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3/14/2007 5:58:40 AM
232
The 7th Column, The Community, It's Guy, and The Lack There Of
[b]The 7th Column, The Community, It's Guy, and The Lack There Of[/b]
[i]Let me begin by saying what follows is not my rant, but as I agree with most of it I believe it should be posted. If I am wrong for this then I will recieve my just 'reward' but it must be said. I will not reveal the identity of said ranter for his own privacy reasons. Enjoy!
*note: This was written before the announcement of the new Bungie.net*[/i]
Part 1:
You asked for this. Here goes. :3
Let me commence by stating that the problem with the Bungie.net community is deep rooted. I don’t like to blame the web team with any scathing conviction because they have provided the site that, at least formerly, hosted a really good community. However, SketchFactor apparently gave up even before the “upgraded” column was implemented – he was after all the Community Guy whose responsibilities, theoretically, included the interaction with the good persons of the Seventh Column. I was never around too long before the change so I have no grounds on which to argue that he was ever actively involved, but the fact of that matter is that when I and some of my friends submitted our chapters for approval (as was the former custom), he accepted them. The spotlight, too, had been fairly frequently updated.
I understand that there are slightly higher concerns than a thriving community of well-mannered, Bungie-loving individuals – the professional needs for a sleek site with job offers and interaction with Halo 2, for example. It’d be ignorant in the extreme to pretend said necessities do not exist. But how many times have we been told that Bungie.net is not a business site – it’s a community site? The answer, should you wonder, is very often indeed.
I’ll be up front and admit that some of the things done with the site are amazing, not least the full integration of the various modules as one easy-to-navigate conglomeration. I’ve always liked the forums as they, in my opinion at least, look the part, and are so very easy to use. There’s no unnecessary formatting; you just hit reply or new topic, type what you want, and hit submit. Nothing could be simpler. Since I’d never used a forum before that time, it was the perfect way to get started.
Also engaging was the Seventh Column. An invite from a prominent founder via Private Message introduced me to it, and it was excellent: lots of databases and plenty of room for personalisation and creativity, plus scope for organising chapter-wide events. This little communities thrived as one and interacted with one another publicly, also, where great friendships were made and inter-chapter events established. In fact, that was the purpose of the 7th Column Community Page, which died at about the same time as the Spotlight and news.
Priorities seem to be wrong, also. I refuse to believe that a search feature – and repeat threads will surface, especially in the absence of constant new discussion material and in the presence of the ridiculous “don’t dig up old threads” regulation – is more crucial to a community site than the community itself. Surely resources would have been better spent on the 7th Column in one way or another.
And so many empty promises. Nobody expects miracles, but when fanfests, an updated column, more interaction from Bungie and a community that has official support are pledged, it’s saddening when they are not fulfilled, and more so when they simply fade away without even a “no, that’s not going to happen”. I wouldn’t will them all to attend massive fan gatherings, because, let’s face it, no other game developers do, but the fact that it’s happened before and future events were promised makes it that little bit worse. I’d much rather see a fantastic Halo 3 than direct community interaction, as I’m sure we all would, but surely the purpose of a site for the community and Bungie’s having of a community team is to interact with their fans? But Bungie is just the core, the very heart of a system composed of many more organs, blood, bones and flesh.
