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3/20/2007 10:49:43 PM
351
Halo 3 pistol scope-READ THE NEW ADDITION!!!
For those of you who have not seen the leaked footage, a modified version of the original pistol is being brought back to the series. In the footage, a scope for the pistol was not shown. I understand that nothing has been finialized or announced to be official, which is why I think its a great time for a "scope on the pistol debate". In my opinoin, there were 4 major factors that made the orignal pistol so great:
1. Range
2. Accuracy
3. Damage
4. The Scope
As you can see, not including the scope on the Halo 3 pistol would only result in 75% of the greatness the orignal brought to players. Also, the scope gave you a better chance of hitting your target, espically on the larger maps like Blood Gultch, and Sidewinder. In a way, the scope made the pistol a more effective weapon. This made the game more balanced. Furthermore, the scope made the game more fun. The second greatest feeling in the game was when you killed an enemy from across the map with the pistol. I really dont see a reason why the pistol should not be included. Keep in mind hitboxes and auto-aim are being reduced to the Halo 1 level once again. So getting a kill all by headshots wont be very easy. Putting a scope on the pistol again wont tamper with its balancement.
Please post your thoughts.
*ADDITION*
This topic has been going on for a pretty long time, and about half of it is flaming. So, I think Ive found a solution everyone can agree to. Make the pistol's scope be an additional option. Although it would be an unusual option, it will make the game more customisable (no idea how to spell that word) and fun to mess around with. Since finding people to play custom games with will be much eaiser than halo 2 (discussed in EGM's artice a while back) there should be no problems for those who want to play games with the pistol scope on. Players who hate the pistol scope can play matchmaking (if this is an additional option, I doubt it will be in matchmaking that often) or custom games since finding players for them will be easy. Dont get me wrong, I still stand by everything I said in the original post, (above the addition) but it seems to me that this will be the only way M6D fans and magnum fans will get what they want. Please post your feedback to this.
[Edited on 03.25.2007 1:15 PM PDT]
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"Get used to it, you guys just can't deal with change - the pistol can't come back, everything should be like it was in halo 2" That is the self-conflicting view I see a lot in argument against something similar to the pistol coming back.
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Spartan 472, I first comend you for admitting that you could not hit anything with the scoped deagle. This shows that you have a high maturity level. (So there is someone besides me with one) The point i am making this time around is that (I could be wrong) on the Glock 17 the scope mounted on it is a red dot scope which has no zoom and is used as an alternative to iron sights (I personally like iron sights better on pistols). Secondly, I was aware that there were scoped pistols, but i have yet to see someone use them. Third, all 3 of those pistols would be useless in a combat situation because drawing them would be extremely hard due to the fact that the scope would most likely get caught upon the holster as you drew it. [Edited on 04.12.2007 3:23 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H3OXTC Heres something I don't get. People always say the Pistol was even etc... Bungie has stated that the Assault rifle is now the starting weapon and that it will be balanced and give you a fighting chance. Why do you still want the halo 1 pistol back. So yo spawn with two good weapons and that you never pick up the battle rifle, carbine, etc.. Putting back the pistol like that would render the other guns useless. Pistol should be a weapon that you would duel wield. If the pistol should be the weakest human weapon in the game. Remember a pistol is usually a side arm. [/quote] I'm sorry if you may have thought that I wanted the M6D Pistol back, because as I stated before: [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan 472 This topic has been debated on for so long, I really don't care one way or the other anymore.[/quote] I was simply stating some facts having to do with scoped pistols, that's all.
