I want [b][i]ALL[/b][/i] the armour.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] P3P5I What in the world is Halo becoming.[/quote] TRIBES Transformers: War for Cybertron Battlefield Call of Duty Shadowrun Take your pick.

What in the world is Halo becoming.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Methew [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Yet players who have not progressed can get the same reward. So again, why is there a progress system if players do not need to progress to get the same rewards?[/quote] It's that sense of satisfaction. It's the medal after finishing the race. Sure anyone can go buy it but it's that sense of personal satisfaction that can't be bought. Also, players who haven't progressed don't get the same rewards as players who have. Players who haven't progressed are stuck with the prebuilt Loadouts that 343 made. Unlocking the weapons/perks allows you to build your own custom creations.[/quote] Satisfaction means nothing when the person who hasn't unlocked it can still use it against you. Feeling all warm and fuzzy doesn't stop the upgraded bullets that weren't actually earned from hitting me. It's not about "satisfaction," it's about logical balance. You didn't unlock it. I did. You should not be able to use it off spawn in the same way I can. Why? Because I unlocked it. You didn't. That doesn't matter that they can't customize the Loadout, that's not the point. Customization, Methew, is not the point. The point is that, off spawn, if the default Loadout includes a Level 3 weapon, and you're only Level 1, you should not be able to use said Level 3 weapon... because you aren't Level 3. That's not fair to the people who have actually obtained Level 3.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Methew [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Yet players who have not progressed can get the same reward. So again, why is there a progress system if players do not need to progress to get the same rewards?[/quote] It's that sense of satisfaction. It's the medal after finishing the race. Sure anyone can go buy it but it's that sense of personal satisfaction that can't be bought. Also, players who haven't progressed don't get the same rewards as players who have. Players who haven't progressed are stuck with the prebuilt Loadouts that 343 made. Unlocking the weapons/perks allows you to build your own custom creations.[/quote] Last time I heard, 343 said the 'Better you played it, the more you progress into the game.'

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Yet players who have not progressed can get the same reward. So again, why is there a progress system if players do not need to progress to get the same rewards?[/quote] It's that sense of satisfaction. It's the medal after finishing the race. Sure anyone can go buy it but it's that sense of personal satisfaction that can't be bought. Also, players who haven't progressed don't get the same rewards as players who have. Players who haven't progressed are stuck with the prebuilt Loadouts that 343 made. Unlocking the weapons/perks allows you to build your own custom creations.

My thoughts from a thread I made a while back. [quote]So it seems that many of you are worried about the gameplay changes in Halo 4. That is fine, I'm worried myself. However I am far more worried about the progression and unlock system that that game will have. We should all know by now that Halo 4 is going to use the same kind of ranking system that every game using nowadays. This is going to hurt the game. Despite how good gameplay can possibly be the progression system alone can ruin what made Halo 2 and Halo 3 so special. Even if reach's gameplay was 100% like Halo 3's the ranking system would still make it feel very different and had negative impacts on the game. So what did Reach's ranking system do? Well their leveling system was based solely on gaining credits/exp just like any other FPS game nowadays. The only motive to play the game was to unlock your armor which was a grind. The ranking system was designed to take up to a year to get to the max rank at 60K credits/day. The game just became about grinding credits to rank up and then grinding more credits to buy the armor your want. That is all people wanted to do so they could have a bad-ass looking spartan, but what many of them also did was grind the fun out of the game. After they got their armor it didn't really seem as great as they thought so they just stopped playing and went on to a different game. So what did Halo 3's ranking system do? It was based on skill. If you couldn't get to a 45 (like me) you couldn't get to a Brigadier. Simple as that. Yet, no one had a problem with this. It matched people with your skill whether you were a veteran or just started so it was fun and you didn't have to worry about having to constantly play multiplayer to unlock crap. The system also gave you an actual sense of accomplishment rather than a false sense. If you finally hit that 45 and leveled up it mattered more. You actually felt like you accomplished something, you knew you got better and that you earned it. You played ranked to get better and to be competitive. You weren't grinding to get your level just so you can get armor Where as any other game such as CoD, Battlefield, Reach, etc. that is all it is about and you never have that feeling a feeling of accomplishing something. It wasn't a perfect system but it was perfect for Halo. So what effects did these 2 very different ranking systems have on Halo. Two words. Custom games! They thrived in Halo 3 because again it wasn't about having to constantly unlock crap if you couldn't get a higher skill level you couldn't level up nor did you have to worry about unlocking something that was ranked based so you played custom games. They died in Halo Reach. It killed custom games. How? The same reason no one plays private matches in CoD. They same reason private matches aren't even in Battlefield. It isn't rewarding. This system spoils players so if they aren't doing something to get exp/credits to get their unlocks then it isn't worth doing. If I would try to get a custom zombie game going players would respond with, "No have to get 30k more credits today." or something along those lines. I had 5,000 custom games alone in Halo 3, I had maybe a couple hundred in Reach. Imagine if Halo 3 required you to level up to get armor. It would of kill it like reach did because players would try to grind for it. Then once they got it or give up they would of went to play CoD 4 because it was much easier to unlock things and far less frustrating. 343i doesn't realize that other than gameplay Halo 3's ranking system is also what made custom games so popular which contributed to it's 2 year reign as the most played game on XBL. Today the FPS genre is plagued with the same progression system. Developers do this because they think it will give players a reason to keep playing their game for months or years to come if they keep having -blam!- to unlock through matchmaking. It has been popularized which is why Bungie used it with Reach and why 343i is using it. They are trying to appeal to the masses to get people to play their game. Deep down they and Microsoft want Halo to be the most played game on XBL again and they think this is the way to do it. They are wrong! The FPS genre are becoming games about the more you can unlock rather the more you can do. This is a tired and overused formula. There is a reason Halo 3 was the top played game on XBL, beating out CoD 4 and WaW put together for 2 years. Why? Because it was different and wasn't all about worrying about unlocking -blam!-. When it comes to longevity, the more you can do > The more you can unlock.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Harvard Graduate [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Methew [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Why does the first person have to spend three days unlocking it in the first place?[/quote] Like I said last page: It's a reward for progressing.[/quote] Yet players who have not progressed can get the same reward. So again, why is there a progress system if players do not need to progress to get the same rewards?[/quote] What about you want to use a particular weapon off spawn such as the DMR, and it is not given to you as a pre-set loadout. Let's say you want to use the hardlight shield with the battle rifle, but it is not given as a pre-set loadout? That is the point of the progression system, and that is the reward of unlocking abilities and weapons to play exactly how you want for each map. [/quote] Yes, [i]that[/i] is the point of a progress system. If, for example the default Loadouts do not include the gun you want to you that you have unlocked, you can exchange your gun for the default Loadout one. Or, as you said, switch the gun that comes with the Armor Ability you want to use. You, like the rest, are still not getting the point I am making. The point is: Why, if I have no unlocked the DMR, can I still use the DMOR off spawn? Why is there progress when progress is not needed? Being able to switch weapons to customize your Loadout is fine and dandy. Being able to use something off spawn that you have not unlocked, however, is not.