[Edited on 3/13/2007]
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Well, I never claimed that people got anywhere by doing it, but you can't argue that people do quote authority in attempt to increase their chances. That's the part that I thought was very true.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Code Zero [quote]Everyone is so scared of authority and damaging their chances of becoming ninjas these days that they are afraid to speak their mind. Take it from somebody who has devoted countless hours to trying to improve things both publicly and privately, and who has seen many great members fade away to be forgotten.[/quote] I think this is the most important quote in the whole post because it is very true. People quote moderators or bungie staff all the time to laugh at their jokes or to compliment them in some way, just to be a kiss ass and increase their chances of being a mod. When I quote a mod, I usually ask myself this question: "would I be quoting this person if they weren't a mod". And if the answer is yes, I would reply. If no, I'd simply just forget about replying. Works pretty well, I'd say.[/quote] It's true that people do quote admins and moderators for no reason, but it doesn't mean they get "anywhere" by doing it. (I say "anywhere" tentatively by the way; as being a moderator isn't actually a "place" in reality). You don't have to be a Bungie fanboy drone for you to be a respected member (or at least I hope...) Debate and difference of opinion is what drives the forum, not "LoLz Shishka! PWN'T!". I think whoever wrote this doesn't have much faith in the moderators to differenciate an obvious (or subtle) "brown-noser" from someone who can actually be [i]trusted.[/i] [Edited on 3/14/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] snowmanaxt7 The 7th Column: Bring it back, plain and simple. The 7th Column page is completely dead, this does not help to inspire a community feel at all. Try to get it active again. Some suggestions: Get the Spotlight up and running on some kind of regular basis, start doing the soapbox again, offer more Chapter support directly through the column. If you have to, try to get a certain someone who's entire job on B.net is to run that 7th Column page. [/quote] Achronos has hinted, but not said anything concrete about these features. It's been suggested to him before, and I hope he does something just like this. [quote]Maybe reactivate Team ACS(Active Chapter Support) and this time with the 7th Column as a backing. I was a part of the original Team ACS, and we did well, but with our lack of resources were overcome. We had to many request for help, we could not handle it. An official 7th Column Team ACS would be a welcome addition to the Community and groups.[/quote] That's a pretty good idea as well. [quote]I know not if this is possible, but try to get some real Bungie Employees, aside from Bungie.net workers(Frankie, yourself, Sketch, etc...) to become at least moderately active on the website. Of course this isn't an easy task I know, most will probably not want to do this. But, think about it for a moment. Having a Bungie employee around doing the sopbox, or for instance I have a technical question about Halo 3, or something to do with the engine, and I post it in the forums, there would be an actual employee there to answer me, participating. This would cause an immense community feel, as Bungie employees themselves would be a part of it.[/quote] AGREE. Nuff Said. [quote]Groups: How To Not Suck Refine groups more, it may be harsh but maybe we should go back to having to have your group creation accepted. This would cut down on all of these copy groups and encourage more activity in the original ones. No need to have another damn halo 3 Beta group, just join the one that already exists and enjoy.[/quote] I'm unsure if that could work anymore with the number of users on the site. [quote]Make the homepages more customizable. As in, maybe design it so that you can choose different layout templates for your group Homepage. Nothing major of course, but kinda like the themes are now, just moving things around. Make more options also. Not all groups are about Clans, so why should all Display a Clan box? it should be a selectable option to show.[/quote] The old groups had boxes you could chose to display, and multiple hacks that people like Doctor Evol were adept at exploiting to customize the group farther. I want these back. [quote]Also, why not expand even farther on Clan groups. Not only may you show your Clan box but make it so that you can fully implement your entire clan status, members, info, and etc into your chapter. Kinda like merging the Clan Page and Group. This would encourage more clans to have groups as their homepages, and thus expand the 7th Column further.[/quote] It also would help scheduling I think, as well as making a more functional Column.
