[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SCORCHHEAD Lets get this straight, not all elites hate humans. Its sort of a cold war going on between them. I think I read in a bulletin somewhere that when requiem was discovered, the covenant somehow came together again, thinking there religion, was in fact, truth. I put a lot of commas in that sentence...[/quote] Some of the Elites reformed a "new" Covenant called The Storm, with client races such as Grunts, Hunters and Jackals. Their goal was to unlock Requiem's secrets and awaken the Didact.

Lets get this straight, not all elites hate humans. Its sort of a cold war going on between them. I think I read in a bulletin somewhere that when requiem was discovered, the covenant somehow came together again, thinking there religion, was in fact, truth. I put a lot of commas in that sentence...

It's "are" not "is." And I honestly do not have the slightest idea. I am interested to see how 343i justifies this.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa When did I ever say "every single one", if you'll actually go back and [i]read[/i] my post, you'll see that I go on to talk about "majority" and "minority". Unless someone changed the definition of the word "majority" and didn't tell anyone, it does not mean, and has never meant, every single one of something. I am not presenting anything as a hive-mind at all.[/quote]Travis never says "every single one" either... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [i]All[/i] of the Elites were in the Covenant...if you meant the military then what you said is true :P But all of the Elites were within the Covenant. And actually considering how the majority of the Elites considered adults and of age are soldiers on the frontlines and in the military, pretty much the whole species would fall into the military aspect of your scenario. And actually the part about any not currently serving actively in the military at that time is wrong as Bungie made mention of a very large, and growing, number of the Elite youth being human sympathizers...so obviously they knew enough about humans to form an opinion of them.[/quote]Yeah I meant military, my bad. Women and young children are obviously not in the military though. Not all Elites are in the military. And I didn't make any major mention of the Elite youth. Anyways, they would have spent less time killing humans, and by the time he joined there was probably more questioning of the Prophet's orders. So yes, I think they could formed an opinion. Not sure how that connects to what I said... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa In Glasslands Trilogy they're still [u]all[/u] haters, doesn't matter if they want peace at the moment or not...they only want it so they can have strength to finish humans off and start fighting again later.[/quote]Only the majority. Remember how the majority doesn't mean all? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa And ONI is not at all representative, and never has been, of humanity. [i]They[/i] are the problem, not the UNSC or humanity in general, just ONI and ONI alone...and really it's just Parangosky and her toadies/minions/flunkies, ONI the organization itself is only a problem so long as the retarded hag or any of her inner circle are leading it. Parangosky is a rogue agent and isn't acting on orders at all or in any official capacity, she's doing what she wants to do and saying "-blam!- the chain of command and all consequences, my word is law and all that matters and no one else's!"[/quote]-blam!- THE POLICE! Lol. Anyways, ONI is part of the UNSC right? So if the UNSC is the parent, and ONI is a disobedient child, then it is VERY much still the UNSC's problem when it comes to ONI. Sure ONI gets punished, but the UNSC takes the blame as well. Besides, ONI is very representative of the human nature. We want to survive as a species so we do whatever it takes. Survival of the fittest. Sabatoge has also been around for years. It's been ingrained in us to try and weaken the enemy, so what ONI is doing is nothing out of the ordinary.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 But it is. 343 said so. To add onto that, you are commiting the same error she is. You are presenting the Elites as a hive mind with a small minority on the side. Except you reversed the viewpoints. Travis has a VERY small minority that likes humans, and a have a majority that hates them. You have the opposite. I think, in a hypothetically "real" situation, the majority Elites really wouldn't care. There would minority sympathizes and haters. However the majority could care less because they have to rebuild their society. Only the Elites IN the Covenant came to see the admirable qualities of Humans. Elites on the home world probably didn't care at all what happened to them. Domestic problems should be, and would be, their first concern. They have to get their society rebuilt in order to sustain themselves. Foreign problems are another story. Don't forget that the war with the Brutes continues onwards (Halo Evolutions) so that should also be a concern, not starting another war. The Sangheili in the Kilo Five trilogy clearly state that they want peace with the humans ONLY to rebuild their strength. In other words, they only want a cease fire. Regardless the majority of Elites shouldn't be all haters or sympathizers. On top of that, Humanity went ahead and messed up... as usual. ONI is attempting to start a civil war on Sangheilos to keep the Elites in a fractured and weakened state. Not good for diplomatic relations.[/quote] I'm not going to discuss canon with you as neither one of us is going to budge on that issue and it will just be a complete waste of time to both of us. When did I ever say "every single one", if you'll actually go back and [i]read[/i] my post, you'll see that I go on to talk about "majority" and "minority". Unless someone changed the definition of the word "majority" and didn't tell anyone, it does not mean, and has never meant, every single one of something. I am not presenting anything as a hive-mind at all. [i]All[/i] of the Elites were in the Covenant...if you meant the military then what you said is true :P But all of the Elites were within the Covenant. And actually considering how the majority of the Elites considered adults and of age are soldiers on the frontlines and in the military, pretty much the whole species would fall into the military aspect of your scenario. And actually the part about any not currently serving actively in the military at that time is wrong as Bungie made mention of a very large, and growing, number of the Elite youth being human sympathizers...so obviously they knew enough about humans to form an opinion of them. In Glasslands Trilogy they're still all haters, doesn't matter if they want peace at the moment or not...they only want it so they can have strength to finish humans off and start fighting again later. And ONI is not at all representative, and never has been, of humanity. [i]They[/i] are the problem, not the UNSC or humanity in general, just ONI and ONI alone...and really it's just Parangosky and her toadies/minions/flunkies, ONI the organization itself is only a problem so long as the retarded hag or any of her inner circle are leading it. Parangosky is a rogue agent and isn't acting on orders at all or in any official capacity, she's doing what she wants to do and saying "-blam!- the chain of command and all consequences, my word is law and all that matters and no one else's!"

