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9/22/2007 9:44:51 PM
402
HDTV Splitscreen problem! 4:3 Aspect ratio??!?!?!
As some of you know, I recieved my Halo 3 copy today from the Pontiac contest. I have been playing campaign fine by myself for about an hour. My brother just got here and we went in to do some splitscreen co-op campaign, and bam... Theres black bars on the left and right side of the screen! I tried going through every setting, reading the manual, checked my Xbox360 settings but it wont change! Any suggestions (or anyone else with their copy confirm this issue?)
Thanks.
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...or they could of just had the split screen vertical or they could of allowed 16:4.5. I would prefer either of the above when playing co-op with a friend. It should be up to the user to choose how they want it. We should not be forced into using this mode and risking burn in and losing a significant amount of screen. Both of these methods would put someone playing with these choices at a disadvantage but it should be up to us if we want to put ourselves at a disadvantage in this way or if we would rather go with the default original aspect mode. Frankly it sucks IMO and while I love the game as a whole, this aspect certainly has diminished the appeal of playing co-op with a friend for me. It was my favorite aspect of the Halo games and I guess I'm stuck just playing over live for co-op.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cova They're as black as the TV can make them, which should be very close to as black as is the screen was off completely - .[/quote] [b]How much more black could they be? And the answer is none... None more black.[/b] Srsly, guys... Hang tight- the waaaaahmbulance is on the way. Bungie ain't gonna fix what ain't technically broke. (They're all partying in Ibiza with your cash.) If you ask me (which I fully recognize, you didn't) ANY reduction of the original full 16:9 screen into parcels for more than one person on the same screen comes with inherent tradeoffs. I think Bungie's decision to stay true to the original aspect ratio was the right call. (Okay, everyone open the attached packets and insert the rock salt between your cheek and gum) Actually, come to think of it, overlaying the screens directly on top of each other and needing red and blue filter glasses to play would have been even better(a discrete red and blue image.. You could have same screen vs. play that way too. Red vs. Blue, huh??huh??!!)) . And also an option to play single-player in 3D. Let's start a thread to have Bungie fix Halo3 so it's in 3D too (Halo3D, riiiiight?) Now I'm really horked that Bungie didn't think of this and include it as an option. This needs to be addressed NOW and patched before I go to bed tonight. How dare they release such an incomplete and unrealized piece of -blam!-. WAAAAAAHHHHH!... Oh - my ride is here. Please folks, just kidding... But srsly, 16:9x2 ftw.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus Ok got sick of this [b]so here everyone is a picture! Click this link for a graphical representation (to scale) http://www.protonus.ws/img/splitscreen.jpg[/b] To "get rid of the black bars" or blue bars as they are in my picture, you have to either: 1. STRETCH the horizontal resolution of the display, to DOUBLE what it currently is (a 200% stretch). This would make everything that is currently circular, appear to be an oval twice as wide as it is tall. THis would also look horrible. 2. EXPAND the field of view (the area you can see on the screen at any given time), to 2x what it is now, 200% larger Field of View. Anyone playing splitscreen would now have twice the periphreal vision they have now. This is a HUGE advantage, and would make the game extremely unbalanced. Both options are INCORRECT and BAD IDEAS for obvious reasons if you actually take the time to think about it. [b]SPLITTING THE SCREEN VERTICALLY WON'T HELP EITHER. IN FACT IT'S WORSE - It's why people hated splitscreen in Halo 2![/b] IT would be the same size image now just side by side (which is more confusing to the eye) as you're still halving the size of the display. If you wanted it to then FILL the screen vertically, you'd still have to have a 200 % VERTICAL stretch, OR, cut the WIDTH of the field of view in HALF! That's even worse! Don't even bother replying to this threadi f you don't read this post or I will point out your ignorance. [/quote] I'm not going to bother answering all of this, but after reading throught this very long topic, I've realised something. You are a complete idiot. Yes I know it's the correct aspect ratio, and yes I know increasing the FoV might give a slight advantage in hardcore multiplayers. But this isn't what this thread is all about. It's about 2 player coop in offline gameplay. People would like to choose for themselves if they think it's an advantage or disadvantage. ** NOTE ** I am NOT talking about online multiplayer, ONLY offline multiplayer ** END OF NOTE ** If I'm going to play online, It will be with my friends, and not trying to be the best of the best or anything like that. I don't care about that, because I'm not that kind of hardcore FPS player. I play the game for fun. And not having an option to increase the FoV to fill the screen when playing 2player coop offline is sort of taking a little of the fun away, because now you: A) Have to sit closer to your TV or B) Buy a bigger TV, as you have said so many many times that it's starting to get on my last nerves.
