Hmmm. Not to be a pest, but I was told that this would be made back into a sticky. It isn't. Just my prodding, [b]Poocho[/b] :)

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Apollo1975 No offense taken Poocho... this is what a forum is for. Thanks for taking the time to respond so eloquently ;)[/quote] Sure, I know that, but many forum-goers don't. I'd rather go a little out of my way to express my lack of hostility than have some inexperienced forum member be offended. [quote]I think I understand what you're saying in your convention example and it's absolutely valid - individuality is the soul of the 7C - but I have to disagree with your analogies of [b]convention = chapter[/b] and [b]booths = databases/forums/etc.[/b]. As I see it, a convention is a gathering of people who share the same interest (i.e. Star Trek), and each exhibitor sets up his/her booth because he/she feels they have something unique to offer those attending the convention. So for my purposes, I'll say [color=green][b]convention = 7th Column[/b][/color] and [color=green][b]booths = chapters[/b][/color]. With that in mind...[/quote] *sigh* If you have to get that picky, fine. It served my purposes, so I guess it can serve yours. Well, we'll see... ;) [quote]You and your friends hear about a convention and you all agree to meet there when it opens. Everyone is excited because this convention is about something they really enjoy and know a lot about. In fact, you decide that you would like to set up your own booth at the convention so you can share you enjoyment and knowledge with others. This will be even better because now you and your friends will be able to hang out at your booth and talk to eachother. The big day finally arrives and you're setting up your booth at the convention and watching for your friends arrival (you've worked hard preparing your booth and you can't wait for them to see it). As you see one of your friends approaching, you notice that he has brought stuff for a booth of his own that he starts setting up a few spaces over. The same thing happens for each of your other friends. "No problem." you say to each other, "We'll visit eachother during the convention." But each of you is so busy putting finishing touches on his booth and waiting for visitors that you just can't find the time. About an hour goes by, and you wonder why nobody has come over to see you even though you have a great booth. Looking around, you realize that everyone at the convention has a booth of their own, and that they're all so busy tweeking things and waiting for visitors that they're not going to visit anyone else. [i]** Insert music from Twilight Zone here **[/i][/quote] Good points. However IMO, your analogy needs a bit of tweaking. Remember your idea was that chapters would be limited to one per state/province. If that is the case, then we need to first bump up the attendance of this convention to over 10,000 (the number of members in the 7th Column. I don't know how many states/provinces are currently represented by 7th Column members (let's say there's about 75), but if every one of them has one chapter, then the average attendance for each booth/chapter would be about 133. So you're gonna have each table (granted, you might be able to increase the size of the table a bit, but you can only go so far) surrounded by 133 people all milling about. Now, you and your friends show up at your state's booth in a crowd of strangers. Let's say the same conversation as what I first mentioned takes place ("This is fun...let's start our own booth just for us..." "You can't because... But that guy over there is gonna...so you can go to his... But no, sorry, you can't....Tough luck"). You still have the problem of not being able to do anything special with your friends because you only show up here once every couple of weeks. Sure, you can go to the other guy's new booth, but you and your friends will still have to be surrounded by, let's say, 30 other strangers when all you really want to do is have your own private booth where you and your friends get to be [b]behind[/b] the table for a change. I realize that my portrayal of things is the ideal actions of members and that in actuallity many members simply set up new booths only to abandon them after a short time of waiting. But this can be fixed. Read on... [quote]I suppose my initial post was more of a "thinking-out-loud" thing than an actual suggestion (yes, I'm back-pedaling a little) - because disbanding active chapters is pretty much contrary to what the 7th Column is about. I hope I didn't cheese off any senior members with that suggestion. I'm all for individuality and freedom of expression in the 7C, but I don't think it should come at the cost of the community it is intended to nurture. Maybe it would be enough to do something like limit each member to founding only one chapter ( I have 2 and I'm embarrassed to say neither one is doing well - but I'm working on that), or having prospective founders "apprentice" with a learned elder for a while before being given a chapter. I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, but it seems to me that something needs to be done about [b]excessively[/b] fragmented membership if the 7th Column is to realize its full potential. [/quote] I agree at least with the first part. Individuallity is good, but you're definitely right in saying that it shouldn't hurt the 7C. So, I think we both agree that we need [b]balance[/b]. We need to find a happy medium between a 7C filled to the brim with thousands of empty chapter and a 7C with only a few big chapters. I think that we need to take a closer look at the option of disbanning. IMO, ambitious members should be able to create a new chapter whenever they want. Everyone should have a chance to set up their own booth. [i]However[/i], it should be clearly stated during the chapter creation process that if there ever occurs a period of complete inactivity in the chapter for 6 months straight, the chapter will be automatically disbanned. This should be a separate step in the process, and it should have it's own "I Agree" checkbox to make sure the new founder doesn't just skip over it. It should be separate from the Terms of Use statement because, honestly, who really reads that any way? [I'm not saying that it isn't important, but the ToU basically tells everyone to 'Be Nice.' Most know this, and they don't bother to read through 20 pages of cryptic rules and regulations and legal mumbo jumbo.] I think this policy should be just the right balance between harshness and leniency. I'd give 6 months because I know that sometimes things come up that prevent a person/people from being active. They should have a good-sized cushion. But I don't think it's too harsh, because all a person has to do to keep their chapter (for which they may have plans in the future) alive is to log on once and post a quick news item or forum entry. And yes, I think forum activity should be considered chapter activity, even if it wouldn't be considered by the Active-o-Meter. Furthermore, I think, as a professional courtesy, a warning email should be sent to the founder and staff members of the chapters after 5 months have elapsed. That shouldn't be too much trouble to do, and it may just remind those people of what they've forgotten about. This should work! As for the apprenticeship idea, that doesn't sound too bad! However, I would suggest that it be implemented as an option, rather than a requirement. If a founder knows they know what they're doing, they should be allowed to jump right in to creating a chapter. But if he/she feels it would help them, then they could opt to join the apprenticeship program. Also, there's the fact that each founder has his/her own style. One may love news, one my be highly involved in forums, one may scoff all options but events, and one may preach the saving power of databases! New founders should be allowed to develop their own style. So, really, what could these experienced founders/mentors do but keep saying "Stay active, in whatever way you want"? The idea could work, but it would need some tweaking. Once again, these are just my opinions. Feel free to disagree (but keep in mind that I don't like to "lose" ;) ). Just my thoughts, [b]Poocho[/b] :)

