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#Halo

8/12/2007 5:09:41 AM
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Crosshair Position In Halo 3

Ok I would like to hear an explanation from Bungie's UI designer, of why the crosshair is located below the center of the screen, and why they changed this for Halo 2 and 3. And why there has been almost no complaints about it. And if your opinion is "it doesn't bother me", don't post that, because logically you woudn't be bothered by it in the center. If someone has a good reason to justify this, please post, as I have yet to find one, other than it being annoying. And saying "because thats how it was in Halo 2" isn't an awnser either, I want to know why this was done originally. Example of the situation. Here is a picture of what I'm taking about to the people who didn't "Notice" it. [url]http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5640/h3e307fp01ka9.jpg[/url] Also, its not because of the gun pointing there, the guns are modeled to point at the crosshair, not the other way around. Bungie originally had the AR model pointing to the middle of the screen. [url]http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crosshairmiddlelo8.jpg[/url] I now intend to keep this thread going until I either get a response from Bungie, on why the crosshair is there, or the shear quantity of some of you posting immature responses gets this thread locked. Another thing, I love Halo, I'm NOT trying to hurt it in any way. This is about Constructive Criticism. EDIT: Ok since this topic got ressurected, I might aswell throw up another example of a situation where having the crosshair in the middle is more natural. [url]http://media.1up.com/media?id=3379465&type=lg[/url] Now look at the brute on the ledge there, and note everything gonig on below him. Now if you where playing the game, you naturally look towards the center of the screen, so you see the brute directly in the middle. Now imagine there is also a few more enemies comming up that space between the 2 rocks at the bottom of your screen. Let's say you pull out your BR and try to headshot the Brute. If it was in the middle, your already seeing what you would see if you where to shoot him right away. But since your crosshair is lower now, you have to look up even more, seeing more jungle top, and less below you, and could potentially miss any enemies sneaking up that pass. Another example, [url]http://www.1up.com/do/slideshow?pager.offset=0&mt=0&cId=3144308&mId=3379464[/url] Heres the scenario, you just came around a rock and came face to face with this baddy, now with the crooshair in the middle, your already at perfect headshot level, and he dies. But with the current crosshair level ,your just slightly below headhsot level, and have to quickly look up, potentially dieing. 2 examples where it is more natural to have the crosshair, where you naturally look, the center of the screen. Besdies the real reason I thought of is the melee lunge. Now that the game makes your melees hit for you, if your crosshair was at an upwards angle, you would fly upwards when you hit B to melee, potentially flying off the enemy. Now that your gun, and your aimer are at perfect level, you auto melee straight instead of at an upwards level. Yet again another problem caused by the melee lunge system. So far its killed fall damage(melee lunging with fall damage caused death), and now centered crosshairs. And another thing, if all you guys hate centered crosshairs, then why in third person do you have the crosshair, in dead center. All your reasoning to prove why being below center should therefore be even more applicable to why it should be below center for third person, especially since you see more masterchief, and less sky with it in the middle. This next part is for all you "realism" lovers. In real life, when you want to shoot something, you look at it with the "center" of your vision. You then adjust your gun, so that it hits your target. You don't find something in the center of your vision, then move your whole body up so your guns barrel is aligned to the target, yet your center of vision is 5 feet above where your target is. Another thing, when you shoulder a gun, you point it at an upwards angle(varying degree to where your target is) and you align it to your center of vision. Now heres my realism argument to all you guys. This is to everyone who say "zomg you dont hold the gun right next to your head" Well this is for you. Explain to me then, how the masterchief can see his shoulder stock in first person. [url]http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screenshots/H3_E307_FP01.jpg[/url] That would mean the gun, is right next to his head. And all of you are saying its not, are therefor immediatly wrong. The more realistic view of a shouldered weapon is this. [url]http://www.emunova.net/img/tests/938.jpg[/url]. Because, your head is actually above your shoulders. Now I'll explain this for you, the reason Masterchief can see his shoulder stock IS becasue his gun is right next to his head. [url]http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screenshots/H3_E307_FP01.jpg[/url] And therefor, he does have the gun next to his head, and therefor your argument that the crosshair can't be in the middle of his vision because the gun isn't next to his head is mute. Normal people in real life, look at what there going to shoot, and then adjust the gun accordingly. Unless theres some of you here that actually look above your target while aiming with your lower peripheral vision. And just to add again to all those people who think I'm a Halo hater, I'm probably 5 times the fanboy they are, combined. I care so much, that I will pick at every little detail(you name it, I've mentioned it), because I'm a perfectionist. And again, this mainly goes out to Bungie, simply asking as to why, this "design choice", was made, and how in there eyes, it benefits the game. [Edited on 09.02.2007 3:15 AM PDT] [Edited on 09.02.2007 3:49 AM PDT]
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  • [B]STOP REVIVING THIS THREAD, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT DIE![/B]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ponkapoag This is an honest question - how does the crosshair position being off-center by, what, like 5% dilute the quality of the game? It can't be a balance thing, because we all have the same thing. The claim that people on higher ground have an advantage because their crosshair is SLIGHTLY lower (and thus aiming downward takes less time than aiming upward - which is a dubious claim at best) is pretty insignificant, considering the fact that how many people REALLY run around with the crosshair in it's default position? I think that is a faulty claim - most people have the crosshairs constantly pointed at where they anticipate the enemy to be making the default position kind of irrelevant at all times other than spawning. Again - I really am just confused byt htis argument. [/quote]It's because people have nothing left to complain about. Everything that was a [i]real[/i] issue has been addressed, and this thread continues to look more important than it is because of a very few (perhaps just one) thread bumper/bumpers.