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Why do you guys even care about how they're chosen?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xTr1GGeR HaPPYx [quote][b]Posted By:[/b] Gendo Of course, but i could count the only decent (in my opinion) australian members on one hand.[/quote] If I'm not mistaken, you can count [b]all[/b] the Australian moderators on one hand =\[/quote] I have known Trigger almost as long as I have been on B.net. He has helped the community and he deserves to be a mod. The mods are chosen for good reasons.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] natedogr [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GameJunkieJim [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Code Zero Just read it and I can say now that it is a very good read. I wasn't informed that some moderators -- selected before my time, were only selected because they were friends with Bungie or their mods. [/quote] Take what you read with a huge spoon of salt. While the mods are often chosen from members the rest of us know, they are always processed and evaluated by all of the other moderators to the best of their ability, and we try to be as fair as possible. [/quote] Overall, the mods have a good track record. GJJ, TGP, and numerous other mods treat people fairly and do their NON-PAID job well. Is there room for improvement? Of course.[/quote] Yeah, I agree. The mods we have now are good.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GameJunkieJim [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Code Zero Just read it and I can say now that it is a very good read. I wasn't informed that some moderators -- selected before my time, were only selected because they were friends with Bungie or their mods. [/quote] Take what you read with a huge spoon of salt. While the mods are often chosen from members the rest of us know, they are always processed and evaluated by all of the other moderators to the best of their ability, and we try to be as fair as possible. [/quote] Overall, the mods have a good track record. GJJ, TGP, and numerous other mods treat people fairly and do their NON-PAID job well. Is there room for improvement? Of course.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Code Zero Just read it and I can say now that it is a very good read. I wasn't informed that some moderators -- selected before my time, were only selected because they were friends with Bungie or their mods. [/quote] Take what you read with a huge spoon of salt. While the mods are often chosen from members the rest of us know, they are always processed and evaluated by all of the other moderators to the best of their ability, and we try to be as fair as possible.
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Just read it and I can say now that it is a very good read. I wasn't informed that some moderators -- selected before my time, were only selected because they were friends with Bungie or their mods. Very informative read. I agree for the most part, with this quote: [quote]Everyone is so scared of authority and damaging their chances of becoming ninjas these days that they are afraid to speak their mind. Take it from somebody who has devoted countless hours to trying to improve things both publicly and privately, and who has seen many great members fade away to be forgotten.[/quote] I think this is the most important quote in the whole post because it is very true. People quote moderators or bungie staff all the time to laugh at their jokes or to compliment them in some way, just to be a kiss ass and increase their chances of being a mod. When I quote a mod, I usually ask myself this question: "would I be quoting this person if they weren't a mod". And if the answer is yes, I would reply. If no, I'd simply just forget about replying. Works pretty well, I'd say.
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Instead of reading my post, go back and re-read Jim's. He said what i wanted to, but better.
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Dangit Foman. Now what's the point of [i]me[/i] posting? You stole my entire opinion, and then summed it up better than I ever could. :D
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I read all of foman's post and man does he really lay in to you with the big words and the harsh tone. I guess i agree with him. Stop trying to take the fun away! p.s. surely if the bungie mods wanted power they would actually have some sort of power? All they can do is ban me, i can create another account and be a cretin on that account. If they wanted real power they'd launch a coup de ta on frankie and usurp his position. Either that or get a real job and get enough money to have people killed?
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Being a reader, I am always inclined to read carefully written and long posts with much more interest and care than a short post. This post was no exception, and I read the whole thing carefully. Please keep that in mind as you read this reply further. I am going to disagree with those people who say it is well-written. But to be fair, I write persuasive and argumentative pieces for a living; my standards may be a bit high. I want to respond at length to this rant, and although I know that anything more than three paragraphs long on these forums is unlikely to be read thoroughly, I believe that most of the Septagon knows my posts well enough for this to catch your attention. Throughout this post, I will refer to "you." When I say that, I am referring to the original poster - not snowman, but whomever he posted for. [b][u]This Is Not the Bungie Soap Opera[/b][/u] I am too old for the social games we all used to play in high school. I remember them well, and your rant smacks of trying to revive or transpose them onto a video game developer's website. [b]I resent you for attempting to do this.