDT]
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Snappe kills Dumbledore
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Wow, that's very clever. I like how people will analyze all this stuff for myself that does not have time, and then I can come and leisurely read it. Very good post. 9/10.
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wow good thinking, nice job, I guess its pretty plausible.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] aaj222 Don't know. 343 Guilty Spark was the monitor of Installation 04. I don't think he would have any other connections with forerunners.[/quote] He [i]is[/i] forerunner technology. It is mentioned many times that his makers were forerunner. He didn't just pop out of the ground knowing crap loads of information about the rings when he had no link to them. The forerunner created 343 Guilty Spark as well as 2401 Penitent Tangent, the Sentinals, etc. That's a great theory by the way, and I didn't even think of what Cortana was talking about in Halo 2 as being a Forerunner AI, but the AI in HighCharity was "Sloppy". Cortana has said that they were throwing stuff her way and that it was nothing she couldn't handle. A little off topic but... ...there was something else someone mentioned about how the rings could be used to create copies of lifeforms and other beings. (or something along the lines of that) Does this mean that since Guilty Spark has some doings with Mendicant Bias that another copy of him can be created, since knowledge and info on 343 has been stored in the systems?