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tjal On a side note: Travis did actually say that most of the keeps were neutral, hence the almost defeat of the arbiter... This proves the larger "no-care" group who just follow the elite with the most power.[/quote] Actually, I recall the statement was more like "A lot of the keeps are holding their ships back and letting the two hardcore groups duke it out, and then they'd support whoever won. So it can be a "Meh, who cares?" or a "Well... what if I commit all my forces, and my side loses? I'd be defenseless!" [Edited on 10.27.2012 7:18 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 Only the first "you" in that post is referring to you personally. The rest are general.[/quote]I see. If the Halo games fail to mention these human sympathziers, then I will have to believe that they are no longer important at all in any way what so ever. They would become so unimportant that they might as well not exist. Unless another series of books presents a different view point.

Only the first "you" in that post is referring to you personally. The rest are general.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 It doesn't make sense to us. Therefore we are the adult with a brain that can look back and find facts. [b]We can look back into the "facts" (previous canon)[/b], and we can find that there are some Elites who want peace with the Humans (e.g. Elite Youth), and not simply a cease fire.[/quote] What makes you believe that any of that is still applicable? What if this is just the people at 343i deciding to retcon a piece of the story that they personally do not like? You don't actually have to say things like "All Elites hate Humans" or "That Sangheili Youth fact is no longer canon" in order to retcon it. All you need to do is marginalise it and it will become insignificant, and eventually people will just forget about it. In saying that mostly all of the Elites despise Humanity you are indirectly retconning that youth fact by marginalising it and making it appear to be insignificant and irrelevant, like what that Roberto guy up above tried to do in his post. This is basically what Frankie said. Every fact you decide to draw attention to surrounding the construction of your fictional universe is important. It helps set the scene and give context to what is happening in a story as broad as Halo's. When it was outlined that there were a growing number of Elite youth, I don't think that was supposed to be taken as a little insignificant fact that can be ignored for all intents and purposes going forwards in the story. If it were insignificant then I'm sure it would have been described as such from the get go, like a fringe sect or something. In saying that mostly all of them hate, you terminate the significance of it and effectively reton it. It's not a strict retcon because you aren't saying that it's no longer canon, but it is effectively one. The Youth still exist, but their impact and role in the story is effectively over and won't be seen or heard from again. When Sanghelios basically turned against Thel because there were Humans on Sanghelios, I'm pretty sure that was KT way of telling people who hold this criticism to "deal with it". They either don't exist, or are utterly impotent. (Which kinda flies in the face of the "growing" descriptor.) Besides, with the caricaturization of Humanity, and the retconning of the Elite's cultural views, Human sympathizers don't even make any sense in the new canon.[/quote]Not sure but a few posts back I said that I thought the majority of Elites should be neutral, not haters... If by "you" you mean me. If you meant "you" in a general sense, then ignore. Alas, only time will really tell. We'll see if Travis decides to explore viewpoints other.

