[quote][i][b]Moderator's Notice:[/b] Preface: though I'm a moderator, I have no special sources or prior information on the Halo 3 storyline. What I post here is my speculation and analysis as a fan, and should not be considered canonical until verified by either a Bungie employee or by further analysis of the games.
(Whew, sometimes this mod gig is a pain.)
-- Steve[/i][/quote]
Going over the Legendary terminals in Halo 3 (and discussing them with folks who've read more of them than I have) I was struck by an interesting thought. Was Mendicant Bias, the authour of some of those terminal logs, someone we've already heard from? Here's my reasoning;
- Mendicant Bias was an AI created by the Forerunner to attack Gravemind in their war against the Flood 100,000 years ago... but (according to the later terminals on Legendary difficulty) was seduced by Gravemind into betraying the Forerunners and allying himself with the Flood.
- In the last terminal, Mendicant Bias is defeated by another AI (Offensive Bias) and dissected for analysis by the Forerunner. Afterwards, his remnants seem to persist and he seeks absolution from the Reclaimer:
[quote]And so here at the end of my life, I do once again betray a former master. The path ahead is fraught with peril. But I will do all I can to keep it stable - keep you safe. I'm not so foolish to think this will absolve me of my sins. One life hardly balances billions.
But I would have my masters know that I have changed.[/quote]
A forum-goer on HBO (Jillybean) pointed out that it could be likely that the dissected components could have been retasked to become the Monitors of the various Installations... explaining the "Guilty" and "Penitent" parts of the Monitor names. I think she's on to something.
But there's another aspect to consider:
- The Terminals have backwards-masked dialog in their sound effects
- Marty O'Donnell, sound god, practically did handsprings in the 9/20 podcast to cue us into listening for "more" backwards dialog in the game.
- The backwards dialog in the terminals, at least as decyphered last night, were pretty mundane stuff. But Marty wouldn't draw attention to it if it weren't important.
- The only backwards dialog in Halo 2 was that cryptic poem in the level, "Whisper in the Storm". (The best transcription of the poem that I know of is [url=http://halosm.bungie.org/story/]on HBO's story page[/url]... you can hear it in the song "Destroyer's Invocation" on the Halo 2 volume 2 soundtrack album.) Note that he is "seeking forgiveness for my horrible crimes against God and man".
- The poem is only heard twice in the game, in the cell blocks of High Charity; first, when the soon-to-be-Arbiter is dragged out by Tartarus and his Brutes, and second when the Master Chief breaks in to free the captured Marines.
- Cortana detected the presence of a very sophisticated AI in the High Charity's network when we were chasing Truth through the "High Charity" level of Halo 2.
I think that the Destroyer, the one uttering the poem in Halo 2, is another shard of Mendicant Bias's personality.
-- Steve'll turn it over to the forum for further analysis... let's see if it holds together, or gets punched full of holes.
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**SPOILERS** Well, [i]Contact Harvest[/i] proved us right. We meet Mendicant Bias as the Covenant's Oracle on the Drednought. Great work!
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this crops up in one of the terminals if you play on leg: [quote]If we start immediately – commence total biosphere elimination of life sustaining worlds (as indicated in the accompanying charts) and relocate evacuated populations to facilities such as those described in the [Onyx project] – all this could be achieved in [57,1590 (+ or – 2,1842) hours].[/quote] anyone read Ghosts of Onyx? [Edited on 10.26.2007 11:30 AM PDT]
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The discussion isn't "solved", and you should probably discuss the Legendary ending in a different thread, unless you believe it contributes to the MB storyline.
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I like the thought process of the thread. When Cortana is on High Charity she says something to the effect of, I keep what I steal... Is that a ref from a past Halo game or is that significant? I was under the impression that MB was finally defeated on an index planet, and without starting an online riot, im thinking ONYX. That fits with his quote of, "in the upper atmosphere of a world far distant from here." even with all this solved that leaves the question of... Who is the next threat?
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since no one has said so, to whoever asked the significance of 343 in GS's name, he introduces himself in H1 like this: "Greetings i am the monitor of installation 04. [i]I am 343 guilty spark[/i] Also, has anyone got the 7 terminals, and read all the way to the end of T7, where it says "No there is more, but you are not worthy"? I was playing through it with a friend and i showed him where it was, and when we read it, the message after the first bit corrupts had changed to read: [quote][u]Page 1[/u] You don't know the contortions i had to go through to follow you here, Reclaimer. I know what you're here for. What position do I take? Will I follow one betrayal with another? [u]Page 2[/u] You're going to say I'm making a habit of turning on my masters. But the one that destroyed me long ago, in the upper atmosphere of a world far distant from here, was an implement far cruder than I. My weakness was my capacity - unintentional though it was - to choose the Flood. A mistake my makers would not soon forgive. But I want something far different from you, Reclaimer. Atonement. [u]Page 3[/u] And so here at the end of my life, I do once again betray a former master. The path ahead is fraught with peril. But I will do all I can to keep it stable - Keep you safe. I'm not so foolish to think this will absolve me of my sins. One life hardly balances billions. But i would have my masters know that I have changed. And you shall be my example.[/quote] Any thoughts? also the names tangent and spark, to me hint very slightly of sections and parts, even though they don't mean that at all might i also add that this didn't appear until after i had the "reclaimer" acheiment. i always read this one to chek if i'm worthy, and i checked it whilst doing a points run, and i was still not worthy. when i came back with my friend i had the acheivment and the message had changed [Edited on 10.26.2007 10:32 AM PDT]
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From the red terminal error text (which seems to be MB speaking): "I found the shard that was lost. They brought it back to me. Now my reconstruction cannot be stopped." So a shard of MB was on High Charity... and now that he has it back... ?!?
