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7/8/2012 8:18:53 AM
56
Why Elites look weak and lack the "Powerful honor" look in Halo 4
After looking over the renders of the elites on the Halo 4 website, http://halo.xbox.com/halo4#!images/screenshots/ce74650a-bfc6-4126-a02d-d7db778eff25 It shows a few screenshots of the new elite models. Many people were upset because their arms are skinny and lacking armor, they looked too hunched and lacked honor amoungst other reasons. I believe they did this because it is likely the covenant you will be fighting in Halo 4 are "rouge" groups of covenant alien races, and not an official military force, and made elites the way they look to show how these elite lack honor, strength, and the Zelot feel of the Sanghelii. Any comments or thoughts?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Have they actually bothered to explain why they are physically changing the body of grunts into something completely different from all other games?[/quote]I don't think they have. But it'd appear they're doing it so fans can get used to change. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sandtrap I was not aware they explained why grunts were so different. And as for the banshee, I don't like it because it looks like the reach Banshee. The Reach Banshee, is an abomination gameplay wise and looks wise.[/quote]Read about it [url=http://halo.xbox.com/blogs/Headlines/post/2012/05/09/The-Halo-Bulletin-5912.aspx]here[/url]. Neither do I. Agreed. -I liked how the green was more visible on the H3 Banshee. -I liked how the H2 Banshee didn't move so freaking fast that I have to flip a hundred times -I liked how the H1 Banshee had sparks and smoke effects and made that wailing noise -I liked how both H1 and ODST Banshees had hover, except the ODST Banshee was better since it could lean to the side -I liked how the H1 Banshee AI was so aggressive compared to the moderately tame yet deadly Banshees in successors -I liked how H1 Banshee dogfights could be so epic compared to Reach Banshee dogfights [Edited on 07.11.2012 12:13 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sandtrap What if you folks all missed a small detail? What if their armour looks the way it does because the Elites are reverting back to what they were pre-Covenant? After all, certain armours were not allowed to be used while in the service of the prophets. Who knows? Maybe the vehicle's will be changed before release.[/quote]The pre-Covie armor was ceremonial and/or for combat effectiveness. Does the H4 Elite armor look ceremonial or for combat effectiveness? I don't think so. It's a retcon but 343 will find a way to make it canon (like they did with the H4 Grunts). Nonetheless, I only care if they act like Elites (CE, H2) and actually use cover. As for vehicles, I certainly hope so. I can't believe that they'd allow the Banshee designer to exert complete control over it. The Banshee should be upgraded, not just given fancy new effects and lighting. Or at least given a new coloring because the Reach Banshee is too purple for my tastes.[/quote] I was not aware they explained why grunts were so different. And as for the banshee, I don't like it because it looks like the reach Banshee. The Reach Banshee, is an abomination gameplay wise and looks wise.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sandtrap What if you folks all missed a small detail? What if their armour looks the way it does because the Elites are reverting back to what they were pre-Covenant? After all, certain armours were not allowed to be used while in the service of the prophets. Who knows? Maybe the vehicle's will be changed before release.[/quote]The pre-Covie armor was ceremonial and/or for combat effectiveness. Does the H4 Elite armor look ceremonial or for combat effectiveness? I don't think so. It's a retcon but 343 will find a way to make it canon (like they did with the H4 Grunts). Nonetheless, I only care if they act like Elites (CE, H2) and actually use cover. As for vehicles, I certainly hope so. I can't believe that they'd allow the Banshee designer to exert complete control over it. The Banshee should be upgraded, not just given fancy new effects and lighting. Or at least given a new coloring because the Reach Banshee is too purple for my tastes.[/quote] Have they actually bothered to explain why they are physically changing the body of grunts into something completely different from all other games?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sandtrap What if you folks all missed a small detail? What if their armour looks the way it does because the Elites are reverting back to what they were pre-Covenant? After all, certain armours were not allowed to be used while in the service of the prophets. Who knows? Maybe the vehicle's will be changed before release.[/quote]The pre-Covie armor was ceremonial and/or for combat effectiveness. Does the H4 Elite armor look ceremonial or for combat effectiveness? I don't think so. It's a retcon but 343 will find a way to make it canon (like they did with the H4 Grunts). Nonetheless, I only care if they act like Elites (CE, H2) and actually use cover. As for vehicles, I certainly hope so. I can't believe that they'd allow the Banshee designer to exert complete control over it. The Banshee should be upgraded, not just given fancy new effects and lighting. Or at least given a new coloring because the Reach Banshee is too purple for my tastes. [Edited on 07.10.2012 6:12 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron A: Glasslands told me that. You know, how the bulk of the leaders did not back Thel fully? And the one Kadon (and the other Elite's wife) both support peace for the sole reason that The Elites CANNOT utterly destroy humanity, and both say humanity deserves to be destroyed? B: Sure, I buy that. Look to C. C: Trivial details to you, nitpicking? maybe. But it doesn't bloody make sense IF (as 343 hasn't said so yet) we explain the Elite personal armor being so shoddy looking due to lack of repairs/supplies to maintain them, yet they pull out vehicles that likewise, haven't had the supplies to maintain/repair them but are perfectly pristine fresh from an engineer inspection. You seem to just not give a damn for ANY of the little details. Little details can make or break a story. Hell, what did the Reach debates boil down to? A lot of little details for some. It's just really bad storytelling to explain the body armor looking like crap cause of wear and tear, then having a vehicle which would see MORE wear and tear, brand shiny new. Though as said, 343 hasn't, as far as I know, said anything about that. We'll see what their comment on it is when the game comes out. However, if they do go with the theory posted in this topic but don't give the vehicles a little wear and tear... it doesn't make sense. Edit: To compare, it's like... saying a man has just come from a warzone where the soldiers had no access to showers/basic comforts, received VERY little sleep... and when he steps out of the truck that just came straight back from the front lines... He's spotlessly clean, well-rested, and looking fine. The two details just don't click together with that information. Now say, if they put in the truck stopped at a medical station where he slept for two days and took a shower... it makes sense.[/quote] What if you folks all missed a small detail? What if their armour looks the way it does because the Elites are reverting back to what they were pre-Covenant? After all, certain armours were not allowed to be used while in the service of the prophets. Who knows? Maybe the vehicle's will be changed before release.
