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12/24/2012 7:35:53 AM
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Why I did not like the Didact as an antagonist in Halo 4

While Waypoint is down as I write this, I thought I might as well share why I didn't really care for the Didact as the main villain in Halo 4. I know Halo 4 threads are getting tiring, but this was one of the biggest let downs I felt about the game. 343i preached about how Master Chief was finally going to get a true antagonist and that the Didact, at least according to Frank O'Conner, would be seen as more of a noble figure while being the enemy. I found nothing of the sort. The Didact boiled down to being a Forerunner supremacist who hated humans for the sake of being evil. I have seen the argument made about the Halo novels setting the stage for this, but I disagree having read the novels. The Didact in the Forerunner Saga isn't nearly as big of a dickblister as he is in Halo 4. One way to drive this point home is by comparing a speech of his in the Terminals with the same speech in Halo: Primordium. Here is his confrontation with the Lord of Admirals in Halo 4: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bznq4Zr2gTw&feature=player_detailpage#t=330s]Here[/url] Now we can gather that he really despise humans in this and really sees them as a blight. Yet when placed in its proper context, the tone changes. Here is the speech in Primordium: [quote]My finest opponent, the Mantle accepts all who live fiercely, who defend their young, who build and struggle and grow, and even those who dominates humans have dominated, cruelly and without wisdom. But to all of us there is a time like this, when the Domain seeks to confirm our essences, and for you, that time is now. Know this, relentless enemy, killer of our children, Lord of Admirals: soon we will face the enemy you have faced and defeated. I can see that challenge coming to the Forerunners, and so do many others.... And we are afraid. That is why you, and many thousands of your people who may contain knowledge of how humans defended themselves against the Flood, will not pass cleanly and forever, as I would wish for a fellow warrior, but will be extracted and steeped down into the genetic code of many new humans. This is not my wish nor my will. It arises from the skill and the will of my life-mate, my wife, the Librarian, who sees much farther than I do down the twining streams of Living Time. So this additional indignity will be inflicted upon you. It means, I believe, that humans will not end here, but may rise again, fight again. Humans are always warriors. But what and whom they will fight, I do not know. For I fear the time of the Forerunners is drawing to a close. In this, the Librarian and I find agreement. Take satisfaction, warrior, in that possibility.[/quote] I see in this quote a lot of regret about Composing his enemies and an admittance that the Didact himself believes that the time of the Forerunners is coming to an end and that humans may rise again...and he seems to understand it. Yet in Halo 4 his sole motivation is to cast down the humans and have the Forerunners rise again. His speech in the epilogue reaffirms this. Honestly, it seems 343i did everything they could to expunge any noble qualities of the Didact just to make him evil. Aside from cutting his speech to the LoA, there is no mention of the Primordial talking to him on Charum Hakkor and how the Flood is retribution against the Forerunners, well that is the implication, nothing about the exploits of Bornsteller Makes Eternal Lasting, nothing about his conflict with the Forerunner Council and subsequent self-imposed exile to Earth, all things that shaped his personality and character. Not only that, but he saw the fall of his civilization, the destruction of his people at the hands of the Flood, really traumatic events. With everything 343i had to work with, they really could've made the Didact the new Darth Vader: a tragic villain who we feel sorry for. Instead we are treated to a generic bad guy with logic expected of from an 80s cartoon villain. I mean he Composed humans to make Promethean Knights 100,000 years ago and it didn't stop the Flood and 100,000 years later does the same thing, but without any real reason to do so besides, "Humans bad and are a threat to the galaxy!". Nevermind the fact he is simply turning innocent people into mindless, homicidal robots that kill against their will. Good going Didact. To wrap this thing up, the final confrontation was terrible too. One QTE and he is done. Personally, I would've used QTEs for a fight, but expand on it. Have the Chief actually fight the Didact with jabs to his face, duck and block blows from the Didact and seemingly incapacitate him. He would run to arm the nuke, but be grabbed, pulled toward the Didact and get punched the -blam!- out! Then Cortana would bind him and, instead of a pulse grenade, maybe Chief could shove the nuke in the Didact's armor and push him off the bridge and actually give him a realistic chance to escape the nukes detonation. Sorry if that seems contrived, but it works better in my head ;p. So in conclusion, I just felt disappointed with what 343i did with the Didact. So much potential and yet he is a step below past Halo antagonists like Truth, Gravemind and/or Guilty Spark. If you read everything, thanks for your time.
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#Offtopic #Flood