[/b] And I think that "resent" is possibly not strong enough a word. I resent you [i]and anybody and everybody else who feeds into this[/i] for attempting to turn a fun and lighthearted way to kill time during my workday into a horrifying, juvenile, intimidating melodrama. I am in my late twenties, a fully grown man with an undergraduate and a graduate professional degree. Despite the large amount of time I spend here, perhaps I see things through a different lens, as my job takes me all over the world and my co-workers and clients are people with real power - CEOs of some of the world's largest corporations, politicians with names that I guarantee you would recognize, and attorneys/judges who have helped to mold and change the laws that affect our daily lives. So excuse me if I fail to see how becoming or not becoming a moderator on Bungie isn't the most important goal in the world. I was popular in high school, as I was an all-star football player and a straight-A student, so please don't think that I am simply being a "sore loser" when I say that I was thrilled to leave the gossiping, sophomoric, worthless discussions that my "popular" friends got into far behind. Your attempt to revive this kind of false social hierarchy on this website is offensive beyond words to me. Perhaps I am being a bit harsh. I do not want to sound dismissive. The following statement will sound like a cliche, but I say it honestly and from the bottom of my heart: I believe that you have seen too many episodes of "The Real World" and its ilk. It must be realized that this is not a reality TV show or a soap opera, and we are not actors in a melodrama. When viewed through the lens of melodrama and politics, everything seems to have more weight and impact. When it comes down to it, this is a video game website. Even being a moderator is not "real" power - it is perceived power. Sure, they can ban you, or whatever, and they get special text, but when it comes down to it, a moderator is still a guy just sitting at his computer - just like you. You claim that you were "used" as someone else's springboard to power. In keeping with this "soap opera" theme, you seem to feel betrayed and dismayed by some other unnamed person's promotion to moderator over you. Well you know what? Boo hoo. I -- along with many other non-moderators who post regularly in the Septagon -- would love to become a moderator. I have a genuine interest in the Community and I am a huge Bungie fan. I do what I can to help the Community, trying to come up with new ideas, post intelligently at all hours of the day and night, discuss others' posts thoroughly using logic and reason rather than emotion and insults, pass along "bad posts" to the forum moderators, and even help Gods Prophet to run The Guide, so that new users just getting involved in the 7th Column have a place to go to find interesting information, reviews, and interviews. I have done what I can to distinguish myself in this Community, and I think that I would make a great moderator. I could lay out the reasons here, but I do not feel that this is the appropriate place to engage in shameless self-promotion. Instead, my point is to say that if I never "get the promotion," I will not feel slighted or betrayed in any way. I do not want to be a moderator for the power, but rather to help the Community. And that is what YOU and every other person in this Community (moderators and regular members alike) should similarly desire. As long as someone is helping to clean things up and keeping things active and intelligent, I will be happy to spend my free time here on bungie.net. Moderator or not. I do admit to wanting to become a moderator, but not for power reasons. Rather, to help this FUN and ENTERTAINING WEBSITE be more interesting. You haughtily refer to a 7th Column "aristocracy" and "upper class," using the words that you know have a negative connotation in order to imply your apparent disapproval of this stratification. You seem to forget that even you admitted that some people who post here are morons and some are clearly more intelligent than others. I see absolutely nothing wrong with attempting to distinguish oneself by posting intelligently, nor with preferring to associate and identify with peers who one sees as similarly intelligent or creative. To do so does not mean that you are elitist, but rather that you prefer to a have a place on bungie.net where you do not have to wade through forum games, spam, and classified ads just to find an intelligent and meaningful discussion. If you turn these forums into some kind of ridiculous false power game, you will inevitably start to see ghosts that are not there and feel betrayed if you are not the individual to "rise up the social ladder" (or however you put it). [b][u]The Latest Batch of Moderators[/b][/u] I must forcefully and emphatically disagree with any notion that the "latest batch" of moderators is some kind of failure. Such a statement or implication is an obscene miscarriage of the truth - even if it IS based entirely on some anonymous person's subjective ideas of what makes a good moderator. In my role for The Guide, I have had the opportunity to have extremely in-depth conversations with many of our forum moderators. I have asked them pointed and blunt questions and seen nothing but a genuine desire to help the Community. I know what power-hunger looks like, and I also know that a person who is truly power-hungry will not be drawn to a video game website. What you find in the more distinguished ranks of the Bungie Community are people who genuinely want to help and exchange thoughtful ideas, and make things easier for all to navigate. That is what it IS and SHOULD BE about. Nothing more. The moderators whom I have interviewed for the Guide have not only said that they have a genuine interest in helping the Community, but proved it by being ruthless but fair in locking bad threads, banning