[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] edableshoe Take for example, music (sorry, it's my go-to subject.) Now, let's say for years, you've been listening to all of the popular music of today, all of the pop, and hip-hop, rap, and rock. So, you decide you want to critique, say, a Marchello Sonata. First off, anything found in even modern classical is widely different than Baroque style charts. Nonetheless, you think that, because you listen to a lot of music, that you know enough to critique this Sonata. You're wrong. Even if you had a small amount of music theory knowledge, unless you also had lessons in music history, and have studied music long enough, you wouldn't know that Marchello wrote the chart without any markings. You wouldn't know that he never placed a tempo on the piece, and that any copy you buy of this Sonata could very well be different than the more common copy, because the arranger you picked was not as well regarded. [/quote] Oh my Rachmaninoff, a music bro! >Marchello >not Marcello [quote]What we have today is the mistaking of false entitlement for rights. We have no right to claim validity to our opinions on something we know almost nothing about. [/quote] I agree completely. I really am not a believer in "I've paid for it, so my opinion is of paramount importance": if you don't know the way the cogs turn, you have no right to say they're going in the wrong direction. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos It bothers me that in this day and age that you need to put opinion tags in an attempt to be politically correct. People should be able to say whatever they want, it should be up to the reader to decide what they agree and disagree with or what is fact and what is opinion.[/quote] /opinion [Edited on 11.19.2012 4:21 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Arbiter 739 [opinion]Halo 3 was the pinnacle of the Halo series, IMO. I still play it. Halo: Reach was more casual-friendly and I didn't like it as much. Better Custom games than Halo 3 though. Halo 4 is a -blam!- Halo game, but for a Sci-Fi MilitaryFPS it's ok. Halo has no place using MilitaryFPS -blam!-. I guess thats what you get trying to force talent from all over to replicate a game's success.[/opinion] [/quote]It bothers me that in this day and age that you need to put opinion tags in an attempt to be politically correct. People should be able to say whatever they want, it should be up to the reader to decide what they agree and disagree with or what is fact and what is opinion.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 Now everyone LOVES Halo 2[/quote]Not really.[/quote] Yeah I still don't like it.

Why are you seeing so much being said about these games? Both sites have many, many Halo fans on them. Besides, if companies want to keep producing bad games then they will continue to get complaints. They CAN just learn from them, but 343i has not and has gone further down the road that made people complain about Halo: Reach. [opinion]Halo 3 was the pinnacle of the Halo series, IMO. I still play it. Halo: Reach was more casual-friendly and I didn't like it as much. Better Custom games than Halo 3 though. Halo 4 is a -blam!- Halo game, but for a Sci-Fi MilitaryFPS it's ok. Halo has no place using MilitaryFPS -blam!-. I guess thats what you get trying to force talent from all over to replicate a game's success.[/opinion] [Edited on 11.19.2012 2:00 PM PST]

The internet is simply an incredibly vocal minority when it comes to video games. You go on the forums of any games dev, and for the majority of the time, you'll just see complaints, completely unreflective of the number of people (generally) playing and enjoying their games. nuts edit: Oh, and -blam!- nostalgia man, people are completely hypocritical when it comes to nostalgia. [Edited on 11.19.2012 1:50 PM PST]

Because Halo 3 was awesome.

You're right, I don't see why moar people just accept what Bungie feeds us. Picky little brats. Not really, people have a right to critisize, it actually hepls the developer to enhance there next title for there community. Though far to many people over critisize, like simply saying "that sucks". Witch helps no one and only annoys the other members. EDIT: Also, it's not just the Halo and Bungie community, it happens for every game. And people have been complaining about games for a long [i]long[/i] time. It's the internet bro, it happens. [Edited on 11.19.2012 12:50 PM PST]

It seems that this new generation is more about the "what have you done lately for me" crowd. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 The Wheel of Life.[/quote]The wheels on the bus go round and round.