No offense taken Poocho... this is what a forum is for. Thanks for taking the time to respond so eloquently ;) I think I understand what you're saying in your convention example and it's absolutely valid - individuality is the soul of the 7C - but I have to disagree with your analogies of [b]convention = chapter[/b] and [b]booths = databases/forums/etc.[/b]. As I see it, a convention is a gathering of people who share the same interest (i.e. Star Trek), and each exhibitor sets up his/her booth because he/she feels they have something unique to offer those attending the convention. So for my purposes, I'll say [color=green][b]convention = 7th Column[/b][/color] and [color=green][b]booths = chapters[/b][/color]. With that in mind... You and your friends hear about a convention and you all agree to meet there when it opens. Everyone is excited because this convention is about something they really enjoy and know a lot about. In fact, you decide that you would like to set up your own booth at the convention so you can share you enjoyment and knowledge with others. This will be even better because now you and your friends will be able to hang out at your booth and talk to eachother. The big day finally arrives and you're setting up your booth at the convention and watching for your friends arrival (you've worked hard preparing your booth and you can't wait for them to see it). As you see one of your friends approaching, you notice that he has brought stuff for a booth of his own that he starts setting up a few spaces over. The same thing happens for each of your other friends. "No problem." you say to each other, "We'll visit eachother during the convention." But each of you is so busy putting finishing touches on his booth and waiting for visitors that you just can't find the time. About an hour goes by, and you wonder why nobody has come over to see you even though you have a great booth. Looking around, you realize that everyone at the convention has a booth of their own, and that they're all so busy tweeking things and waiting for visitors that they're not going to visit anyone else. [i]** Insert music from Twilight Zone here **[/i] I suppose my initial post was more of a "thinking-out-loud" thing than an actual suggestion (yes, I'm back-pedaling a little) - because disbanding active chapters is pretty much contrary to what the 7th Column is about. I hope I didn't cheese off any senior members with that suggestion. I'm all for individuality and freedom of expression in the 7C, but I don't think it should come at the cost of the community it is intended to nurture. Maybe it would be enough to do something like limit each member to founding only one chapter ( I have 2 and I'm embarrassed to say neither one is doing well - but I'm working on that), or having prospective founders "apprentice" with a learned elder for a while before being given a chapter. I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, but it seems to me that something needs to be done about [b]excessively[/b] fragmented membership if the 7th Column is to realize its full potential.