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As a post-war novel, I have to agree that Glasslands didn't really set the stage to well. That's what the first book should do.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] devastat0r09 Why the hell are they still fighting us anyway? Their race was betrayed years ago. I wish you could walk up, and be all like, "YO, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOUR RACE LEFT THE COVENANT... GEEZUS." Seriously. Didn't masterchief pick up any of their foreign tongue when fighting with the Arbiter?[/quote] Why are they fighting us? Cause of us. ONI decided the best option for keeping humanity safe was to give lots of plasma rifles to the faction of Elites most likely to turn around and attempt to kill all of humanity. Instead of, you know, supporting Thel who wants an official, solid peace treaty. Oh, and by Glasslands times apparently that large, growing movement of Elite youth who respect humanity has all been wiped out. (At least, Glasslands never once makes mention of them.)[/quote] Which is lame.
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If my Arby becomes what Glasslands makes him out to be, I'll have to drop my enthusiasm for Halo canon. 343 can -blam!- up Zealots and make ONI bad guys, but when they choose this path, that's where I draw the line.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh And who told you that? Just because the Arbiter said that they can't afford another war that means the Arbiter plans on turning on us? He's stating a fact against some of the Elites' willingness to fight us again, that they couldn't fight another war even if they wanted too. Which Thel doesn't.[/quote] The subtext of Glasslands strongly implies that. I don't know why people bother arguing this. It was plastered all over the place like paints at a nursery art class, from the implications that there is no peace but rather only an "absence of shooting", to the fact that some of Thel's supporters do not want peace with Humans. It's not Thel that matters here, it's every other Elite; if they were capable of doing so, they would have destroyed Earth shortly after the war, and nothing in Glasslands or afterwards would have happened. (Because the Elites would have continued to hunt down and kill every last Human) Humanity (And Thel) are just lucky that the Elites haven't got the ships to spare, otherwise Earth would be history and Thel wouldn't have a following who appear to only following him for his emphasis on reconstruction. (Which, unfortunately for them, requires a temporary peace with Humans) And I wouldn't put any bets on saying for sure what Thel will and will not do. His attitude in Glasslands was entirely apathetic to Humans, borderline dismissive. The entire fundamental tone of the fiction has just changed, and Thel's character remaining the same isn't something I am going to put any faith into at all. We'll see if he will attach any greater value to Human life, possibly on par with Sangheili lives, or whether he will simply continue to view Humans as sub-sentient animals and tools like the rest of his kind does. Given his dismissive nature in GL, it's more likely that he will fall on the side of the latter attitude than the former, possibly trying to use and then discard Humanity some time down the line for some utilitarian " for the good of Sanghelios" reasoning, as that is what was hinted at as his true motivation in that assembly. [Edited on 07.09.2012 9:35 PM PDT]
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I think the Zealot looks pretty good, the minor looks... Well it's growing on me I guess. Oh the Majors look pretty cool too, they look very much so like the predator in some ways.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BenTheSlayer011 I agree that Zealots should be classic gold, surely your OP if your gold.[/quote]Amen. When Ultra Elites and Generals became the most common leader enemies, I was very disappointed. Zealot appearances used to be numerous! [Edited on 07.09.2012 7:35 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] devastat0r09 Why the hell are they still fighting us anyway? Their race was betrayed years ago. I wish you could walk up, and be all like, "YO, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOUR RACE LEFT THE COVENANT... GEEZUS." Seriously. Didn't masterchief pick up any of their foreign tongue when fighting with the Arbiter?[/quote] Why are they fighting us? Cause of us. ONI decided the best option for keeping humanity safe was to give lots of plasma rifles to the faction of Elites most likely to turn around and attempt to kill all of humanity. Instead of, you know, supporting Thel who wants an official, solid peace treaty. Oh, and by Glasslands times apparently that large, growing movement of Elite youth who respect humanity has all been wiped out. (At least, Glasslands never once makes mention of them.)