1. Stop going to Halo 4 threads in The Flood. 2. Stop going to Waypoint. Problem = Solved. ©

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Okay maybe it wasn't all "rainbows and sunshine" back then but it wasn't as bad as today.[/quote] [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20050719081050/http://www.halo2sucks.com/]Nostalgia Time[/url].[/quote]*[i]Hits head against wall..[/i] They must of had a lot of free time.[/quote] That was the reaction of many people. But the amount of time, energy and effort that was put into that site, the community and how it was (like it or not) a sub/splinter community of the overall community (there were a lot of dual-members both here and there), I believe that it showed just how passionate and particular fans can be when they invest and attach to a game/story/mechanic/style so long and deeply. People begin to feel that the game is MINE, and their understanding, experience, fantasy and predictions for where it will go, those are the ONLY reasonable outcomes. Anything other than "what I see happening in this thing that I consider mine" is a failure of the makers to understand "what is really important". Of course, combine that with the Internet and the social phenomenon of "I've found other people who agree with me, therefor we are numerous, therefor we must be the majority, therefor we should not only be heard, but obeyed. Any other view is illogical and must be destroyed for the good of all." and there you have it. The Wheel of Life.[/quote] Now everyone LOVES Halo 2[/quote]Do they though? If anything, those that love Halo 2 only love it because it is gone, not because it is old. I have gone back and played each Halo numerous times, and have found that they are, in fact, heavily out dated. Especially when you introduce a game like BF3 into your repertoire, it is hard to thoroughly enjoy the "has beens." People can look back to Halo 2 on XBL and say they miss the fun and how much they love it, because recreating what they fell in love with is impossible to the same scale and uniqueness that it once had. Therefor, the memory can't be spoiled. But any Halo 2 vet damn well knows they don't want a repeat of that game, because it was broken. Flat out broken. The thing is, nowadays, users think that by purchasing a game, they have a right to critique it, when in fact, all they feel is false entitlement. Take for example, music (sorry, it's my go-to subject.) Now, let's say for years, you've been listening to all of the popular music of today, all of the pop, and hip-hop, rap, and rock. So, you decide you want to critique, say, a Marchello Sonata. First off, anything found in even modern classical is widely different than Baroque style charts. Nonetheless, you think that, because you listen to a lot of music, that you know enough to critique this Sonata. You're wrong. Even if you had a small amount of music theory knowledge, unless you also had lessons in music history, and have studied music long enough, you wouldn't know that Marchello wrote the chart without any markings. You wouldn't know that he never placed a tempo on the piece, and that any copy you buy of this Sonata could very well be different than the more common copy, because the arranger you picked was not as well regarded. Same thing goes for games, in that a customer buys the game, and because they've been playing games for years, they believe that they are entitled to a certain amount of knowledge, when in fact, they are almost always wrong. There are points of feedback that game developers want, but for the most part, they made a system in the game the way they wanted it to be for a very specific reason, and that reason is probably buried in thousands of lines of code. What we have today is the mistaking of false entitlement for rights. We have no right to claim validity to our opinions on something we know almost nothing about. Our way of proving something needs to be fixed is in the way we play. Every exploit will be used to its fullest in a game, and that is how a developer knows that something needs to be fixed. Not through our words, but our actions.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 Now everyone LOVES Halo 2[/quote]Not really.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Okay maybe it wasn't all "rainbows and sunshine" back then but it wasn't as bad as today.[/quote] [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20050719081050/http://www.halo2sucks.com/]Nostalgia Time[/url].[/quote]*[i]Hits head against wall..[/i] They must of had a lot of free time.[/quote] That was the reaction of many people. But the amount of time, energy and effort that was put into that site, the community and how it was (like it or not) a sub/splinter community of the overall community (there were a lot of dual-members both here and there), I believe that it showed just how passionate and particular fans can be when they invest and attach to a game/story/mechanic/style so long and deeply. People begin to feel that the game is MINE, and their understanding, experience, fantasy and predictions for where it will go, those are the ONLY reasonable outcomes. Anything other than "what I see happening in this thing that I consider mine" is a failure of the makers to understand "what is really important". Of course, combine that with the Internet and the social phenomenon of "I've found other people who agree with me, therefor we are numerous, therefor we must be the majority, therefor we should not only be heard, but obeyed. Any other view is illogical and must be destroyed for the good of all." and there you have it. The Wheel of Life.[/quote] Now everyone LOVES Halo 2 [Edited on 11.19.2012 9:22 AM PST]