On a side note: Travis did actually say that most of the keeps were neutral, hence the almost defeat of the arbiter... This proves the larger "no-care" group who just follow the elite with the most power.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 It doesn't make sense to us. Therefore we are the adult with a brain that can look back and find facts. [b]We can look back into the "facts" (previous canon)[/b], and we can find that there are some Elites who want peace with the Humans (e.g. Elite Youth), and not simply a cease fire.[/quote] What makes you believe that any of that is still applicable? What if this is just the people at 343i deciding to retcon a piece of the story that they personally do not like? You don't actually have to say things like "All Elites hate Humans" or "That Sangheili Youth fact is no longer canon" in order to retcon it. All you need to do is marginalise it and it will become insignificant, and eventually people will just forget about it. In saying that mostly all of the Elites despise Humanity you are indirectly retconning that youth fact by marginalising it and making it appear to be insignificant and irrelevant, like what that Roberto guy up above tried to do in his post. This is basically what Frankie said. Every fact you decide to draw attention to surrounding the construction of your fictional universe is important. It helps set the scene and give context to what is happening in a story as broad as Halo's. When it was outlined that there were a growing number of Elite youth, I don't think that was supposed to be taken as a little insignificant fact that can be ignored for all intents and purposes going forwards in the story. If it were insignificant then I'm sure it would have been described as such from the get go, like a fringe sect or something. In saying that mostly all of them hate, you terminate the significance of it and effectively reton it. It's not a strict retcon because you aren't saying that it's no longer canon, but it is effectively one. The Youth still exist, but their impact and role in the story is effectively over and won't be seen or heard from again. When Sanghelios basically turned against Thel because there were Humans on Sanghelios, I'm pretty sure that was KT way of telling people who hold this criticism to "deal with it". They either don't exist, or are utterly impotent. (Which kinda flies in the face of the "growing" descriptor.) Besides, with the caricaturization of Humanity, and the retconning of the Elite's cultural views, Human sympathizers don't even make any sense in the new canon.

That is an error on Travis's part, but it doesn't mean that group that wants peace (as opposed to a cease fire) isn't there. If I told a child that America was being a badass and fighting the Germans, Italians, and Japanese all by themselves, they would believe me considering they don't know anything about WW2. If I in no way implied that America had allies, they would imagine that there were NO allies. If I told this to an adult who knew nothing about WW2, they would question the logic behind it. Where were the other countries? What about the rest of Europe? Britian's former colonies? Etc. Of course we all know that America winning the way by themselves is false from history. Karen Travis is the story teller who only tells one side of things, or shows only viewpoint. To gobble up her story as fact for every Elite on Sangheilios is to be the child to believe what they are told. It doesn't make sense to us. Therefore we are the adult with a brain that can look back and find facts. We can look back into the "facts" (previous canon), and we can find that there are some Elites who want peace with the Humans (e.g. Elite Youth), and not simply a cease fire. [Edited on 10.27.2012 2:57 PM PDT]