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  • damn i was at this forum a while back houd it get back to 1st page?

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  • I agree with you ponkapoag, people do all the time have the crosshair were they think the enemy is going to be, but the problem is that a lot of people (including me) are used to having the crosshair in the center , like it has been since fps started and 98% of other games that are out there. thats why it feels a bit weird for some, having it lower. a simple option in a future update would be great for some of us. if you like it where it is, great. but if you dont, why not have the option of changing it. so whats the big deal?

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  • This is an honest question - how does the crosshair position being off-center by, what, like 5% dilute the quality of the game? It can't be a balance thing, because we all have the same thing. The claim that people on higher ground have an advantage because their crosshair is SLIGHTLY lower (and thus aiming downward takes less time than aiming upward - which is a dubious claim at best) is pretty insignificant, considering the fact that how many people REALLY run around with the crosshair in it's default position? I think that is a faulty claim - most people have the crosshairs constantly pointed at where they anticipate the enemy to be making the default position kind of irrelevant at all times other than spawning. Again - I really am just confused byt htis argument.

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  • I agree with you Dark. i played halo 1 more and 2, just because of that. we all know it has gone gold and its being mass produced but and update later on that adds this as an option wouldn't be such a big deal would it. i think we can make a formal request to bungie . if enough people are in on it.............. thoughts?.

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  • in reference to halo 2. I know...trust me. thats where teh issue originated. We are aware its already being produced. just hoping for an update for the adjustment or an option. I enjoyed halo 1 and in actuality played it more because the sights were in the correct spot. Yes i know. i can keep playing that. but its like that good game that couldve been GREAT if this little thing happened etc.

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  • stop reviving this stupid, dead thread... mmkay? it's over... and there wasn't ever going to be a resolution because people like different things and there's no way to make everyone happy... so live with it and kill this thread...

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  • halo 2 dosent have it in the center either, so who cares, its a littler bit twords the bottom too, its prob not gonna change, the game is already being mass produced.

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  • obviously its still an issue among a good amount of people including myself, considering the amount of replies etc.

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  • please let this thread die... the games gold... If you cant stand the slight diffrence in crosshair position, its just because you forgot your OCD medication.