Weapon Set-up is only available in Spartan Ops, Not Multiplayer.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ChemicalEnvy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A Needler Rifle Nice, another ranking system that to takes no skill to advance in. Keep catering to the retards 34derp. [/quote] Actually, the better you play, the faster you rank up through the progression. [/quote]so no more 10,000 credit for jack pot, 2,000 for completeing the game and 200 credits for going 25-0 and winning?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Methew [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Why does the first person have to spend three days unlocking it in the first place?[/quote] Like I said last page: It's a reward for progressing.[/quote] Yet players who have not progressed can get the same reward. So again, why is there a progress system if players do not need to progress to get the same rewards?[/quote] What about you want to use a particular weapon off spawn such as the DMR, and it is not given to you as a pre-set loadout. Let's say you want to use the hardlight shield with the battle rifle, but it is not given as a pre-set loadout? That is the point of the progression system, and that is the reward of unlocking abilities and weapons to play exactly how you want for each map.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Methew [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Why does the first person have to spend three days unlocking it in the first place?[/quote] Like I said last page: It's a reward for progressing.[/quote] Yet players who have not progressed can get the same reward. So again, why is there a progress system if players do not need to progress to get the same rewards?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Why is there a progress system if progress isn't needed to access items that require progress to unlock?[/quote] To create your own custom loadout. Also, the reason why 343 creates pre-set loadouts are to balance the game, and it works. [/quote] For the love of God how do you still not grasp what I am asking? Player A earned their gear. Player B didn't but can still use the same gear. There's is no point to having a progress system if progress isn't needed to use what is offered. In Battlefield 3, I cannot use the .50 Cal Sniper, [i]off spawn[/i], if I have not unlocked it. However I can use it if I pick it off of someone's dead body. In Halo 4, I can use the X. [i]off spawn[/i] whether I have unlocked it or not as long as it's in a default Loadout. Jesus, do I have to come up with some sort of food or school grades analogy for you to understand this simple concept?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Why does the first person have to spend three days unlocking it in the first place?[/quote] Like I said last page: It's a reward for progressing.

This sounds pretty cool. If pulled off right, the system can be really fun and balanced.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] POKEY CLYDE Can I master all the things I want? Can I re-enlist over and over? Say I want to mix and match things, I am close quarters but also enjoy long range combat from time to time. I think that a "armor mod" that I would get from the sniper specialist would work perfectly with my close quarters playstyle... What do I have to do?[/quote] Yeah, you can re-enlist into multiple branches one you finish the initial progression and your current specialist branch.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s Strafe? Who's talking about strafe? Can I remind you that CoD, a game where the perks are anything but minor, allows you to choose a perk that lets you sprint infinitely? And if you're shot while sprinting you slow down too, and yet the perk is still on par with the others. Can I ask how it can be that we are using the same perk with the same traits, but we're are some how trying to say its not nearly as powerful?[/quote] I meant sprint[/quote] Thats cool.