I have NO problem with opposing viewpoints. However, in glasslands they never once mention the groups wanting peace because they respect humanity. Hell, the one Kaidon who supports Thel does so ONLY because "We don't have the means to completely destroy humanity at the moment. So peace until we get that power back." They don't mention say "Oh, I think we should regroup, then destroy humanity... but Thel has a lot of people on his side who respect humanity and wish for the fighting to not restart." Hell, Jul's WIFE says that. When I first saw her ranting basically about how the elites NEEDED to get back their scientists, their engineers, their farmers... I went "Sweet, a new perspective from the elites!" and then later she literally says the same thing the Kaiden does. "Humanity can't be trusted... we need peace to get back on our feet, then we need to wipe the humans out." It's basically a "We don't like it because it doesn't even imply the other viewpoint is around." Traviss had plenty of chances to show the opposing/non-friendly elite viewpoint, but also show how that clashes AGAINST the friendly elite viewpoints. Have Jul and his wife argue back and forth for a bit about whether it should be a lasting peace, or a peace until the Elite military is back to 100%. Have Jul and some others talking and comment about how "That group of keeps over there" were being stupid and trusting humans not to cause trouble.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa Because Karen Travissty hasn't done any research on the series at all and doesn't understand it. [U]As a whole and speaking in overall terms[/u], the Elites don't hate humans at all, if anything, the worst is that humans aren't a big deal one way or the other. Only the minority want to continue waging war on humanity or oppose the Arbiter, the majority are, as I said human sympathizers (IE like humans and want to be able to work with them), or they're ambivalent towards humans...the majority of that majority are human sympathizers though. And all of the majority, whether a sympathizer or not, view humans as honorable and respect them...humans are one of the only races that Elites consider being nearly equal to themselves. Karen Travis' depiction of them isn't canon.[/quote]But it is. 343 said so. To add onto that, you are commiting the same error she is. You are presenting the Elites as a hive mind with a small minority on the side. Except you reversed the viewpoints. Travis has a VERY small minority that likes humans, and a have a majority that hates them. You have the opposite. I think, in a hypothetically "real" situation, the majority Elites really wouldn't care. There would minority sympathizes and haters. However the majority could care less because they have to rebuild their society. Only the Elites IN the Covenant came to see the admirable qualities of Humans. Elites on the home world probably didn't care at all what happened to them. Domestic problems should be, and would be, their first concern. They have to get their society rebuilt in order to sustain themselves. Foreign problems are another story. Don't forget that the war with the Brutes continues onwards (Halo Evolutions) so that should also be a concern, not starting another war. The Sangheili in the Kilo Five trilogy clearly state that they want peace with the humans ONLY to rebuild their strength. In other words, they only want a cease fire. Regardless the majority of Elites shouldn't be all haters or sympathizers. On top of that, Humanity went ahead and messed up... as usual. ONI is attempting to start a civil war on Sangheilos to keep the Elites in a fractured and weakened state. Not good for diplomatic relations.[/quote] The Elites who respect humans are not necessarily as small as you think. The Kilo-Five trilogy has only ever covered the perspective of 1 Keep, which is the perspective we are unfamiliar with, and so contains the most room for development, which is necessary to explain Storm. Just because we haven't seen them does not mean they do not exist; that's almost like saying the Elites are a hive mind. Nothing 343i has stated contradicts the "growing Elite youth" who respect humanity. Jul just happens to not be one of them. But he also happens to be the leader of Storm, so the story necessarily focuses on him and his perspective to explain to the audience why he is splitting from the Arbiter's truce. In fact, it being a growing Elite [i]youth[/i] only further explains why we don't hear much about them. The Elite elders who still hate humans would not allow such dangerous ideas to spread and gain power. Youth who respect us are useless. We need an elder/Kaidon like Thel to get the ball rolling. And that's another thing: the Arbiter never says that he wants the truce only so they can regain strength. He says that fighting another war, any war, would be suicide at that time. He never says that he wishes to strike back against humanity (as that would imply), but that regaining their strength is necessary from any perspective before they do anything else. Thel seems to legitimately want their conflict with humans to end. That he allowed Infinity to help him stands as proof of that. ^^And yes, it happened in Thursday War, but the Brutes who did it were "loyal" (as loyal as a Brute can be) to the Servants of Abiding Truth. When they detonated bombs and revolted, Telcam was understandably infuriated.[/quote] I think I mentioned in another thread that Travis was only feeding us the viewpoint of a certain group of Elites. You are absolutely right. And I'm glad you're right. If anything it presents the Elites as less of a hive mind, which is what I hate. People always seem to go with the "Halo 3 view" and say a vast majority of Elites like humans. Then they hate Travis because she does the opposite. Honestly what you said makes much more sense than what people think and shows that the Elites truly are divided over this issue.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa Because Karen Travissty hasn't done any research on the series at all and doesn't understand it. [U]As a whole and speaking in overall terms[/u], the Elites don't hate humans at all, if anything, the worst is that humans aren't a big deal one way or the other. Only the minority want to continue waging war on humanity or oppose the Arbiter, the majority are, as I said human sympathizers (IE like humans and want to be able to work with them), or they're ambivalent towards humans...the majority of that majority are human sympathizers though. And all of the majority, whether a sympathizer or not, view humans as honorable and respect them...humans are one of the only races that Elites consider being nearly equal to themselves. Karen Travis' depiction of them isn't canon.[/quote]But it is. 343 said so. To add onto that, you are commiting the same error she is. You are presenting the Elites as a hive mind with a small minority on the side. Except you reversed the viewpoints. Travis has a VERY small minority that likes humans, and a have a majority that hates them. You have the opposite. I think, in a hypothetically "real" situation, the majority Elites really wouldn't care. There would minority sympathizes and haters. However the majority could care less because they have to rebuild their society. Only the Elites IN the Covenant came to see the admirable qualities of Humans. Elites on the home world probably didn't care at all what happened to them. Domestic problems should be, and would be, their first concern. They have to get their society rebuilt in order to sustain themselves. Foreign problems are another story. Don't forget that the war with the Brutes continues onwards (Halo Evolutions) so that should also be a concern, not starting another war. The Sangheili in the Kilo Five trilogy clearly state that they want peace with the humans ONLY to rebuild their strength. In other words, they only want a cease fire. Regardless the majority of Elites shouldn't be all haters or sympathizers. On top of that, Humanity went ahead and messed up... as usual. ONI is attempting to start a civil war on Sangheilos to keep the Elites in a fractured and weakened state. Not good for diplomatic relations.