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  • i hope they change it the guns in halo 2 are practically kissing each other because the cross hair is so low its very annoying no field of view what so ever [Edited on 09.13.2007 1:35 PM PDT]

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  • im gonna say this once more. The lowered sight WAS NOT INTENTIONAL in number 2. There is NO PURPOSE TO IT! IT WAS A **** UP ON BUNGIES PART. I apologize for those being in caps but i wanted people to really focus on those points. In the dvd of halo 2 you see a scene of the guys going oh man we screwed up. the bullets are hitting like an inch below (and inch on a tv MATTERS trust me.) where the target recticle is. So instead of gearing up and pointing the gun to the middle of the screen or hell even simply adjusting the bullet code to hit dead center. They lowered the sights. It also does affect gameplay for simple reasons. I dont like feeling as though im peaking over a desk when shooting at someones face. I sincerely hope bungie was smart enough to put in an option at least to re center the sights.

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  • Now let me say something before someone cuts my head off. no im not a game designer, yes i know it has gone gold but how hard would it be to add this as an option in a future update?. everybody would be happy right? people that like it lower can have it lower like it is and people who dont, can raise it too, so why b!tch about it and say "i dont care bla bla" or "ur so stupid, i cant beleive you posted this". i think i got used h1 and 99% of every other FPS's. so why i hear people even b!tchin' on " NO ADDING IT AS AN OPTION IS TOTALLY STUPID, NEWB ASS" when it could probably not affect people that like it anyway?. so why not say " yea having it as option is probably fine i dont care if its there, i like mine as it is". So please if a bungie developer is reading this , please help making this as an option i dont ask for anything else. i dont ask on the grenade distance thing or why i cant destroy the whole environment. i just ask for something that is standard in any other fps and third person shooters even. thank you for your attention.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General Anubis I imagine that it is probably to add a bit of realism into actual gun positioning, the way the gun is held makes it more realistic for the reticule to be slightly lower than the center. And really I don't think it gives an advantage to people on higher ground, but then again it might be just for that reason. After all, in real life, having the higher ground in a firefight [i]does[/i] grant at least a little advantage.[/quote] I kinda see a point there. RL you lower your gun a bit so you can see the enemys face and if they are holding anything if your guns in your face all the time you may miss something. Since someone may do that ingame they just lowerd the sight so you could still see above and below with a clear veiw at eye level. Really though it would be nice if we could choose that for ourselfs instead of bungie making doing there normal stupid stuff aka maps are to big to be exciting like midship lockout and warlock sorta. Midship was almost perfection. Side of map ment nothing and gameplay was chaos and perfect order at the same time. Sanctuary the cover was different for the rocks and so was snipe jump up. WE DO NOT NEED ART IN MP WE NEED PERFECT SYMETRY if thats the map they are making. Midship symetry is good as long as you playtest for balance. Warlocks perfect symetry makes for a less interesting game the attacks are always the same and the camping is just lame.

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  • I imagine that it is probably to add a bit of realism into actual gun positioning, the way the gun is held makes it more realistic for the reticule to be slightly lower than the center. And really I don't think it gives an advantage to people on higher ground, but then again it might be just for that reason. After all, in real life, having the higher ground in a firefight [i]does[/i] grant at least a little advantage.

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  • Maybe they did it, twice for a reason? Yeah they went traditional for the first. But they changed it. So yes against the grain they went. Your counter-point doesn't even make sense. I'm just gonna stop wasting my time. [Edited on 09.02.2007 3:59 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Platinum Racer How dare Bungie go against the grain.. Do something they think is most beneficial.[/quote] Well I've yet to hear there reasoning, maybe then, I might agree with them. So far to me this doesn't quite make much sense, it must be technical over design, thats my bet. And they had it in the center in Halo 1, so Bungie would be going against themselves as well as "the grain", so they're benefits must be even bigger then.