bad users, and contributing to the Community in wholly meaningful, intelligent, and helpful ways. I am not an ass-kisser, and make no mistake: I am not going to be kissing the ass of some person who is ten years younger than me merely because they type in white text. But I am going to be fair. And that means calling you and your false statements out for the self-serving, despicable lies that they are. [b][u]Conclusion[/u][/b] In conclusion, I believe that you feel pretty great about yourself after writing this. It seems to me that the [i]primary[/i] purpose of the post is not motivated by a desire to help the Community, but rather a desire to make yourself feel self-righteous about the fact that you are not a moderator. Ironically, you not only had no choice in not becoming a moderator, but you even [i]wanted[/i] it badly enough to feel betrayed when someone else became a moderator over you. I despise this thread because it adds nothing to the Community and nothing to the fun and entertainment value of bungie.net. Instead, this thread attempts to take something fun and entertaining that I love and turn it into the halls of my high school / a reality TV show. For this reason, I will not be responding any further in this thread. Instead, I'm going to head over to the Halo 3 forum and discuss X Button theories and graphics. This thread cannot and will not take the fun of the Bungie website away from me. [Edited on 3/14/2007]
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I read all that and was kind uf dumb to it all. I'm not well informed on what's going on around the community so I can't really respond much to it. I've never exactly had a problem with any modertor other than Antom P Nym(I Think that's it =P) but maybe it was over a stupid reason. I have since then dropped all aggrivation towards him and what not. I'm not sure how things go around New Mombasa anymore but when I pretty much dropped being an active member it was filthy with spam. To say the least, It felt as tho the Moderators were unmotivated to even try to reform that section of the forums, thus trolling became widespread... Thus I left. I'm not sure why, to my notice, hardly anything was being done but I'm not gonna point my finger and make up false reasons.
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I read parts 1, 2 and 3 and then I realized that with all those words in your rant, the word summarization seemed to have been lost. I'll make a better post after school.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Code Zero For some reason I could see Recon reading all that >_>.. [/quote] Of course I did. But I kept coming back to "Marathon fan = hooligans". *sniff* I am so hurt! *grin* Seriously though. It IS a long, but well written, passionate, and yet thoughtful rant. I'm going to have to re-read it a few more times to make sure that I am not misunderstanding the author, and to be careful not to focus on one portion over another. For example, it is human nature to listen to someone making a valid (but general) complaint, look at it, think that they are speaking of you personally and to feel that you specifically are under attack or (if you have a really strong ego) declare the complaint "doesn't apply to me, therefor it is unfounded". Both are traps that I want to avoid (and encourage others to try to avoid as well). I'll probably end up giving my thoughts later, once I have read it again and again, more carefully.
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I don't even know if I'm cool enough to post here. But I have to. I was having fun here at B.net until this. I guess I had no idea that it sucked so bad. I guess I have a lot to learn yet. Jeezz, I have grumpy days for sure, but isn't this place fun ? I like. No, I love most of the folks around here. I feel that at times I fall under the name of Troll, Spammer, Suck-up, Cop, Jerk... Hell you name it. I'm just here to have fun with everybody and I hope to find folks that do to. All this "Death of the Seventh Column Crap" Sounds like folks giving up, not getting what they want out of it, seeing others being promoted in spots that they should have. Breaking down people into groups of folks is life man. Not everybody gets along or can "get" or understand people. All members are different, but we're hanging at the same site for a reason. Every single person here is from the same family tree. BUNGIE. The spammers love Bungie, Trolls love Bungie, Old Schoolers love Bungie, New Bees like me, LOVE BUNGIE. Hell baby... It's All love round here. Maybe the old schoolers need to sit me down and tell me more of what's wrong here. Til then, I say... Shut Up And Do It ? Ideas are cool, but community passion or love for community can only be done one post at a time, one idea implemented at a time. This rant if anything seems to be a part of the attitude problem around here and not a solution at all. Hey that's just my thoughts, don't hate me for 'em. I still think you're cool regardless because you like a sweet game company. Smart move, good choice. They rule. BTW, damn I wish my rants looked that good. I need a better dictionary my goodness. Peace.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] snowmanaxt7 Consider The Frozen Minority, a group of people initially from the community hub known as the Bungie Jumpers. The more exclusive – aristocratic, if you will – of these separated from the main congregation to form their own little haven, complete with some public forum moderators. Have these people ever contributed anything to the wider community? Well, yes, one or two did. Of course, the real work behind their sole project (the Bathroom Reader) is done by those who lack such high statuses. But, for the most part, no, they haven’t. In fact, their actions have even been detrimental towards others. Not too long ago, their troupe embarked on a number of rampages throughout mainly the Halo 3 forum, where they took full advantage of the uninformed masses and/or commoners and had significant fun at their expense. Granted, they’re not the only ones to have done this, but their intentions were malicious and their moderator friends turned a blind eye. Again, they were having fun and a bit of fun isn’t a bad thing, but these people have no idea when to stop, and those of dignity who are aware of their actions – the respectable GameJunkieJim, say – are powerless to stop them without in some way endangering their relationship.