[/quote] The Elites who respect humans are not necessarily as small as you think. The Kilo-Five trilogy has only ever covered the perspective of 1 Keep, which is the perspective we are unfamiliar with, and so contains the most room for development, which is necessary to explain Storm. Just because we haven't seen them does not mean they do not exist; that's almost like saying the Elites are a hive mind. Nothing 343i has stated contradicts the "growing Elite youth" who respect humanity. Jul just happens to not be one of them. But he also happens to be the leader of Storm, so the story necessarily focuses on him and his perspective to explain to the audience why he is splitting from the Arbiter's truce. In fact, it being a growing Elite [i]youth[/i] only further explains why we don't hear much about them. The Elite elders who still hate humans would not allow such dangerous ideas to spread and gain power. Youth who respect us are useless. We need an elder/Kaidon like Thel to get the ball rolling. And that's another thing: the Arbiter never says that he wants the truce only so they can regain strength. He says that fighting another war, any war, would be suicide at that time. He never says that he wishes to strike back against humanity (as that would imply), but that regaining their strength is necessary from any perspective before they do anything else. Thel seems to legitimately want their conflict with humans to end. That he allowed Infinity to help him stands as proof of that. ^^And yes, it happened in Thursday War, but the Brutes who did it were "loyal" (as loyal as a Brute can be) to the Servants of Abiding Truth. When they detonated bombs and revolted, Telcam was understandably infuriated. [Edited on 10.27.2012 10:05 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Spartan-string of numbers... It took twenty five years as I recall, because the prophets purposefully dragged it out. Combined with cole protocol...[/quote]The Prophets dragged it out? I don't remember but a refresher would be nice. As far as I know, the only way they dragged it out was by looking for Forerunner artifacts on human planets or attacking important military bases (I.e. Reach). Other than that they went around glassing planets. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron However, the reasons Elites state for hating humanity are laughable. "We are afraid they will expand and colonize and push against our borders!" Hell, what happened to all the glassed colonies between Elite space and Earth? and "They are all liers!" where the hell did that come from?[/quote]It's still a reason to worry. The Elites are thinking into the FAR future and really don't want that scenario to happen. The Soviet Union and the USA were allies against WW2 Germany. After Germany fell, the Soviet Union and the USA became "enemies". Americans were scared of Communism spreading, much like the Elites are scared of Humanity spreading. The fact that there are so many glassed planets is why the Elites think that humanity will seek revenge. Sure there's "a lot of space" between the two, but back in the Cold War, the USSR and USA had a "lot of space". Nukes could cross the distance easily, but warships in 2552 can cross the space gap as well. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron And Coma said merely what bungie had been directly stating or hinting at around halo 3. There was a large movement of elite youth who respected humanity. Said movement ALSO was growing. Combine that with a number of warriors who at least somewhat respected humanity and fought alongside them on the Ark...[/quote]Well unfortunately we have to go with what 343 has said. Denying Travis's work is like denying that the Earth revolves around the sun. 343, or the scientific community in the sun case, has approved both and should be accepted. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron It's in no way "EVERYBODY" but I'd wager if the majority isn't pro-peace, the majority is "Eh, who cares?" and neutral. Either not respecting humanity, but at the same time not really caring about them and thus not wanting to go to war again.[/quote]That's what I was getting at. They need to worry about themselves first. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron It really strikes home that the Prophets were revealed to be COMPLETE liers, and the bulk of the Elite forces post battle of the Ark = still holding the EXACT same views as before. The views the Prophets ordered them to have basically. [/quote]Same viewpoint, different reason. Before it was a religious crusade, now it's simply, as the Elites say, beating Humanity down before they can seek revenge. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Edit: Oh, and don't forget traviss basically ignored the great schism. The Elites on the homeworld don't seem to give a flying -blam!- that the brutes are doing their gardening and plumbing. The brutes that the Return explicitly states the Elites were in an on-going, dragged out war with due to equipment failures. The elites are -blam!- SHOCKED when the brutes plant a bomb and revolt.[/quote]Did that happen in the Thursday War? I can't remember this in Glasslands, but I could be wrong. Anyways this somewhat irks me about Travis. The Elites shouldn't be shocked, they should have in fact been expecting the worst. However not all Elites are once again a hive mind. The Elites and Brutes that hate each other the most are probably the ones in the Covenant armed forces at the time of the Great Schism. I highly doubt children of both species hate each other. There are even Brutes who stayed loyal to their ship masters. Knowing the Brutes' fragmented nature, I highly doubt ALL of them are at war with the Elites. The Brutes know when to give up, as evidenced by their joining of the Covenant. It is quite possible these are just stubborn packs. Also, the Elites at this time are more concerned with Humanity than with the Brutes. Why? Who knows. Maybe because the Elites think they can win (they beat the Brute fleet at the ark when the odds were against them). The Elites probably think Humanity is a greater challenge because they lasted so long against the Covenant, whatever the reasons may be. They also hold Humanity in higher regard (shown by the positive attitidues of some Elites during the Great War, and the fact that they see them as more of a threat). I don't think all the Elites are fully informed of the beginnings of the Human-Covenant war, or why it lasted so long. They only know the Prophets wanted to keep Humanity's role as the reclaimers secret And no sentient being is capable of NOT being irrational. It is quite likely that there are Elites who HATE humans but don't care about brutes. Much like some humans may HATE blacks but not care about Asians.