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Okay I'm sure we ALL understand the logic behind to WHY they did this and it makes sense to a certain point. But I'm sure people will stiill agree its -blam!- stupid because we have been use to the original split-screen display and this is just something to get use to. IT makes sense to why they did it but no one likes it obviously cuz no other games do it.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus To "get rid of the black bars" or blue bars as they are in my picture, you have to either: 1. STRETCH the horizontal resolution of the display, to DOUBLE what it currently is (a 200% stretch). This would make everything that is currently circular, appear to be an oval twice as wide as it is tall. THis would also look horrible. 2. EXPAND the field of view (the area you can see on the screen at any given time), to 2x what it is now, 200% larger Field of View. Anyone playing splitscreen would now have twice the periphreal vision they have now. This is a HUGE advantage, and would make the game extremely unbalanced. Both options are INCORRECT and BAD IDEAS for obvious reasons if you actually take the time to think about it. [/quote] Or 3. Pretend it was full-screen 16:9 - crop the top and bottom 1/4 of the image, leaving a 16:4.5 image that is NOT stretched, and has an IDENTICAL FOV to every other player. It should be MY option to throw out 1/2 of my vertical FOV if that is the way I like to play. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus Don't even bother replying to this threadi f you don't read this post or I will point out your ignorance. [/quote] You should just do like I said a few posts back and stop posting yourself. Or maybe I'll go back through the thread and point out every piece of mis-information you've posted so far. It'd give me something to do if I get bored at work tomorrow and can't go home to play Halo.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cova Plasma's and CRT's (tubes, rear, or front-projection) both suffer from burn-in - they both work on the principle that phosphors will glow when charged, and phosphors slowly wear out. Displaying black bars on the sides will result in those area's of the screen not wearing evenly (they won't wear out) which results in the sides of your screen having a higher contrast and brightness than the center..[/quote] Uh... except when your displaying the "black bars" they're not really black. The phosphors are still lit. it's not like they are off, they're just energized to their lowest possible limit. That's why when you turn on a TV displaying a "black image" it's still brighter then it was when it's off. And you would be burning the "middle" of the image in, not the darkened areas as screen burn increases with the intensity of the image. Reguardless as stated the HUD is much more of a threat to your screen. [/quote] They're as black as the TV can make them, which should be very close to as black as is the screen was off completely - and even considering that everything I said in my other post still holds true - the black area's don't wear as fast, so when you do watch a wide-screen movie you'll have brighter bars down the sides. This is why many wide-screen TV's (especially those technologies susceptible to burn-in such as plasma) use grey bars on the sides when they're displaying a 4:3 image. Oh course, even split-screen Halo3 is still sending a 16:9 image to the TV - just with solid black on the sides - so people with such TV's won't even get that bit of protection. The burn-in argument doesn't matter to me anyways, my TV being a rear-projection DLP it is immune to any kind of burn-in. But at 58" those black bars are a LOT of screen space that I'd much rather have picture in.
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Ok got sick of this [b]so here everyone is a picture! Click this link for a graphical representation (to scale) http://www.protonus.ws/img/splitscreen.jpg[/b] To "get rid of the black bars" or blue bars as they are in my picture, you have to either: 1. STRETCH the horizontal resolution of the display, to DOUBLE what it currently is (a 200% stretch). This would make everything that is currently circular, appear to be an oval twice as wide as it is tall. THis would also look horrible. 2. EXPAND the field of view (the area you can see on the screen at any given time), to 2x what it is now, 200% larger Field of View. Anyone playing splitscreen would now have twice the periphreal vision they have now. This is a HUGE advantage, and would make the game extremely unbalanced. Both options are INCORRECT and BAD IDEAS for obvious reasons if you actually take the time to think about it. [b]SPLITTING THE SCREEN VERTICALLY WON'T HELP EITHER. IN FACT IT'S WORSE - It's why people hated splitscreen in Halo 2![/b] IT would be the same size image now just side by side (which is more confusing to the eye) as you're still halving the size of the display. If you wanted it to then FILL the screen vertically, you'd still have to have a 200 % VERTICAL stretch, OR, cut the WIDTH of the field of view in HALF! That's even worse! Don't even bother replying to this threadi f you don't read this post or I will point out your ignorance.