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  • Like many things in Halo 4, the Campaign was just another missed opportunity.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra No. The difference being is that all the Harry Potter books exist and skipping them is flawed logic. Silentium does not exist, so I can't factor it.[/quote]You can't factor it yet. Which is why it's pretty dumb to be saying the story doesn't make sense when you can't factor in a whole third of the story. And the Harry Potter analogy is perfectly valid. You don't seem to know what you're arguing.[quote] So because they think it will change what I think, I am wrong?[/quote]Because you are judging it and saying you believe the story will be fine when you know the actual story, saying the story is bad because of your own ignorance makes you wrong. [quote] So it is dumb for me to expect the story of the game to be properly told...in the game. What madness. [/quote]It's dumb for you to say a story isn't properly told when you only know the beginning and ending of it. [quote] It is silly of me to say a character in a video game is bad as a villain because of motives and behavior not shown in the game and not backed up by the canon because I have not read a book that does not exist yet?[/quote]It's silly of you to say a character in a video game is bad as a villain despite the fact that his motives are EXPLICITLY stated (humanity is a threat and doesn't/shouldn't have the 'mantle of responsibility') in the game, but you're saying it is told poorly because you have half the backstory and not the whole thing. You're basically -blam!-ing about the release date of the book, not about the character or the story. You don't know what you're arguing because the thing you were originally stating is clearly ridiculous. It's very simple. :/

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BF117HALO[/quote] 'Tis the Ur-Didact because Silentium's description states that the Bornstellar-Didact has been travelling the galaxy with the Librarian as she indexes races: [quote]Evidence-gathering agents known collectively as Catalog have been dispatched to collect testimony from the Librarian and both Didacts: the Ur-Didact, treacherously abandoned in a Flood-infested system, and [b]the Bornstellar Didact, who accompanies the Librarian as she preserves specimens against the dire possibility of Halo extermination.[/b][/quote] A conflict between the Ur-Didact and the Librarian is established: [quote]Because of that barbarism, a greater evil looms. [b]Only the Ur-Didact and the Librarian -- husband and wife pushed into desperate conflict -- hold the keys to a solution.[/b][/quote] We see this in Halo 4 where the Librarian believes humanity is the solution to the Precursor question, while the Didact sees the Composer to, to quote the Librarian in Halo 4, "provide his solution and his revenge". Herein lies the problem with Halo 4 then, as Cobra pointed out. There are holes in the narrative that Silentium has to fill in, at this moment in time we can't fill those with anything beyond (insertgenitaljokehere) reasoned logical assumptions based on what we already know. It was a mistake to delay Silentium for the purpose of keeping Halo 4's story under wraps, it should have been released alongside the game.[/quote] Yeah, that's why I thought it was the Ur-Didact too.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BF117HALO[/quote] 'Tis the Ur-Didact because Silentium's description states that the Bornstellar-Didact has been travelling the galaxy with the Librarian as she indexes races: [quote]Evidence-gathering agents known collectively as Catalog have been dispatched to collect testimony from the Librarian and both Didacts: the Ur-Didact, treacherously abandoned in a Flood-infested system, and [b]the Bornstellar Didact, who accompanies the Librarian as she preserves specimens against the dire possibility of Halo extermination.[/b][/quote] A conflict between the Ur-Didact and the Librarian is established: [quote]Because of that barbarism, a greater evil looms. [b]Only the Ur-Didact and the Librarian -- husband and wife pushed into desperate conflict -- hold the keys to a solution.[/b][/quote] We see this in Halo 4 where the Librarian believes humanity is the solution to the Precursor question, while the Didact sees the Composer to, to quote the Librarian in Halo 4, "provide his solution and his revenge". Herein lies the problem with Halo 4 then, as Cobra pointed out. There are holes in the narrative that Silentium has to fill in, at this moment in time we can't fill those with anything beyond (insertgenitaljokehere) reasoned logical assumptions based on what we already know. It was a mistake to delay Silentium for the purpose of keeping Halo 4's story under wraps, it should have been released alongside the game.