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has anyone given though to Mendicant Bias being Durandal?
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Some of them were conversations between the two AI so I guess some of the off world reports could have been by him.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Treemonkeys Bump, since this is the most interesting plot discussion I've seen yet.[/quote]
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Here it is- pretty long... http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=13233687&postRepeater1-p=1
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Relax427 Anyone reading the other Terminal Discussion thread? You get these two groups together- we might be able to figure it all out....[/quote] I have not seen it. Would like to, though....
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Anyone reading the other Terminal Discussion thread? You get these two groups together- we might be able to figure it all out....
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more arg woot!
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On terminal 6/7, when it has a fit and goes read theres text on the right saying "I Win".....dun dun dun!
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Bump, since this is the most interesting plot discussion I've seen yet.
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this has something to do with AdjutantReflex right?
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HELL MAYBE MENDICANT WAS THE PRECURSOR!!!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AJAQ The point of Two Betrayals: Wasn't there only one betrayal in that cutscene? You have Spark betraying John. What is the other one? I never could figure it out. (I doubt it refers to the prophets betraying the covenant.) What else from halo1 IS the second betrayal?[/quote] Maybe one of these two things? 1) 343 GS betraying John followed by John betraying 343 GS (by not activating the ring) 2) 343 GS betraying John in Halo: CE, then betraying him [i]again[/i] in Halo 3. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] K79 This is so utterly amazing... Where one game company would be content with just making a successful franchise, Bungie has set up an entire background story for us to discover... I wonder how long they've had it all planned out, given that there are so many tie ins back to Halo CE.[/quote] Bungie had much of the universe in place years before Halo: CE came out. In fact, they had a good chunk of it laid out by the time the Cortana letters came out in 1999.
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Two explanations, each equally possible: 1. Mendicant Bias betrayed the Forerunner (1), wheras his successor (343GS) betrayed the Forerunner's successors (specifically John-117, a Reclaimer) (2). The title, and level itself, was meant to forshadow MB's story. This obviously assumes that Bungie had planned at least as far in advance to have already decided on MB, his relevance, and his decisions (which is a big assumption). 2. Cortana went rampant while within 04's computer systems; her "assistance" from then on a byproduct of her grand scheme to accomplish something (something we won't know until the next Halo-themed game, one that gets away from the Ark story arc and begins focusing on her degeneration as evidenced by Halo 1-3). Given her noticeable shift in attitude upon the Chief's return (something I noticed immediately on my first playthrough in 2001 even having not played or learned anything of Marathon and Rampancy) I would say this is possible. Perhaps even likely given the obvious emphasis Bungie continues to place on her exposure to what in Marathon (and presumably Halo) would be Rampancy-inducing stimuli (large planetary network [Halo], great stress [Gravemind], realization of limits/being ["I'm a shadow of my mother..."], overuse [the 7 year lifespan]). I do think we are meant to be distrustful of Cortana somewhat. I've felt she has had ulterior motives since Two Betrayals. Even beyond her mannerisms her name itself is similar to Durandal. [Edited on 10.03.2007 1:41 PM PDT]
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[quote] consisting of [a thousand billion] coordinated minds inhabiting as many bodies as circumstances require [/quote] Im not as into to this as the rest of you guys, But I thought This statement had something to do with the flood. "Inhabiting as many bodies as circumstances require".
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This is so utterly amazing... Where one game company would be content with just making a successful franchise, Bungie has set up an entire background story for us to discover... I wonder how long they've had it all planned out, given that there are so many tie ins back to Halo CE.
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Steve(Anton if you prefer), can you sticky this thread, and the Terminal Discussion thread that reposts all the Legendary terminal dialogue??? Lots of great info and ideas all over the place in these two
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PowderBB3D spoilz Unless I'm mistaken, it's worth noting that 343GS actually speaks with MB through one of the terminals. It's the one the blue texted frequently prefaced with (errant) - if you run right into the room when you get there you'll notice that there are pictures of 343GS interfacing with the terminal on the left hand side. If you wait, however, go into the next room and clear out the enemies in there, and *then* go access the terminal 343GS will zip past you humming from inside the terminal room as you open door. The terminal appears active, presumably from his recent use of it. If 343GS is speaking to MB, of whom he is a copy, would not at least MB have responded differently? [b]In that conversation MB says (basically) "get out of my house or I'll (have the sentinels) shoot you in the face."[/b] His wordchoice is very cold, distant, robotic - not something you would expect from someone who is essentially confronting his progeny. Even if he was never told that aspects of his personality were retasked to the monitor roles I would think him clever enough to quickly deduce this upon meeting/interfacing/probing 343GS. 343GS, meanwhile, attempts to probe MB for information about what is going on with the Ark. It is here he finds out about the reconstruction of 04 in the Foundry.[/quote] Ahem...Master Chief shoots 343GS in the "face" with the spartan laser at the end of the level. (Sorry if this was posted, I read it and got excited when I remembered this lol...)
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nice thread
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The point of Two Betrayals: Wasn't there only one betrayal in that cutscene? You have Spark betraying John. What is the other one? I never could figure it out. (I doubt it refers to the prophets betraying the covenant.) What else from halo1 IS the second betrayal?
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It might make sense or might not, but during one of the novels (first strike I think?) Cortana traps a ship AI and disects it code by code. At its core she found that its programming was almost just like her own. I always suspected that someone did not initiated the cole protocal and someone let there AI get captured. But now with this new theory, and the with the Halo 3 story saying that we are sons of the forerunners, you might be on to something here.