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LCD and Plasma still suffer from Burn in, its inevitable after leaving a bright pixel on next to an off/black. My work has new plasmas and we run a looping video on it for the most part of the day, around the edges of the video is about 1" of black that didnt fill the screen, and now the TVs have terrible burn in. Most new TVs will have some sort of Burn in protection, a warning, or a screen dimmer. Something of the sort. But to be realistic, [b]on a decient TV[/b] burn in wouldnt happen unless you played splitscreen for 15hrs a day, every day for a month.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cova Plasma's and CRT's (tubes, rear, or front-projection) both suffer from burn-in - they both work on the principle that phosphors will glow when charged, and phosphors slowly wear out. Displaying black bars on the sides will result in those area's of the screen not wearing evenly (they won't wear out) which results in the sides of your screen having a higher contrast and brightness than the center..[/quote] Uh... except when your displaying the "black bars" they're not really black. The phosphors are still lit. it's not like they are off, they're just energized to their lowest possible limit. That's why when you turn on a TV displaying a "black image" it's still brighter then it was when it's off. And you would be burning the "middle" of the image in, not the darkened areas as screen burn increases with the intensity of the image. Reguardless as stated the HUD is much more of a threat to your screen.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SymTaC NO, it isn't. Sigh, do you know how LCD reproduction works in HD content? Here, read up son: http://pixelmapping.wikispaces.com/Pixel+mapping+explained[/quote] LoL. That has nothing to do with this. Your just throwing words around you dont' understand to make yourself look smarter. Which you obviously aren't.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus TV's made in the last 5 years, reguardless of type (DLP, CRT, LCD, LCoS,) hell for the most part the last decade if not more, do not get screen burn in. It simply is no longer an issue. The SDTV (as in, not HDTV) CRT Projection TV's using antiquated 5" SDTV CRT's, were about the last thing that had the problem, and who has bought an SDTV Projection TV in the last 5 years? Only complete fools... Furthermore if you were concerned about it - you should be FAR more concerned about the "indicators" on the screen like ammo, shield, and radar etc that infrequently change and are BRIGHT. You aren't going to get screen burn on a CRT with a "dark" image. You get it with bright ones. You don't want screen burn? Don't play games. [/quote] Ok - just stop posting in this thread - all your replies over the last couple pages contribute NOTHING to the discussion (yes, we get the point that you don't want proper wide-screen support added), and most of them are wrong - the quoted one above being an example of both. Plasma's and CRT's (tubes, rear, or front-projection) both suffer from burn-in - they both work on the principle that phosphors will glow when charged, and phosphors slowly wear out. Displaying black bars on the sides will result in those area's of the screen not wearing evenly (they won't wear out) which results in the sides of your screen having a higher contrast and brightness than the center. Back to the topic at hand..., I could also make the argument that 2-way split-screen is NOT HD. All HD is wide-screen, 2-way split-screen is 4:3, therefore 2-way split-screen is not HD. I realize I'm spinning it pretty far with that logic - but how long before Sony/Nintendo jump on that bandwagon; they'll use any excuse they can to make MS look bad, and will spin it far worse than I have.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zoolader m83 This issue is ruining split screen for me and my friend. We always play 1vs.1 splitscreen, and last night we weren't able to get rid of the black side bars. We had to turn off HD and play in 480p so we could use the whole screen, otherwise the screens are just too small[/quote] Ugh. IF they STRECHED it or EXPANDED the field of view, it's THE SAME SIZE STILL. You aren't "seeing" anything more. the characters in front of your gun, would still be the same exact height as they are right now. So there is no way they could "fix" this to make it "bigger" with out you buying a bigger TV! I don't understand why people can't comprehend this? Your 16:9 widescreen display is a rectangle right? So stack two 16:9 displays (what you have when you split th screen) and what do you get? A approxmate square. And that's what your getting. The correct width for the height it's displaying. [/quote] I never said his Tv is widescreen, infact it's just square
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Krono89 I'd just like to add in that I DO NOT WANT screen burn in,[/quote] TV's made in the last 5 years, reguardless of type (DLP, CRT, LCD, LCoS,) hell for the most part the last decade if not more, do not get screen burn in. It simply is no longer an issue. The SDTV (as in, not HDTV) CRT Projection TV's using antiquated 5" SDTV CRT's, were about the last thing that had the problem, and who has bought an SDTV Projection TV in the last 5 years? Only complete fools... Furthermore if you were concerned about it - you should be FAR more concerned about the "indicators" on the screen like ammo, shield, and radar etc that infrequently change and are BRIGHT. You aren't going to get screen burn on a CRT with a "dark" image. You get it with bright ones. You don't want screen burn? Don't play games. [/quote] I was just at my friends house for lunch playing Halo 3 on his plasma TV. He was nice to point out the screen burn from playing the night before. His TV is about 6 months old. So I'm not sure who your info is from but Plasma TV's still suffer from screen burn.