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  • To sort out any confusion over the Didact in Halo 4, there are two Didacts - Bornstellar and the Ur-Didact. If I remember correctly, The Bornstellar Didact was the one who went with a wounded Chakas to interrogate the captive. This was the one who began feeling sympathy for Chakas after all he had been put through. The Primordial said that Forerunners were never worthy to inherit the Mantle, which infuriated the Didact, who killed the captive, who also said there was no cure for the Flood. The Ur-Didact, after his trial with Faber, was sent to a Flood-Infested planet, left to die. So that's what the two Didacts were doing before all the confusing stuff happened. One of the Didacts started coming up with ways to stop the Flood, advancing into a new form which still was not immune. His Prometheans volunteered to be Composed as the Didact's new form was immune to the Composer. Upon seeing that this worked against the Flood, he began using the Composer on humans, which the Librarian considered genocide and locked him away in a Cryptum. This is Halo 4 Didact. Halo 4 Didact could be Bornstellar Didact for several reasons: -He was the one who was told that Forerunners were not meant for the Mantle. Alternatively, this could have stopped him from trying to attain the Mantle. -He was also told there was no cure for the Flood, which could have compelled him towards finding a solution. Alternatively, it could have deterred him from it and made him see activating the rings as the only solution. Halo 4 Didact could be Ur-Didact for several reasons: -This was the Didact who went to war with the humans long ago, and holds a personal grudge against them. -This Didact was not told about not being worthy for the Mantle, so he could still think that Forerunners are the rightful holders of it. -In the Silentium blurb, it describes the Ur-Didact or the Librarian making an "ultimate sacrifice" or something. This COULD be the Composer, however, it could also be activating the rings. It could also be the Librarian locking the Didact away in a Cryptum. One of the Didacts tried to stop the Librarian from trying to save all the sentient species, but the Librarian eventually became stranded on Earth. This Didact saw no choice but to acitivate the rings. This could have been Ur-Didact, making his "ultimate sacrifice", or it could be Bornstellar. This Didact is NOT the Halo 4 Didact. This is probably written in a confusing manner, however this information, plus what we will find out in Silentium, will probably help us deduce which Didact we faced in Halo 4. If the Didact we see in the Terminals is the same one throughout, then it is DEFINITELY the Ur-Didact, as he was the only one who fought the humans. However, there is a chance that in the middle it switches to the point of view of Bornstellar Didact. I guess we'll have to wait for Silentium for us to find out. Hopefully it'll expand on the Didact a bit more and further explain his motives. Personally, I liked him, probably because of his Harbinger voice.

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  • I feel the terminals flesh him out really well.

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  • I loved halo 4's campaign but find myself agreeing with you. But maybe it has something to do with the mutation he recieved while he was trapped in the flood infected system. Think about it, before he was captured by the master builder and trapped there he hated but respected humans. I think he saw something in there that made him hate humans even deeper or the mutation altered his mind. Or something else that gave him hope showing that the forerunners may be able to rise again and it involved elimination of humans. Im sure silentium will explain things.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Night Watchman You think he wants humans eradicated just because he thinks "we're evil?" Do you know anything about the Didact? I'm not even going to waste my time here.[/quote] Okay.

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  • You think he wants humans eradicated just because he thinks "we're evil?" Do you know anything about the Didact? I'm not even going to waste my time here. [Edited on 12.24.2012 2:40 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 I do like it a lot, I thought it had some excellent bits (until you had to run errands for the Infinity rather than making the most of exploring Requiem), but I'll be the first to admit there are some small and large mishaps. There really needed to be a 2-part mission on Installation 03 instead of that mission on Ivanoff Station, they could have taken the chance to give us bits of the Didact's history throughout the story which would make John and the player question exactly who was in the right and what you were fighting for. What if, for instance, the Didact was aggressively nurturing humanity into warriors to fight the Precursors by granting them immunity to the Flood, opposing the Librarisn's snail-paced plan of careful development? That would be a great conflict since you see that the Didact is saving humanity in one way, being consistent also with what he says to Forthencho about humanity rising again.[/quote] See? That would've worked. I'd be down for that.