[/quote] Edit: I will say "you", not at snowman, but the person he posted this for (who I think has no reason to hide, as it's just an opinion, albeit baseless in places). Right. If you want to see the "all-exclusive" frozen minority just [url=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7251/untitledtc8.jpg]click here[/url]. It's not some super-secret HFCS v2, it's just a group Jay made [i]aaaaaages[/i] ago because we have a clan in Halo 2. You know... for clan members. Hence why only clan members are in it. As you can see from the screenshot it's not active at all (bar trigger's new "WE'RE EXCLUSIVE!" thread mentioning this thread - which has no replies). I agree with your concerns but I do think you assume far too much to arrive at your conclusions. Anyway, at least this is a nice thread to point out the "elitism" issues. [Edited on 3/14/2007]
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I like the moderators we have (although I was glad when toast got fired), but sometimes it pisses me off when they just lock threads and ban people for no apparent reason. Its never happened to me, but I always think to myself "Man, if I were that person I'd be pretty mad right about now." In the end though, I'm sure there is a reason.. I hope :p [Edited on 3/14/2007]
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Right, I don't post much in the main forums anymore and am one of the founding members of TFM and honestly i'm tired of all of this, people think we are an ultra secret group of people who travel round in small blacked out cars occasionally getting out to twat people over the head with bats, this as much as you want to be true is not we are just a group of people who are tired of suck ups, are tired of people constantly complaining, yet half the time it seems we don't even have to do anything to raise an eyebrow or get someone to involentarily soil themselves. We are just a group of people working away from the main forum thats all if you can't understand that then please don't talk about something you don't understand.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Great_Pretender I confess that my being made a mod was really only because of Reigi (and to a certain extent, Yoozel). I can safely say that I was made a mod less because of my abilities as a member and a moderator, but because I was friends with an old-timer and I lived in a different timezone. That's certainly a boost on my self-esteem. I'd like to think I've become a person worthy of the position, since then. [/quote] Awwwww your the greatest moderator ever!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Great_Pretender I'd like to think I've become a person worthy of the position, since then. -TGP- [/quote] I agree. If anyone has shown the possibility of the community (at least in my limited vantage) it has been TGP. Am I saying that because I'm friends with TGP? No, because I don't consider myself as such a title; we are acquaintences, nothing more nothing less. But as TGP has demonstrated, those people that are selected to become mods might need some time to grow into their new role. I would imagine it would be hard being a "normie" for an extend amount of time and then thrust into the spotlight that comes with being a moderator. Along with that new title comes the groupies and hate-mail alike. Some might not know how to handle that influx, or some might not desire to handle it and would much rather sneak back to the obscurity of being a "normie". Have I ever had issue with any of the actions that I've seen moderators take part in? Not in my limited recollection. The only time I can possibly give an example with regards to some of the people listed in the rant from TFM that took it upon themselves to create a rather pointless thread about someone (I suspect is their friend) on the main forums. It was around 3am EST and not that many people saw the thread before it was handled accordingly by Pezza. It was spam none-the-less, but it was handled accordingly by locking threads. However, if it had been any other member, they might have received further punishment. I do not know the exact details, so I cannot comment further without it going into speculation. Ah, how are moderators chosen...that is probably one of the most "holy grail" of topics on these forums. I too, once ventured to ask that exact question, however it was several several years ago now. Most times the question is returned with some "cloak and dagger" autoresponse that gives little information in regards to the question, but is rather to serve as a humorous response. Here is how I look at moderators and their selection process. I am a political scientist so naturally I'll draw on something from that perspective to ellaborate my point. How I see the heirarchy of those in control of power (mods or online team) is much related to the Cabinet of the President. The Cabinet serves as those who are in charge of the various aspects of the bureaucracy (forums) while allowing the President to concentrate on the executive aspect of the job (Achronos for Prez '08!!) However, the appointment of the members of the Cabinet is through direct appointment by the President (Achronos). He appoints those who he feels will do the best job, but naturally he appoints those that he is more familiar with. When he cannot rely upon his own experience