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i'm completely baffled by the fact that so many people are upset about this! i was happy when i loaded up split screen and saw something that was actually playable on a 16:9 display. finally someone got it right. i absolutely hated playing halo2 split-screen on a 16:9 display, completely avoided it; it looked like utter crap to me. i also stretched the image in halo3 to get rid of the bars, it looks horrible. the only other option that they could have gone with that i would have liked would have been putting the bars on the top and bottom and splitting it vertically. i think most people are just mad because bungie is cutting a few inches off of their 50-something-inch TV they spent so many thousands of dollars on. sure, i guess it kinda sucks...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Shootydog Why share the real estate? Tell your coop buddys to get their own TV. Poor babies. Heh, I dont have to share. I get all 65 inches of widescreen glory all to myself. And there is a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why this occurs and it has been expounded upon in this very thread. Ignorance breeds contempt. Read up on it.[/quote] Why it occurs is not in question!!!!! We all know that!! (jeez...I hope) The "why" in question...is WHY did they choose this method of split screen?!?!? Once again, who asked for this.....?!?!?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Protonus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Krono89 I'd just like to add in that I DO NOT WANT screen burn in,[/quote] TV's made in the last 5 years, reguardless of type (DLP, CRT, LCD, LCoS,) hell for the most part the last decade if not more, do not get screen burn in. It simply is no longer an issue. The SDTV (as in, not HDTV) CRT Projection TV's using antiquated 5" SDTV CRT's, were about the last thing that had the problem, and who has bought an SDTV Projection TV in the last 5 years? Only complete fools... Furthermore if you were concerned about it - you should be FAR more concerned about the "indicators" on the screen like ammo, shield, and radar etc that infrequently change and are BRIGHT. You aren't going to get screen burn on a CRT with a "dark" image. You get it with bright ones. You don't want screen burn? Don't play games. [/quote] Just really want your attention and anyone else who is SOOO vigorously defending this choice...I posted this above and now again ------------- Find me a post anywhere on the internet where someone said: "You know what would be cool....if they made the split co-op 4:3 and put black bars on the side, that way we kept the 16:9 perspective the game makers intended, wouldn't that be awesome??!?!?!" I HIGHLY doubt you'll find such a post!!! Or in other words who asked for this??????
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Why share the real estate? Tell your coop buddys to get their own TV. Poor babies. Heh, I dont have to share. I get all 65 inches of widescreen glory all to myself. And there is a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why this occurs and it has been expounded upon in this very thread. Ignorance breeds contempt. Read up on it.
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You have much bigger problems than issues with Halo 3 if you're someone who uses ignorant and prejudiced words like, "jew'd".
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Krono89 I'd just like to add in that I DO NOT WANT screen burn in,[/quote] TV's made in the last 5 years, reguardless of type (DLP, CRT, LCD, LCoS,) hell for the most part the last decade if not more, do not get screen burn in. It simply is no longer an issue. The SDTV (as in, not HDTV) CRT Projection TV's using antiquated 5" SDTV CRT's, were about the last thing that had the problem, and who has bought an SDTV Projection TV in the last 5 years? Only complete fools... Furthermore if you were concerned about it - you should be FAR more concerned about the "indicators" on the screen like ammo, shield, and radar etc that infrequently change and are BRIGHT. You aren't going to get screen burn on a CRT with a "dark" image. You get it with bright ones. You don't want screen burn? Don't play games.