No. Absolutely not. I'm totally against this. It is my strong opinion that this is a bad idea. [Note that I'm not attacking you, [b]Apollo[/b]; I'm just expressing my strong, heartfelt opinion. Read on...] The thing is, many of us like to have our own intimate chapters. I have a feeling I'd all but leave the Column if I couldn't have my chapter for my friends. Sure it's nice to communicate with other anonymous Halo fans from time to time, but the true joy for me comes from having a chapter just for me and my real-life friends where we don't have to worry about other people interfering in our stuff and generally getting in the way. I like having my OWN chapter. And I think that many others here will agree. After all, the purpose of the 7th Column is for people to join chapters where they can interact with other Halo fans [i]of their choice[/i]. I like the look and feel of my chapter, and I love the intimate connection I have with every database and event and news article and poll. Even when the entries aren't my own, I can put a smiling face to every screen name on there. I can remember fun times I've had with them, both in Halo and otherwise. Those are my friends. Now imagine an illustration of your suggestion: Let's say that a large convention hall is created in your state to be open 24/7 for all Halo fans in [insert yoru state/province here]. It's filled with booths and activities for all to enjoy. Everyone seems to be having a good time, smiling faces are everywhere. And everyone's wearing a nametag. A bunch of the people there you know just by reputation, since they seem to be there all the time and they like to man many of the booths. However, only about 5% of the people there you would consider close friends with whom you do stuff outside the convention. You and your friends have a busy schedule, so you aren't able to make it as often as many others. When you are there, sure you talk to many of the fans there, but you end up congregating with your own relatively small group of close friends for most of the time. You begin to talk about how much fun your having and how you'd like to do this sort of thing together every now and then, but you'd only want your close friends to come and you'd have your own activities and booths and decorations. But someone overhears you talking, and they comment that Y'ou aren't allowed to do this.' When you protest, they say that 'Since you don't come here very often and you don't operate your own booth and you don't organize your own activities, you can't start your own mini-convention. But you're more than welcome to going to the mini-convention that's going to be started by so-and-so over there who is always here and always operates a number of booths and always gets involved in a number of activities, and you can bring your friends with you if you want. But, no, you can't start your own mini-convention because you don't do enough here. You and your friends will just have to keep going to our conventions if you want to enjoy any Halo activities. Sorry, but rules are rules.' See my point? The convention would be like the designated state/province chapter, the booths/activities would be like the databases/events/news/polls/etc., the guys who always show up at the convention would be the active members of the chapter, and so-and-so who's gonna start his own mini-convention (chapter) is one of the more active members of the chapter. I think you should get it. I probably said way more than I needed to to get my point across, but I just feel so strongly about it that I had to make sure. Just my thoughts, [b]Poocho[/b] :) P.S. Btw, [b]Appollo[/b], I respect your opinion; I just disagree. Please don't take anything above as offensive or insulting. :)

If I could add one thing to the great deal of thoughtful ideas brought forward, I think one of the biggest problems with the 7th Column is fragmentation of the membership. You may have a number of chapters in a given area (say a city), but only a small percentage of those chapters are active and a smaller number of frustrated members are keeping them active. Imagine what would happen if you could combine the active members of 10 mediocre chapters into one - you'd have a very active group. I would be willing to sacrifice my chapter (not that that's a huge number or anything) for the good of the community and to be part of something better. As I see it, part of the role of an SCC would be to help ensure the vitality of the Column by limiting the number of chapters (I know this sounds fascist but bear with me). For example: [*]a basic structure is set up, say a chapter for each state/province. [*]once the membership of one of those chapters reaches a certain point (i.e. # of members combined with level of activity) a spinoff chapter could be created based on a population centre or some other criteria. [*]the leadership of the spinoff chapter would be chosen from the parent chapter based on their level of activity - NOT popularity (this is an excellent point that has been made many tmies). [*]the spinoff chapter would be subject to the authority of the state/province chapter. [*]etc., etc., etc. It's not too terribly complicated except for the fact that it would mean thinning out the existing herd - an idea that would probably go over about as well as a prostate exam from Captain Hook (maybe exceptions could be made based on (again) # of members and activity). If we truly want to help Bungie realize its mission of world domination, however, I think we have to start thinking globally. And that's my 2 cents.