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  • I do like it a lot, I thought it had some excellent bits (until you had to run errands for the Infinity rather than making the most of exploring Requiem), but I'll be the first to admit there are some small and large mishaps. There really needed to be a 2-part mission on Installation 03 instead of that mission on Ivanoff Station, they could have taken the chance to give us bits of the Didact's history throughout the story which would make John and the player question exactly who was in the right and what you were fighting for. What if, for instance, the Didact was aggressively nurturing humanity into warriors to fight the Precursors by granting them immunity to the Flood, opposing the Librarisn's snail-paced plan of careful development? That would be a great conflict since you see that the Didact is saving humanity in one way, being consistent also with what he says to Forthencho about humanity rising again.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 I agree and disagree. On one hand, the Didact got a very one-sided portrayal in the main game, he did seem to be just your 'run of the mill' "DEATH TO HUMANS!" villain, much like Truth, they really skimped on a great deal of essential plot points which not only shaped the Didact but the future of humanity as well - Timeless One's 'prophecy'. But taking that into account with the Terminals and Silentium's description, it just seems like poorly structured releases on 343's part. Silentium was delayed because it's riddled with Halo 4 spoilers, but it contains an essential part of the story where the Ur-Didact turns against the Librarian. In my mind, I can see how this plays out, since the Terminals do touch on it (albeit lightly). Silentium should have been released either before or alongside Halo 4, there's a massive gap in his character's development. I reckon that once we have the full picture we'll appreciate it more, but at this time you're right, he was pretty poorly executed and lost much of his potential as a sympathetic figure.[/quote] Thank you ajw. I was a bit worried about your reaction seeing as how I've kinda gathered you liked Halo 4 lol. But yeah, maybe my opinion may change, but Halo 4 will still remain as a dark spot on 343is storytelling record IMO.

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  • I agree and disagree. On one hand, the Didact got a very one-sided portrayal in the main game, he did seem to be just your 'run of the mill' "DEATH TO HUMANS!" villain, much like Truth, they really skimped on a great deal of essential plot points which not only shaped the Didact but the future of humanity as well - Timeless One's 'prophecy'. But taking that into account with the Terminals and Silentium's description, it just seems like poorly structured releases on 343's part. Silentium was delayed because it's riddled with Halo 4 spoilers, but it contains an essential part of the story where the Ur-Didact turns against the Librarian. In my mind, I can see how this plays out, since the Terminals do touch on it (albeit lightly). Silentium should have been released either before or alongside Halo 4, there's a massive gap in his character's development. I reckon that once we have the full picture we'll appreciate it more, but at this time you're right, he was pretty poorly executed and lost much of his potential as a sympathetic figure.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] blackhawk945 Didnt like it either.[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArmedAssassin72 Really? Through all we know about him through all mediums available, I just chalked it up to a man who is just trying to save his race and ensure its rise now that the flood were gone. No doubt if it was an all powerful human and a race that him/her had previously fought was rising and taking the old tech the humans had left behind and started calling it their own advancements, I would expect action. The poor guy is just trying to save his people.[/quote] Thing is though, his own people condemned him for his actions from the sounds of it and his own wife abandoned him. I think they'd be horrified if he reclaimed power the way he did.

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  • Really? Through all we know about him through all mediums available, I just chalked it up to a man who is just trying to save his race and ensure its rise now that the flood were gone. No doubt if it was an all powerful human and a race that him/her had previously fought was rising and taking the old tech the humans had left behind and started calling it their own advancements, I would expect action. The poor guy is just trying to save his people. Though I do agree he is represented in the cut scenes to be rather pointed and loathing. He just didn't get enough screen time. It was just intro and end. I just hope Halo 5 brings perspective from both sides more. Just like Bungie did with Halo 2 with Arby, how about introduce a Forerunner protagonist? We would definitely get a real taste of what they stand for and such. Plus with cutscenes between both of those factions. Just my two cents. :P

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  • Its hilarious how misinformed you all are.....

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  • He was not in enough of the game either. I was also disappointed at the "boss fight" towards the end.

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  • *glares at the OP*

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  • He dislikes humans and blames them for quite a bit. The deaths of his children, the extinction of his race, and the Forerunner loss of the mantle. His civilization had so much and all of it was lost because of the humans. He had so much and all of it taken away from him because of humanity. He has reason to hate. Though he was poorly executed. The Composer was the easiest way for him to eliminate humanity and become more powerful in the process. It makes sense. I will give you he was a poorly executed villian and there are some contradiction between the Forerunner trilogy and Halo 4.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kevin Rudd FTW [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mad Cat 74 It's like if Hank from King of the Hill suddenly had to become a Green Beret to save the town from invading Chinese communists.[/quote][/quote]