Can I master all the things I want? Can I re-enlist over and over? Say I want to mix and match things, I am close quarters but also enjoy long range combat from time to time. I think that a "armor mod" that I would get from the sniper specialist would work perfectly with my close quarters playstyle... What do I have to do?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s try playing some reach haemorrhage and say that again. vehicles can be destroyed fairly quickly, especially since they confirmed they don't regenerate health.[/quote] Unlimited Sprint (I played with it), is not that powerful as you think. First, you slow down dramatically when you get shot, and second if someone was in front of you, he will get that first shot [/quote] Stop running into bullets, stick to where its safe. I do this when I play, but even then my sprint meter runs dry.[/quote] Then what is the point of having unlimited strafe if you are just going to patrol an area?[/quote] Strafe? Who's talking about strafe? Can I remind you that CoD, a game where the perks are anything but minor, allows you to choose a perk that lets you sprint infinitely? And if you're shot while sprinting you slow down too, and yet the perk is still on par with the others. Can I ask how it can be that we are using the same perk with the same traits, but we're are some how trying to say its not nearly as powerful?[/quote] I meant sprint

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric Why is there a progress system if progress isn't needed to access items that require progress to unlock?[/quote] To create your own custom loadout. Also, the reason why 343 creates pre-set loadouts are to balance the game, and it works.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s try playing some reach haemorrhage and say that again. vehicles can be destroyed fairly quickly, especially since they confirmed they don't regenerate health.[/quote] Unlimited Sprint (I played with it), is not that powerful as you think. First, you slow down dramatically when you get shot, and second if someone was in front of you, he will get that first shot [/quote] Stop running into bullets, stick to where its safe. I do this when I play, but even then my sprint meter runs dry.[/quote] Then what is the point of having unlimited strafe if you are just going to patrol an area?[/quote] Strafe? Who's talking about strafe? Can I remind you that CoD, a game where the perks are anything but minor, allows you to choose a perk that lets you sprint infinitely? And if you're shot while sprinting you slow down too, and yet the perk is still on par with the others. Can I ask how it can be that we are using the same perk with the same traits, but we're are some how trying to say its not nearly as powerful?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG Well, I don't know about you, but I like the idea. And no, I am not going to defeat your point because there is no where to defeat your view of things[/quote] No where to defeat it... except, y'know, logically. But who wants to confuse logic with Halo 4 and video gamers, right? Let me spell out the core point to you: Why is there a progress system if progress isn't needed to access items that require progress to unlock? This isn't League of Legends where free Champions rotate every week or where your progress through the ranking/level system don't have any bearing on what Champions you can unlock. This is a case of what's the point of someone spending three days to unlock X item if someone can log in for the first time ever and still access X item off spawn? Why does the first person have to spend three days unlocking it in the first place?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s try playing some reach haemorrhage and say that again. vehicles can be destroyed fairly quickly, especially since they confirmed they don't regenerate health.[/quote] Unlimited Sprint (I played with it), is not that powerful as you think. First, you slow down dramatically when you get shot, and second if someone was in front of you, he will get that first shot [/quote] Stop running into bullets, stick to where its safe. I do this when I play, but even then my sprint meter runs dry.[/quote] Then what is the point of having unlimited strafe if you are just going to patrol an area?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] rejected1s try playing some reach haemorrhage and say that again. vehicles can be destroyed fairly quickly, especially since they confirmed they don't regenerate health.[/quote] Unlimited Sprint (I played with it), is not that powerful as you think. First, you slow down dramatically when you get shot, and second if someone was in front of you, he will get that first shot [/quote] Stop running into bullets, stick to where its safe. I do this when I play, but even then my sprint meter runs dry.

Sales mean nothing FatM, mainly because -Reach did not have the Chief -Reach did not get as much hype as Halo 3 -Reach was not the end of a extremely popular FPS trilogy None of which are multiplayer related, but to do with a variety of other factors. Not to mention the fact that COD was ruling by then already.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Future of MLG [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darkside Eric [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Effective Strafe Once again, so you can have your own damn permutation [/quote] Once again, because I [b]didn't unlock[/b] the damn Promethean Vision Armor Ability that I am currently using because it was available as part of the default Loadout. Progression system. Gear requires progress to unlock. Yet players get access to it without the required progression. So. What's the point of a progression system if I can use something that needs to be unlocked without unlocking it?[/quote] What's wrong with it? Like you said, earlier in your post, it's not CoD, and Halo can do whatever they want in their progression system. I love this idea because new players aren't being completely dominated by other players. And second, abilities and guns are unlocked fairly quickly when talking to 343[/quote] I love how you're not actually defeating the point I'm making. And where did I ever say it's not CoD? o.O[/quote] Well, I don't know about you, but I like the idea. And no, I am not going to defeat your point because there is no where to defeat your view of things. The reason I like it is that it really balances the game [Edited on 07.16.2012 10:38 PM PDT]