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Heres something I don't get. People always say the Pistol was even etc... Bungie has stated that the Assault rifle is now the starting weapon and that it will be balanced and give you a fighting chance. Why do you still want the halo 1 pistol back. So yo spawn with two good weapons and that you never pick up the battle rifle, carbine, etc.. Putting back the pistol like that would render the other guns useless. Pistol should be a weapon that you would duel wield. If the pistol should be the weakest human weapon in the game. Remember a pistol is usually a side arm.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The 13th Arbiter Spartan 472. I would love to see you actually hit something with that scoped Desert Eagle. I have physically fired one and the recoil (the Deagle uses a gas blowback system like those upon assault rifles) forces the gun up at least 50 degrees. Scopes on pistols are about as useless as a sniper rifle at close quarters.[/quote] That really is besides the point I was trying to make 13th Arbiter. I was simply showing you and everyone else here that scoped pistols do exist today. Although maybe not very useful, they are functionally real. We do agree on one thing though, in reality I most likely could not hit my target with a scoped Desert Eagle because of the recoil. I would be better off without the scope. Now if Bungie wants a scoped pistol in Halo 3, then by all means they will put one in it. However useless any scoped pistol may seem in reality to a normal person, most likely will not reflect how it works in the hands of a Spartan on Halo 3. Besides, is a sniper rifle really that useless in close quarters on Halo 2? I don't think so.
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heres what you do: buy a chair with wheels on the bottom. then, when you have the pistol and want to zoom in on the action, roll the chair closer to the tv. if you are aiming at somebody really far away, you could even lean forward and squint. Then its a simple matter of getting your bodyshots and the headshot, then zoom out by simply rolling backwards into your glass sliding door. ta da! now everybody is happy! you get your zoom, and we get to stop hearing all the -blam!-ing about how the pistol sux, and needs to be restored as the most unbalanced weapon in the history of console shooters
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The 13th orbiter has got a very good point and a very good sense of humer and yes I have also fired a Desert Eagle.
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Yes in that sense I agree with wolf worrior the pistol should be a secondary weapon carried at all times making the ability to carry 3 weapons instead of 2. Say for instance you run out of assault rifle rounds and your main secondary weapon is also out of bullets or the battery is dead you cleverly pull out an average powered pistol from an ankle holster or leg holster. nw that would be cool. [Edited on 04.11.2007 5:44 PM PDT]
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Spartan 472. I would love to see you actually hit something with that scoped Desert Eagle. I have physically fired one and the recoil (the Deagle uses a gas blowback system like those upon assault rifles) forces the gun up at least 50 degrees. Scopes on pistols are about as useless as a sniper rifle at close quarters. [Edited on 04.11.2007 5:31 PM PDT]
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i agree with the guy above, the only criticism of the halo: ce pistol would be shorten the range of the gun and the scope. frankly for anyone who thinks the pistol sucks you are not idiots you just haven't used a carbine or an smg (i hate this gun if you're unlucky enough to have to dual wield 2 of these it takes a year to reload which is why a magnum and a plasma rifle work better) enough to realise that there are worse weapons out there! Who said the AR sucked it wasn't that bad as long as you fired in bursts of 10 and who cares would you rather it had been an smg instead....didn't think so
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This topic has been debated on for so long, I really don't care one way or the other anymore. For all you people who use realism as your backdrop, here is a [url=http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/GAfifty_101105E.jpg]Scoped S&W Model 629 Classic[/url], a [url=http://www.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/zmd-desert-eagle2.jpg]Scoped Desert Eagle[/url], and even a [url=http://www.sportshooter.com/images/cc_basicblack_thumb.jpg]Scoped Glock[/url] that you might want to consider next time you pull the realism card. They all look pretty real to me, but hey I'll go find more scoped pistols if I must to satisfy your needs. The rest of you that are arguing about the PistolVSBattle Rifle, go do it in another topic. That is not what this one is for. Now if Bungie wants there to be a balanced version of the Scoped M6D Pistol in the game possibly alongside a Dual-Wieldable M6C Magnum, there will be. If Bungie wants the M6D to not have a scope, it won't. Hell, if Bungie wants the M6D to fire flaming Grunts then they have the power to do that too. My point is, Bungie will do a great job with whatever the outcome of the M6D happens to be. It may not satisfy everyone, but that's life. It's not the end of the world. Have a little faith people and quit your -blam!-ing. (My apoligies to the Blam! Filter)