Spartan-string of numbers... It took twenty five years as I recall, because the prophets purposefully dragged it out. Combined with cole protocol... However, the reasons Elites state for hating humanity are laughable. "We are afraid they will expand and colonize and push against our borders!" Hell, what happened to all the glassed colonies between Elite space and Earth? and "They are all liers!" where the hell did that come from? And Coma said merely what bungie had been directly stating or hinting at around halo 3. There was a large movement of elite youth who respected humanity. Said movement ALSO was growing. Combine that with a number of warriors who at least somewhat respected humanity and fought alongside them on the Ark... It's in no way "EVERYBODY" but I'd wager if the majority isn't pro-peace, the majority is "Eh, who cares?" and neutral. Either not respecting humanity, but at the same time not really caring about them and thus not wanting to go to war again. It really strikes home that the Prophets were revealed to be COMPLETE liers, and the bulk of the Elite forces post battle of the Ark = still holding the EXACT same views as before. The views the Prophets ordered them to have basically. Edit: Oh, and don't forget traviss basically ignored the great schism. The Elites on the homeworld don't seem to give a flying -blam!- that the brutes are doing their gardening and plumbing. The brutes that the Return explicitly states the Elites were in an on-going, dragged out war with due to equipment failures. The elites are -blam!- SHOCKED when the brutes plant a bomb and revolt. [Edited on 10.27.2012 8:33 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa Because Karen Travissty hasn't done any research on the series at all and doesn't understand it. [U]As a whole and speaking in overall terms[/u], the Elites don't hate humans at all, if anything, the worst is that humans aren't a big deal one way or the other. Only the minority want to continue waging war on humanity or oppose the Arbiter, the majority are, as I said human sympathizers (IE like humans and want to be able to work with them), or they're ambivalent towards humans...the majority of that majority are human sympathizers though. And all of the majority, whether a sympathizer or not, view humans as honorable and respect them...humans are one of the only races that Elites consider being nearly equal to themselves. Karen Travis' depiction of them isn't canon.[/quote]But it is. 343 said so. To add onto that, you are commiting the same error she is. You are presenting the Elites as a hive mind with a small minority on the side. Except you reversed the viewpoints. Travis has a VERY small minority that likes humans, and a have a majority that hates them. You have the opposite. I think, in a hypothetically "real" situation, the majority Elites really wouldn't care. There would minority sympathizes and haters. However the majority could care less because they have to rebuild their society. Only the Elites IN the Covenant came to see the admirable qualities of Humans. Elites on the home world probably didn't care at all what happened to them. Domestic problems should be, and would be, their first concern. They have to get their society rebuilt in order to sustain themselves. Foreign problems are another story. Don't forget that the war with the Brutes continues onwards (Halo Evolutions) so that should also be a concern, not starting another war. The Sangheili in the Kilo Five trilogy clearly state that they want peace with the humans ONLY to rebuild their strength. In other words, they only want a cease fire. Regardless the majority of Elites shouldn't be all haters or sympathizers. On top of that, Humanity went ahead and messed up... as usual. ONI is attempting to start a civil war on Sangheilos to keep the Elites in a fractured and weakened state. Not good for diplomatic relations.