in selecting someone for the Cabinet, he ofter will seek out the advice of those already serving (Hey Master Mods, who do you want as your new whipping boy?) Those who are suggested are run through the paces, and those who pass muster, are selected. However, just like the Cabinet, mod selections often times come as being selected because of who you know. Does that make them any less qualified? Not hardly. Now, appointments are not for life terms and neither are the moderators. They can quit, they can resign, or they can be removed. In the process of removing such a person, it is never dealt with in a hasty fashion. If you expect it should be, you have far too high of expectations. But that's the rub. Trying to tell how a person will react to their appointment can take some time. Someone might make a great attorney, but make a lousy Attorney General. Someone might be a good Secretary of State, but were lackluster before that position. People act differently in different situations. Don't believe me, take any sociology course and I'm sure it is one of the first things they instruct you on. With this in mind, saying someone is either a good or bad moderator within the small amount of time that they have been one is rather presumptious in my opinion. Maybe they are working out their niche as being a moderator. I would argue that Recon wasn't the same type of moderator he is today when he first got into the mod biz. As TGP said, he has grown as a moderator since being made one. And that is where the beauty of working with the human element is. People are dynamic, and they are usually rather unpredictable. However, it is because of those unknown variables that trial and error must be used. Hindsight is 20/20, but if nothing is ventured nothing is gained. Maybe when the mod selections were made some "gambles" if you will were allowed because of the great possibility that they might turn into a great moderator. We'll never know unless they are given the oppertunity. And that is really what this is, an opportunity. All of this is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to come together as a group of people because we have at least the basic common interest in a game developing company. People have joined together in bonds over far more random things in the past. It's also an opportunity to get to know people that we would have never become acquianted if not for Bungie.net. So in that regards the 7th Column and the community will always be a success. If one person gets to know another person, through the opportunity of the Column, then it can be considered successful. Now the degree of success will always vary, but it is successful none-the-less. With any opportunity, there is always possibility for great things, but to expect them is expecting too much. I've gained a lot from my involvement with the community, most of which comes in that human dynamic I like to talk about so much. One final thing I guess I want to talk about. Do I feel that there should be more interaction from the top down (ie. from Bungie personnel or online team members)? Of course I would ideally like more personal feedback from the higher-ups, because it is their opinions that shape how things are done here on the site, or in other various arenas. Now, is that personal level of attention always feasable. I would venture it is not. However, as I have said in another long winded post I wrote, it is the simple things that can make or break community involvement. I know I have attempted to do things for the community in the past, and they weren't incredible successes, and I have become discouraged because of that. And it would be much more encouraging to hear back from those who control the ebb and flow of the site or Bungie itself to get that simple "pat on the back". I've said in the past that there needs to be some additional "reward" for being a good member. Giving to the Column and the Community is all well and good, but eventually it is nice to get something in return in the form of recognition (which can take a variety of forms, not just a "reward"). Most of the "good members" in my opinion have altruistic reasons for helping the community, but even those die-hard helpers get weary sometimes. Like the cliche, "sometimes it's the little things that mean the most", a simple "reward" could go a long way towards motivating people to become productive members. Maybe I have a rather sheltered view of the community because I haven't seen it really much before the "New Hawtness" was upon us. But rather it seems that with the incredible influx of members that came with Halo 2 being released, people had rather sheltered expectations of how the Column would respond to the masses who entered. It is no stretch of the imagination that almost over-night the Column expanded probably exponentially. With that influx of new members, many of which didn't know what to expect from the Column,and so many started to try to carve out their own personal part of it. Maybe this created factions, but for all the new members knew it was what they were suppose to be doing. Now, I've said countless things that probably would hurt my chances of being a moderator (ie saying that I'm an Elitist). However, that is how I feel, and if that hurts my chances of being a moderator, maybe I wasn't fit for the position anyways. And from all my conversations with those who are mods, maybe being a "normie" is the best place to be. Eh, damn the man...long live the "normies"!!! Humbly submitted, ~BerserkerBarage
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My eyes hurt........ Will post proper response after swelling goes down, LoL. But for now, I think things are fine. The new mod selection was a good one (evilcam and achilles are really classy people, trigger is cool, ash and godsprophet too.) The people aspect was/is a bit of a problem, but hey.....that's why it's a forum........