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  • How dare Bungie go against the grain.. Do something they think is most beneficial.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Platinum Racer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zagashi [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Platinum Racer It's funny how I was being serious and you took it as a joke. Denial maybe. I gave no intentional insults maybe you should grow up and stop being so paranoid. So many people are attacking you for a reason.[/quote] You know falsely accusing someone of having a medical disorder, is worse than random insults, last time I checked, its a hate crime. And in your last post, you described, my opinions and responses as squabbling. [/quote] I'm so very sorry I'll stop using adjectives to please you. It's gold and the cross-hair is low. And a suggestion that could be quite valid? Not really a hate crime. I bet you don't cry about when people call eachoether retarded which is a very common "hate crime". Just accept it's better where it is. When it's in the center it feels akward and there's no real tactical advantage to being centered. I would agree though it's not purely cosmetic and that it would affect gameplay. But it would affect it negatively.[/quote] Then if having a centered crosshair is negative, and gamers hate it, why are 99.9 % of First Person Shooters using centered crosshairs. Why does nobody go on a CS, or a RB6, or a Gears, or a Battlefield forum and complain that the crosshair should be lower. They would be rediculed. Only here, in Bungie's realm, is having a centered crosshair, something negative. And yes I am aware the game is gold and done, and any discision made about the game ended back 3 months ago(content complete day) the original point of the thread was to find out why.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FC Inter Zagashi you have very valid arguments, which i can't counter, and i accept what your saying. But to be truthful it just isn't going to change,mainly because H3 has now gone gold, but also it does limit your view if it is in the center of your screen. It's the one quabble i had about H1, it limited my view, so i was glad to have a different reticule in H2, and in the Beta too, because now it doesn't limit your vision anymore. Of course this is all my own opinion, i hope you can respect that.[/quote] I know it's not going to change, I started this thread to find out why it was like that in the first place, and have been trying to come up with logical reasons for it. And for that, a lot of people just come in and post insults, strange. Thats one general concensus that people have, that they like it below the center because that is where they look. But to me, I look with my crosshair, so I can instantly shoot something when I spot it, and not have to yank my crosshair up from below, to get the hit. To me, doing this in Halo 2 and 3, dramatically lowers my lower field of view, and thus I have to still look in the cneter of the screen, and adjust the crosshair upwards for every kill, quite aggravating.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zagashi [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Platinum Racer It's funny how I was being serious and you took it as a joke. Denial maybe. I gave no intentional insults maybe you should grow up and stop being so paranoid. So many people are attacking you for a reason.[/quote] You know falsely accusing someone of having a medical disorder, is worse than random insults, last time I checked, its a hate crime. And in your last post, you described, my opinions and responses as squabbling. [/quote] I'm so very sorry I'll stop using adjectives to please you. It's gold and the cross-hair is low. And a suggestion that could be quite valid? Not really a hate crime. I bet you don't cry about when people call eachoether retarded which is a very common "hate crime". Just accept it's better where it is. When it's in the center it feels akward and there's no real tactical advantage to being centered. I would agree though it's not purely cosmetic and that it would affect gameplay. But it would affect it negatively.

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  • The cross hair is cosmetic, its technically not even needed, ever get sniped when a game ends much? All teh cross hair provides is a little bit more accuracy.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Platinum Racer It's funny how I was being serious and you took it as a joke. Denial maybe. I gave no intentional insults maybe you should grow up and stop being so paranoid. So many people are attacking you for a reason.[/quote] You know falsely accusing someone of having a medical disorder, is worse than random insults, last time I checked, its a hate crime. And in your last post, you described, my opinions and responses as squabbling.

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  • Zagashi you have very valid arguments, which i can't counter, and i accept what your saying. But to be truthful it just isn't going to change,mainly because H3 has now gone gold, but also it does limit your view if it is in the center of your screen. It's the one quabble i had about H1, it limited my view, so i was glad to have a different reticule in H2, and in the Beta too, because now it doesn't limit your vision anymore. Of course this is all my own opinion, i hope you can respect that.

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  • Who do you think you are kidding? Go look at page 50, there were a number of posts on the first, then the thread went back to the old thread pages, then, 3 hours later you posted again, bringing the thread back up to the front. Time stamps are your friend.

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