Welcome to the internet, OP. People will always complain about everything, it's actually not too different from real life.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ARBITOR 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Okay maybe it wasn't all "rainbows and sunshine" back then but it wasn't as bad as today.[/quote] [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20050719081050/http://www.halo2sucks.com/]Nostalgia Time[/url].[/quote]*[i]Hits head against wall..[/i] They must of had a lot of free time.[/quote] That was the reaction of many people. But the amount of time, energy and effort that was put into that site, the community and how it was (like it or not) a sub/splinter community of the overall community (there were a lot of dual-members both here and there), I believe that it showed just how passionate and particular fans can be when they invest and attach to a game/story/mechanic/style so long and deeply. People begin to feel that the game is MINE, and their understanding, experience, fantasy and predictions for where it will go, those are the ONLY reasonable outcomes. Anything other than "what I see happening in this thing that I consider mine" is a failure of the makers to understand "what is really important". Of course, combine that with the Internet and the social phenomenon of "I've found other people who agree with me, therefor we are numerous, therefor we must be the majority, therefor we should not only be heard, but obeyed. Any other view is illogical and must be destroyed for the good of all." and there you have it. The Wheel of Life.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Luke35120 Paying for a product gives you the right to provide criticism for the product you paid for. Being constructive about it benefits both parties. [/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Okay maybe it wasn't all "rainbows and sunshine" back then but it wasn't as bad as today.[/quote] [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20050719081050/http://www.halo2sucks.com/]Nostalgia Time[/url].[/quote]*[i]Hits head against wall..[/i] They must of had a lot of free time.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1065 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Sorry but I just remember all of us being so energetic and happy during the times of Halo 3 and Halo 2.[/quote]You're right everyone held the same opinion on topics such as, BR spread, or ranking systems. I think that all of the complaints are helpful to game companies such as Bungie or 343i. Bungie at least has always appreciated constructive criticism, or so we've been told, and it helps them improve the next game. It would be horrible if people didn't talk about perceived problems in games. The creators would just assume that the minor or major things that usually get torn apart by avid fans are being enjoyed. It's all part of the process.[/quote]Indeed. Even if they aren't being constructive or civil, you can push aside their words and dig at the core idea behind that complaint, and that can be interesting and useful, even if the original poster doesn't want to present it in that fashion.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Okay maybe it wasn't all "rainbows and sunshine" back then but it wasn't as bad as today.[/quote] [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20050719081050/http://www.halo2sucks.com/]Nostalgia Time[/url].

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Sorry but I just remember all of us being so energetic and happy during the times of Halo 3 and Halo 2.[/quote]You're right everyone held the same opinion on topics such as, BR spread, or ranking systems. I think that all of the complaints are helpful to game companies such as Bungie or 343i. Bungie at least has always appreciated constructive criticism, or so we've been told, and it helps them improve the next game. It would be horrible if people didn't talk about perceived problems in games. The creators would just assume that the minor or major things that usually get torn apart by avid fans are being enjoyed. It's all part of the process.

Welcome to the world of gaming. Where people complain about games changing and complain if games stay the same.

Internet be internetting.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x Foman123 x [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deadman ink Sorry but I just remember all of us being so energetic and happy during the times of Halo 3 and Halo 2.[/quote]Oh yeah. It was all rainbows and sunshine back then.[/quote] Okay maybe it wasn't all "rainbows and sunshine" back then but it wasn't as bad as today. When I said abused I should've said more of an excuse for people to whine. Thanks for replying by the way guys. I just needed to get this question out of my mind and at least share it. I knew at least some of the Bnet community would be having a mature conversation about this. I don't bother going on waypoint anymore. [Edited on 11.19.2012 6:04 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] It's been link that for a while. Even in Halo 2 and 3, you just don't remember it because most people don't look back at how bad things were. Remember all the complaining about BR spread in Halo 3 and lunging in Halo 2. It was there, and it will always be here.[/quote] Oh god. Two weekends ago, I had the chance to play 4 hours of Halo 3 matchmaking for the first time since probably 2010. One of the first things that started annoying me was the BR spread. (It's absolutely useless at anything more than 100, maybe 150 meters.)

It's always been like that.

Much like the media, the forums of both sites are usually filled with the negatives rather than the positives.