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Of course, it is always great for a member like me to come along and rant like this(the again this isn't my rant so...), it happens every few months or so, but nothing ever comes of it., but I digress This time I'm going to go a bit farther. I only hope Achronos sees this. As far as the community side goes, I have said my piece there, and what happens will happen, that I cannot change. I can however offer my advice to Achronos, if he will take it, as to a way to bring back the 'community' on his side. My advice falls under two different Categories: The 7th Column and Groups: How To Not Suck! The 7th Column: Bring it back, plain and simple. The 7th Column page is completely dead, this does not help to inspire a community feel at all. Try to get it active again. Some suggestions: Get the Spotlight up and running on some kind of regular basis, start doing the soapbox again, offer more Chapter support directly through the column. If you have to, try to get a certain someone who's entire job on B.net is to run that 7th Column page. Maybe reactivate Team ACS(Active Chapter Support) and this time with the 7th Column as a backing. I was a part of the original Team ACS, and we did well, but with our lack of resources were overcome. We had to many request for help, we could not handle it. An official 7th Column Team ACS would be a welcome addition to the Community and groups. I know not if this is possible, but try to get some real Bungie Employees, aside from Bungie.net workers(Frankie, yourself, Sketch, etc...) to become at least moderately active on the website. Of course this isn't an easy task I know, most will probably not want to do this. But, think about it for a moment. Having a Bungie employee around doing the sopbox, or for instance I have a technical question about Halo 3, or something to do with the engine, and I post it in the forums, there would be an actual employee there to answer me, participating. This would cause an immense community feel, as Bungie employees themselves would be a part of it. Groups: How To Not Suck I have no clue what you have in store for Group Achronos, so I can only speculate, but if your willing to take it here are a few ideas from a long time member. Refine groups more, it may be harsh but maybe we should go back to having to have your group creation accepted. This would cut down on all of these copy groups and encourage more activity in the original ones. No need to have another damn halo 3 Beta group, just join the one that already exists and enjoy. Make the homepages more customizable. As in, maybe design it so that you can choose different layout templates for your group Homepage. Nothing major of course, but kinda like the themes are now, just moving things around. Make more options also. Not all groups are about Clans, so why should all Display a Clan box? it should be a selectable option to show. Also, why not expand even farther on Clan groups. Not only may you show your Clan box but make it so that you can fully implement your entire clan status, members, info, and etc into your chapter. Kinda like merging the Clan Page and Group. This would encourage more clans to have groups as their homepages, and thus expand the 7th Column further. Of course these are just basic ideas, but they can be expanded on, refined, and made into something spectacular. I know, you don't just say thing and they happen, so making changes like these are not easy, but I have total confidence in your Web Development skills. [Edited on 3/14/2007]
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Thankyou Jim. I know it's hard to answer a lot of that without stepping on toes but that was well handled.
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I can't believe I missed this whilst I spent the night painting my Tug. God diggity damn. [Edited on 3/14/2007]