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NO, it isn't. Sigh, do you know how LCD reproduction works in HD content? Here, read up son: http://pixelmapping.wikispaces.com/Pixel+mapping+explained [Edited on 09.26.2007 4:59 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SymTaC Split screen looks like crap. Bungie is too lazy to allow 16x9, even though most TV's come with 1:1 pixel mapping so there is no distortion what so ever. Whoever had this bright idea is a complete idiot. Other games do it; it's not stretching, it's keeping the original image in tact. Basically, Bungie coders are probably the laziest people alive and picked the easiest way out, just to keep the aspect ratio to 4:3. -blam!- coding, sigh.[/quote] Actually, your lazy, you didn't read any posts before you, so you're the idiot. It IS showing the original image, in tact. If it used the whole screen you'd be stretching or having an increased field of view.
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Yeah well why didn't they inlcude vertical split screen? I think it's extremely lame they didn't.
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People telling others to go BUY a new TV.........well, I try not to call people names, so I'll use a clean one. You're a jerk!!! You should clearly work for SONY! Most people here COMPLETELY understand why it's the way it is, and COMPLETELY understand it's not broke. However, they'd like the PREFERENCE to choose a stretched view OR a crushed view in a vertical split. Yes - EVERY OTHER GAME GOT IT WRONG! GEARS OR WAR! COD2 & 3! GRAW!! etc!!!! GUESS WHAT?!?!?!??!? Apparently people LIKED IT THAT WAY!!! Find me a post anywhere on the internet where someone said: "You know what would be cool....if they made the split co-op 4:3 and put black bars on the side, that way we kept the 16:9 perspective the game makers intended, wouldn't that be awesome??!?!?!" I HIGHLY doubt you'll find such a post!!! [Edited on 09.26.2007 4:59 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] pAti3nc3 I have the same problem and i am beyond upset. I payed alot of money for a HD tv and when i go into co-op to play with my brother to play we have black bars on the left and right side. I don't care what other games can do it. I don't care why bungie chose to do this or what aspect ratio they use. I want to see the game in full no black bars. Or atleast an answer from bungie themselves explaining why they had to ruin co-op and in general my first day of Halo 3. I tried to make a new topic but the link is down so for now I will just add to this. HD co-op black bar problem is going to be a new topic we must get this fixed or a straight answer from someone high up in the chain of command at bungie. I personally won't take this lying down and i don't care what excuse they may have for me. Also i noticed that when the video comes on after you haven't touched the menu it shows 4 player split-screen using the full 32" widescreen i have. Why should 2 players not have full widescreen. Regardless of ratios and stretching this should be done! If you feel like I feel then September 25 is a day we should not remember as halo 3's release but as halo 3 Two player co-op gets the shaft.!!![/quote] haha man you are stupid. Hold on the president of bungie is on the phone to personally explain to you, the guy with a 32" TV why mathematically the game would be unproportional. The answer has been carefully explained over and over. It's actually a setting on your tv not the system or the game. Many people have figured out how to make it full screen. Maybe you should just wait for the president to call you and help you out. DAMN THE MAN FIGHT THE SYSTEM
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I'd just like to add in that I DO NOT WANT screen burn in, I am not willing to play in 480p to keep that from happening. I expect a patch that will allow me to stretch my display if I want to. It wouldn't have been that hard to implement, I know because I've whipped up mods for older stuff on PC that utilizes a 4:3 AR, there is no reason I should have to worry about screen burn in when I and my friends play split screen on Live for hours and hours. Also, if you've only got a 19 inch LCD display, having two 9.5 inch displays really sucks.
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Split screen looks like crap. Bungie is too lazy to allow 16x9, even though most TV's come with 1:1 pixel mapping so there is no distortion what so ever. Whoever had this bright idea is a complete idiot. Other games do it; it's not stretching, it's keeping the original image in tact. Basically, Bungie coders are probably the laziest people alive and picked the easiest way out, just to keep the aspect ratio to 4:3. -blam!- coding, sigh.