Because this isn't Star Wars, realistically there are outliers within all aspects of the Covenant that still despise Humanity and still believe the Covenant religion.

Because Karen Travissty hasn't done any research on the series at all and doesn't understand it. As a whole and speaking in overall terms, the Elites don't hate humans at all, if anything, the worst is that humans aren't a big deal one way or the other. Only the minority want to continue waging war on humanity or oppose the Arbiter, the majority are, as I said human sympathizers (IE like humans and want to be able to work with them), or they're ambivalent towards humans...the majority of that majority are human sympathizers though. And all of the majority, whether a sympathizer or not, view humans as honorable and respect them...humans are one of the only races that Elites consider being nearly equal to themselves. Karen Travis' depiction of them isn't canon.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] And Im Here Too [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 They are scared of the threat Humanity poses. Yes, they see as a threat. Think about it... It took TWENTY-FIVE long years to reach the Human home world, twenty five years. I don't think any other species has given the Covenant quite a fight. Even then, they couldn't be brought down. Humanity is on it's knees, and the Sangheili fear what they will do when they are back up to strength. They fear that Humanity will seek vengeance. Which is perfectly understandable. However what is not is that so far, it seems every Elite BUT Thel Vadam wants Humanity dead. There should be at least some more Elites on Thel's side. A minority greater than one.[/quote] The Cole Protocol is the only reason the UNSC lasted more than a week against the Covenant. Without that factor, the Covenant would have steamrolled their way over to Earth and butchered everybody.[/quote]Regardless, no other species the Covenant faced managed to last that long. And it's perfectably reasonable that they are concerned about Humanity seeking revenge.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 They are scared of the threat Humanity poses. Yes, they see as a threat. Think about it... It took TWENTY-FIVE long years to reach the Human home world, twenty five years. I don't think any other species has given the Covenant quite a fight. Even then, they couldn't be brought down. Humanity is on it's knees, and the Sangheili fear what they will do when they are back up to strength. They fear that Humanity will seek vengeance. Which is perfectly understandable. However what is not is that so far, it seems every Elite BUT Thel Vadam wants Humanity dead. There should be at least some more Elites on Thel's side. A minority greater than one.[/quote] The Cole Protocol is the only reason the UNSC lasted more than a week against the Covenant. Without that factor, the Covenant would have steamrolled their way over to Earth and butchered everybody.

They are scared of the threat Humanity poses. Yes, they see as a threat. Think about it... It took TWENTY-FIVE long years to reach the Human home world, twenty five years. I don't think any other species has given the Covenant quite a fight. Even then, they couldn't be brought down. Humanity is on it's knees, and the Sangheili fear what they will do when they are back up to strength. They fear that Humanity will seek vengeance. Which is perfectly understandable. However what is not is that so far, it seems every Elite BUT Thel Vadam wants Humanity dead. There should be at least some more Elites on Thel's side. A minority greater than one.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ShortRoundMcfly Because the Halo stories that were produced after Bungie left are garbage.[/quote] Imma let you finish but Cryptum and Primodium are the best Halo books of all time....

What does the op say?

Why *are there sangheili that *want to kill humans.