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  • [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiTXf3hZ354&feature=youtu.be]My Reasons why i didn't like the campaign[/url]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] burritosenior ... Because they're separate. They aren't a continuation of the exact same story. The Forerunner trilogy... it's a trilogy. One story over three books. Are you going to complain that you read the first two Harry Potters and when you found out Voldemort dies in book seven you complained about how it made absolutely no sense because Harry was only a second year last you saw? [/quote] No. The difference being is that all the Harry Potter books exist and skipping them is flawed logic. Silentium does not exist, so I can't factor it. [quote]It was finished well before Halo 4 release. It was delayed because it has a lot of Halo 4 spoilers according to Frankie. Your 'should' is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that the people in charge think you're completely wrong. So... yeah...[/quote] So because they think it will change what I think, I am wrong? We'll see about that. And I still don't see why it can't release in January and/or February. It has spoilers, yes, but by January the game will have been out for 2 months. [quote]If you want it to make sense, you need to know the whole story or don't judge it based off the story at all. It's a very simple concept. Judging something when you are aware you have a very incomplete knowledge of it is just... well it's kind of dumb. :/[/quote] So it is dumb for me to expect the story of the game to be properly told...in the game. What madness. [quote]It was fine if you didn't read the books. And it likely will be if you read all the books. You really are complaining because you don't have the whole story. It's pretty silly...[/quote] It is silly of me to say a character in a video game is bad as a villain because of motives and behavior not shown in the game and not backed up by the canon because I have not read a book that does not exist yet? [Edited on 12.24.2012 12:37 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] finalknight92 Didact doesn't feel like an enemy. Lol ANCIENT EVIL AWAKENS, ahahahaha. Too forced, too cliched. [/quote]Lol this. He actually didn't seem evil at all to me. Just a prejudiced idiot blinded by hatred. [Edited on 12.24.2012 12:28 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra In the same way I shouldn't have to read any of the Robots series or Empire series of Issac Asimov's to know what is going on in the Foundation novels. They are all within the same canon, yet each is self-contained and you are not disadvantaged if you don't read one particular series. They compliment each other. [/quote]... Because they're separate. They aren't a continuation of the exact same story. The Forerunner trilogy... it's a trilogy. One story over three books. Are you going to complain that you read the first two Harry Potters and when you found out Voldemort dies in book seven you complained about how it made absolutely no sense because Harry was only a second year last you saw? [quote] Likewise, if the third novel is supposed to be important to the story in the game, it should've released before it, not after it. Still, it was delayed to incorporate elements of Halo 4 in it, so I doubt anything groundbreaking will be revealed. The Terminals gave us a glimpse of what to expect, yet they did diddly. [/quote]It was finished well before Halo 4 release. It was delayed because it has a lot of Halo 4 spoilers according to Frankie. Your 'should' is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that the people in charge think you're completely wrong. So... yeah... [quote]It is not my responsibility to read something in the future in order for 343i to tell the story. They should HELP me along, but I ultimately should not have to wait about 4 months after the game is released for everything to make sense.[/quote]If you want it to make sense, you need to know the whole story or don't judge it based off the story at all. It's a very simple concept. Judging something when you are aware you have a very incomplete knowledge of it is just... well it's kind of dumb. :/ [quote]but reading the book will not make up for the vagueness and poor storytelling in Halo 4. [/quote]It was fine if you didn't read the books. And it likely will be if you read all the books. You really are complaining because you don't have the whole story. It's pretty silly...

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] burritosenior [b]Why?[/b] Why should you not have to read the entire story for it to make sense? It's like you're saying if you read books 1-8 of a series, skip 9-13, and go to 14 you shouldn't have the read those four books to understand what is going on. It just doesn't make sense. If you're going to judge based on background knowledge you have then fine, but judging based off something everybody knows is incomplete just seems pretty ridiculous.[/quote] In the same way I shouldn't have to read any of the Robots series or Empire series of Issac Asimov's to know what is going on in the Foundation novels. They are all within the same canon, yet each is self-contained and you are not disadvantaged if you don't read one particular series. They compliment each other. Likewise, if the third novel is supposed to be important to the story in the game, it should've released before it, not after it. Still, it was delayed to incorporate elements of Halo 4 in it, so I doubt anything groundbreaking will be revealed. The Terminals gave us a glimpse of what to expect, yet they did diddly. [quote]Because you don't have 1/3rd of the story. Seems sort of like a common sense deal that you should wait for the ending to a trilogy before saying something you skipped ahead and saw doesn't make sense...[/quote] It is not my responsibility to read something in the future in order for 343i to tell the story. They should HELP me along, but I ultimately should not have to wait about 4 months after the game is released for everything to make sense. As of now, the Didact was not a good antagonist in Halo 4. Maybe things will change in Silentium? Perhaps, but reading the book will not make up for the vagueness and poor storytelling in Halo 4.

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