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yea but I bet you've never seen a fuel rod canon either (rolls eyes) [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wing_Zero_X my thoughts are, ur insane, I know games arent meant to be real but come on, you would never see a pistol with a scope that can have the kind of range that gun did in halo, the damage it does I might be able to see, but being able to shoot from that far is rediculous for a pistol, thats what a rifle is for i.e. the BR[/quote] [Edited on 03.26.2007 2:18 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sporefrizzle [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RatMan91 Wrong, I don't want the pistol back, and I'm a damn good player.[/quote] Then you're not an experienced player. Anyone who has played competitive Halo 1 and Halo 2 wants the pistol (or a weapon that functions like it) back.[/quote] Wrong again, that is quite an ignorant statement for you to say.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Poe Ghostal [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xpsyanydex the halo 3 pistol looks like it has the scope of the Halo 1 pistol from the footage I've seen. The H3 pistol will most likely be single wielded 4sk with 2x scope and less magnetism than the BR.[/quote]I think this is correct, with one addition: the M6D will be a power weapon [/quote] That would suck [Edited on 03.25.2007 1:22 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] maragazephon After following this thread, I think that the key to this issue is one of [b] logic and design[/b]. What I mean by this is why did Bungie choose to remove a scoped pistol, the M6D? It is pretty clear that it is not the same as the Battle Rifle, for reasons that have already been gone over, but nevertheless, they removed it for the fact that it acted like a rifle more than a pistol, as stated by Robert McLees, their resident firearms guru. Regardless of the lack of realism in the Halo trilogy, there is nevertheless an amount of [b]logic[/b] employed with how the respective weapons work. A scoped pistol, even with 8 rounds and single-wield, is going to act more like a rifle, and less like a pistol. For Halo 2, they wanted to add a pistol that at least acted like a pistol, however flawed it was. The scoped pistol destroys that logic of design, i.e. added elements of realism into this unrealistic universe actually helps it feel more authentic, and it is part of game's weapon balance. They wanted a pistol to act like a pistol, a submachine gun to act like one, a rifle to act like a rifle, etc., and judging from what I have seen, they will continue to do so In my opinion, they should not have a scoped pistol in Halo 3, for the above reasons, and it seems that at least to some extent Bungie would agree. So no to a scope.[/quote] What if the scope was an additional option? What would your feelings be towards that?
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Well, this arguement has been dragging on for a long time, and about half of it is flaming. Unfourtunatley, we have reached no solution to the question of the scope being on the pistol, so I think I have an idea that could make it acceptable by fans of the pistol and others against it. Make the scope an additional option. If you want to simulate halo 1 games with the pistol, make it a custom. Since custom games wont be hard to get alot of people for in halo 3 (the whole advertisement discussed a while back) then people who want the option will be satisfied. As for those against it, it will be an option, and doesnt have to be enabled. Because of this, we probably wont see the pistol scope in matchmaking that often, but can play with it on in a custom game whenever we want. Feedback please.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Poe Ghostal [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xpsyanydex the halo 3 pistol looks like it has the scope of the Halo 1 pistol from the footage I've seen. The H3 pistol will most likely be single wielded 4sk with 2x scope and less magnetism than the BR.[/quote]I think this is correct, with one addition: the M6D will be a power weapon, and as such, relatively rare. You won't start with it by default. The pistoleros will spend all their time fighting over the spawns and get killed by those willing to settle for a BR. Eventually the pistol's reputation will dim somewhat. That's my prediction, anyway. It also might be a multiplayer custom-only option--not available in public matchmaking or the campaign.[/quote] Honestly, I wouldnt mind that. If the pistol's scope was only an additional option for custom games, maybe in few matchmaking games, that would be perfectly fine with me.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] halo2 playground Nah i think the scope is unessesary for the pistol. The pistol should be a secondary weapon, as in not better then a rifle. In Halo:CE 2 guys with Assault Rifles could get owned by one guy with a pistol, that doesnt make much sense[/quote] Wtf? The pistol was the ONLY realistic gun in the game. The AR was crap, the Shotgun, in real life, would have SO much more range, and the plasma weapons... Don't even get me started.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xpsyanydex the halo 3 pistol looks like it has the scope of the Halo 1 pistol from the footage I've seen. The H3 pistol will most likely be single wielded 4sk with 2x scope and less magnetism than the BR.[/quote]I think this is correct, with one addition: the M6D will be a power weapon, and as such, relatively rare. You won't start with it by default. The pistoleros will spend all their time fighting over the spawns and get killed by those willing to settle for a BR. Eventually the pistol's reputation will dim somewhat. That's my prediction, anyway. It also might be a multiplayer custom-only option--not available in public matchmaking or the campaign. [Edited on 03.24.2007 5:20 PM PDT]
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i say better than the one in halo 2 worse than the one in halo 1. im thinkin just town-down everything i had in halo 1 and take out scope.