My chapter was the best chapter in NY by... I guess you could say default. We were the only chapter he put up, we had no competition. I searched for all chapter on Long island (A certain Part of NY) yesterday and found many. ALOT. Of all of them, only 4 had a news post in the last 2 months, 3 of them in the last month. 2 of those 3 chapters are founded by myself. Its sad knowing 2/3 of the active chapters in my area are run by me. I guess its good that I keep them active but still. Most were still no passports and a lot hadn't had a post in over 6 months.

This reminded me of something I thought the Council could do. Do you remember how a couple of years ago Emildlux (good ol' Emil, I miss him) created a database called "50 States, 50 Chapters"? In it he listed the best chapter out of every state, based on a number of parameters. Some states without any notable chapters had only a blank entry. I think the Council could do this. They could maintain a similar database listing the best chapter from each state or territory or country, depending on the circumstances. Perhaps a few members could each be assigned a territory (i.e. one would get Eastern US, another--Western US, another--Hawaii, Alaska, and other countries) that they would regularly go through to judge all the chapters. [on a side note, while doing this they could make a list of all chapters that should be disbanded due to complete inactivity for a good length of time] This could help chapters to have a reason to improve themselves, and it'll give everyone good examples of what we're striving for here at the 7C. As long as this is done in a fair way (for example, by ignoring the number of members), it could do great things for the Column. What are your thoughts on this? Perhaps I should start a new thread? Just my thoughts, [b]Poocho[/b] :)

Having State Reps is going way too political. Just a group sounds much better to me.

I think each state or province should have a representitive in the seventh column who can orginse tourements and stuff anywho Im looking for an southern ontario chapter for when halo 2 come out [Edited on 5/24/2004 1:46:08 PM]

Well we could have a communist-like council, where there are many heads whom decide what the community needs/wants, etc (of course after open forums or the like). But this is really the only simplistic answer I can think of to this, outside just nominating one person to make all the decisions.

I was gonna reply to these posts here, but I decided to make a [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=83601]new thread[/url]. Give me some feedback! I think this idea could change the community here at the 7thC!

Another thing is that there are so many new people, myself included, that you get poeple posting things that were meant for the underground. If we functioned like a real community this would be less likely.

I have just recently joined but I have some ideas. I agree that we should have a council, but I also think the regular members of the 7th column should help. The council should be there to arrange things and listen to ideas and make those ideas possible. They should coordinate everything. We shouldn't have elections, but someone who would volunteer their time should be some type of president. I think once we have the council going we should always have a Council thread in which people discuss thing related to advancing the Seventh Column and things that Councilers could organize. We could even have a lessar Council in charge of observing this thread and making suggestions to the Council. Well those are my ideas, but i'm sorta a nOOb so if you ignore them thats fine.

Which is why so many people want to get their own chapters..which is really stupid going that far out on a limb just to get away from the mods.

Don't Moderators have authorty to lock them out to stop such well fits? That should help keep order on the forums.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] KIAGrunt On the issue of Chapter Wars...About a year back( I dont know if some of you may remember) I created a chapter called 'Alliance Peacekeepers' The whole idea was to keep peace in the 7th column. I had some prominant members and we prevented several chapter wars, it had an effective alert system, and good sentry's throughout the 7th column. It was very cool but after about 4 months I disbanded it due to inactivity( we had stopped many chapter wars and there was too much peace :) I had my own defense corps as well in case of war waged on [i] us. [/i] I was very suprised on how sucessful I was. All I needed was support for it to be sucessful. If you guys would like this kind of thing up again, I will volunteer to lead a 'peacekeeping corps' if needed.[/quote] What are Chapter wars? If it is nothing more than chapter rivalry on lan parties or onlines games then I don't see a problem. Good competion and motivation to play better is good for MP games. But what has gone on that made this so bad?

I am like about half an hour to an hour away from the city. Depends on traffic. Wouldn't be that far away for me. The problem is the drivers license in NY is now like 18 so I wont be driving for 3 years. Now to trick my parents/brother into driving me... :P I COULD, in theory, ride my bike or something. For about 7 hours. :? -EDIT- Ah, is it a sticky or is it not a sticky?!? Make up your minds! :P [Edited on 5/19/2004 9:37:02 PM]

And I don't think bungie has that much money to blow on it...LoL...unless microsoft is like "Ah what the heck, lets give em 100k for the heck of it..." That would be so awsome!!

I'd fly. ;) Heh, but that would be totally cool. Cept we'd have to rent out like Yankee Stadium for that big of an event...