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they just need to tune down the shots because you could kill someone in 3 hits to the head....a lot of people stayed with halo because of the h2 pistol so its a good idea, they will get alot of fans back
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After following this thread, I think that the key to this issue is one of [b] logic and design[/b]. What I mean by this is why did Bungie choose to remove a scoped pistol, the M6D? It is pretty clear that it is not the same as the Battle Rifle, for reasons that have already been gone over, but nevertheless, they removed it for the fact that it acted like a rifle more than a pistol, as stated by Robert McLees, their resident firearms guru. Regardless of the lack of realism in the Halo trilogy, there is nevertheless an amount of [b]logic[/b] employed with how the respective weapons work. A scoped pistol, even with 8 rounds and single-wield, is going to act more like a rifle, and less like a pistol. For Halo 2, they wanted to add a pistol that at least acted like a pistol, however flawed it was. The scoped pistol destroys that logic of design, i.e. added elements of realism into this unrealistic universe actually helps it feel more authentic, and it is part of game's weapon balance. They wanted a pistol to act like a pistol, a submachine gun to act like one, a rifle to act like a rifle, etc., and judging from what I have seen, they will continue to do so In my opinion, they should not have a scoped pistol in Halo 3, for the above reasons, and it seems that at least to some extent Bungie would agree. So no to a scope.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Noctilius [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn Well pwnzorz, i got news for ya buddy...the BR takes more skill to use than the pistol ever did, thanks to erratic three rounds bursts[/quote] LOL, so the br, in which only decent players can pull off 4sk's 90% of the time, and it only takes 1/3 bullets to hit to count for a full 3 round burst, with ALOT of aim-assist, slower run speed, and bigger player models basically making it impossible to dodge unless your around a corner, takes more skill then a Pistol, which takes a PROFESSIONAL( ya know the people who play for money) 4 or 5 shots to kill consistently.....yeah....that takes a TON more skill. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn and something Halo 1 players never EVER had to deal with....LAG. On XBL[/quote] This proves you dont know what your talking about, every try to play on XBC? no? didnt think so....it was much worse then halo 2 on live. The controls we're sluggish when playing off host, and you had increased lead, it was hard to play off-host on xbc unless you had alot of pratice. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn And truthfully, id rather play with ppl who have skill, not luck[/quote] Then i suggest not playing halo 2. [/quote] eh, im not fancy with seperate quotes, im not skilled in the art of forums....oh well..... anyway, the comment about hitting 1/3rd of BR shots and counting as hitting three times...dude, you're on crack. seriously, go test that theory out, because you're wrong, flat out. You actually DO have to hit with all 3 shots for it to count. And yes, i have played on XBC. What i was getting at was not in any way based on that, it was based on the only REAL way to play Halo 1, which was over LAN. XBC is a whole different ballgame, and i wasnt talking about that at all. Regarding your final comment....LOL! Stupidest thing ive ever heard. Do you mean to tell me that nobody who plays H2 has skill? Which means that when your bragging about that last triple kill you had on XBL it was pure luck and no skill, which means you suck at the game? think before you speak.[/quote] I meant more t'word that halo 2 revolves around about 60% luck, 40% skill. and yeah i can say that this triple kill can be luck too, simply as enemy placement, example, if your from a medium range, and you have a br/sniper and they have any other weapon, you get the kills easy.
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Ok this is getting of topic so all you need to be discussing is about the pistol scope. This is what I really think about the pistol and its scope. I used the pistol in halo 1 every once in a while but i found myself using the shotgun or AR more because I was good with them. Now the pistol does require skill to use and when your good with it you become really powerful and get lots of kills. That is only on the big maps though like blood gulch or ice fields but on maps like prisoner or wizard or even longest the pistol became almost useless and its scope because it was at such close range. Now if bungie puts in more close range maps then the pistol should not have a scope because you would probably never use it. With long range maps it still doesn't NEED a scope because thats what the BR is for. In halo 3 i doubt the BR will take as much skill to use as it did in halo 2 so it will be harder to use therefore being the replacement for the pistol. So either big or small maps the pistol does not need a scope and should not have one because that is just unreasonable. [Edited on 03.24.2007 1:53 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Noctilius [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn Well pwnzorz, i got news for ya buddy...the BR takes more skill to use than the pistol ever did, thanks to erratic three rounds bursts[/quote] LOL, so the br, in which only decent players can pull off 4sk's 90% of the time, and it only takes 1/3 bullets to hit to count for a full 3 round burst, with ALOT of aim-assist, slower run speed, and bigger player models basically making it impossible to dodge unless your around a corner, takes more skill then a Pistol, which takes a PROFESSIONAL( ya know the people who play for money) 4 or 5 shots to kill consistently.....yeah....that takes a TON more skill. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn and something Halo 1 players never EVER had to deal with....LAG. On XBL[/quote] This proves you dont know what your talking about, every try to play on XBC? no? didnt think so....it was much worse then halo 2 on live. The controls we're sluggish when playing off host, and you had increased lead, it was hard to play off-host on xbc unless you had alot of pratice. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn And truthfully, id rather play with ppl who have skill, not luck[/quote] Then i suggest not playing halo 2. [/quote] eh, im not fancy with seperate quotes, im not skilled in the art of forums....oh well..... anyway, the comment about hitting 1/3rd of BR shots and counting as hitting three times...dude, you're on crack. seriously, go test that theory out, because you're wrong, flat out. You actually DO have to hit with all 3 shots for it to count. And yes, i have played on XBC. What i was getting at was not in any way based on that, it was based on the only REAL way to play Halo 1, which was over LAN. XBC is a whole different ballgame, and i wasnt talking about that at all. Regarding your final comment....LOL! Stupidest thing ive ever heard. Do you mean to tell me that nobody who plays H2 has skill? Which means that when your bragging about that last triple kill you had on XBL it was pure luck and no skill, which means you suck at the game? think before you speak.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] J3ff 7h3 BK [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Valkyrie Dawn You can bring up XBC till the cows come home, but being as how H1 isn’t designed to deal with lag, it simply doesn’t. If XBC lags, the game STOPS until the lag is fixed, and there is a constant stutter in gameplay, which makes the pistol unusable anyway. It really takes no skill to use the pistol. It takes some slight skill to three shot everybody you come across, but there are few people I know who can do that consistently. So the bottom line is, the pistol sucks [/quote] For the part about lag...Your an idiot. How is the Pistol "unuseable" if there is lag on XBC...I've 3 Shotted kids off-host on XBC and here you are saying how it is unusable. You can bring up how that was luck till the cows come home... Now for the part about how the pistol sucks...You need to go kill yourself, because you obviosly suck at Halo 1. The reason why you think the Pistol sucks is because YOU PROBLY SUCK WITH IT so you go around saying that and calling people bad when your the one who actually sucks. You will find out that you wont be as good at Halo 3 then you were at Halo 2, becuase you wont be able to kill someone because you wont have any auto-aim. kthnx[/quote] Congratulations, you have just proven that you have never used XBC. So quit speaking. Also, following your logic following your comment about my lack of skill with a pistol obviously leads to you sucking with half the weapons in H2 you moron. You're one of those who cries about the BR, saying it sucks, blah blah blah, when, following your logic, you must suck balls with it. I was damn good with the pistol, and i used it to my advantage. That doesnt mean i automatically think its a great weapon, idiot. You hate the sword, i know you do. But if you happen upon it while in a game, will you leave it on the ground or use it to your full advantage? You'll use it, i guarantee it. Then the next time YOU get killed by the sword, it's a BS weapon again, and you flame it for an hour before you forget about it. Thats because your a puss who thinks he's better at games than he really is. It's ok, there are lots of ppl like you out there. Go start a support group. Away from intelligent ppl. [Edited on 03.24.2007 12:27 PM PDT]