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Why the hell are they still fighting us anyway? Their race was betrayed years ago. I wish you could walk up, and be all like, "YO, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOUR RACE LEFT THE COVENANT... GEEZUS." Seriously. Didn't masterchief pick up any of their foreign tongue when fighting with the Arbiter?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] fsabran firts of we don't know the exact size of their fleet secondly their ships will probaly be in a very decayed state. Now i know there are holes in this explanation but it is good enough for me[/quote] Yet, they have a new rifle (developed by an ELITE armory no less), and all their vehicles look like they are in pristine condition...
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firts of we don't know the exact size of their fleet secondly their ships will probaly be in a very decayed state. Now i know there are holes in this explanation but it is good enough for me
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Arbiter 739 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SHAOLINMONKEY 93 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 It makes sense, since the Prophets aren't the figureheads of the Covenant their materialistic and ceremonial nature is replaced with a more barbaric and rugged feel.[/quote] I don't quite agree with that. [b]Sangheili have always been a race of honor and pride.[/b] Their ways wouldn't change because of the shift in leadership. I thoroughly believe that the enemies we are seeing here in the covenant is not through the allies we found from the events of Halo 3, but rather through some rogue forces of the covenant. I hope to see the Sangheili as our allies once again with the inclusion of the Arbiter in 343's rendition of his Armor. Now that would be something.[/quote] Honor...now that's a laugh.[/quote] What? In the books they wouldn't pick up a fully loaded human weapon if they ran out of ammo at a critical time. There was this whole thing about sending assassins that I don't remember too. They would also put their kids in considerable danger, if one of them didn't survive they were too weak. [/quote] So killing innocent men, women and children because your religious leader said to is honorable?
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A: Glasslands told me that. You know, how the bulk of the leaders did not back Thel fully? And the one Kadon (and the other Elite's wife) both support peace for the sole reason that The Elites CANNOT utterly destroy humanity, and both say humanity deserves to be destroyed? B: Sure, I buy that. Look to C. C: Trivial details to you, nitpicking? maybe. But it doesn't bloody make sense IF (as 343 hasn't said so yet) we explain the Elite personal armor being so shoddy looking due to lack of repairs/supplies to maintain them, yet they pull out vehicles that likewise, haven't had the supplies to maintain/repair them but are perfectly pristine fresh from an engineer inspection. You seem to just not give a damn for ANY of the little details. Little details can make or break a story. Hell, what did the Reach debates boil down to? A lot of little details for some. It's just really bad storytelling to explain the body armor looking like crap cause of wear and tear, then having a vehicle which would see MORE wear and tear, brand shiny new. Though as said, 343 hasn't, as far as I know, said anything about that. We'll see what their comment on it is when the game comes out. However, if they do go with the theory posted in this topic but don't give the vehicles a little wear and tear... it doesn't make sense. Edit: To compare, it's like... saying a man has just come from a warzone where the soldiers had no access to showers/basic comforts, received VERY little sleep... and when he steps out of the truck that just came straight back from the front lines... He's spotlessly clean, well-rested, and looking fine. The two details just don't click together with that information. Now say, if they put in the truck stopped at a medical station where he slept for two days and took a shower... it makes sense. [Edited on 07.09.2012 3:47 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Arbiter 739 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SHAOLINMONKEY 93 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 It makes sense, since the Prophets aren't the figureheads of the Covenant their materialistic and ceremonial nature is replaced with a more barbaric and rugged feel.[/quote] I don't quite agree with that. [b]Sangheili have always been a race of honor and pride.[/b] Their ways wouldn't change because of the shift in leadership. I thoroughly believe that the enemies we are seeing here in the covenant is not through the allies we found from the events of Halo 3, but rather through some rogue forces of the covenant. I hope to see the Sangheili as our allies once again with the inclusion of the Arbiter in 343's rendition of his Armor. Now that would be something.[/quote] Honor...now that's a laugh.[/quote] What? In the books they wouldn't pick up a fully loaded human weapon if they ran out of ammo at a critical time. There was this whole thing about sending assassins that I don't remember too. They would also put their kids in considerable danger, if one of them didn't survive they were too weak. Honestly these sangheili look awful. It makes since that plenty of their gear has been heavily damaged (and they can't replace it considering the Covenant's state), but I expect a good reason in-game. [/quote] Yeah, but now they don't want peace because it's been proven humanity are good fighters, or proven that the Prophets lied to them about the whole thing. They want peace... because they can't destroy the humans outright at the moment. [/quote] And who told you that? Just because the Arbiter said that they can't afford another war that means the Arbiter plans on turning on us? He's stating a fact against some of the Elites' willingness to fight us again, that they couldn't fight another war even if they wanted too. Which Thel doesn't. And a very simple explanation for the pristine vehicles: it's a game. The player will be less likely to take a rusty old car over a brand new one. Would you rather drive a ghost that doesn't appear to have been used or cleaned in 5 years, or a fully armed and armored warthog? Once again you're nitpicking on trivial details that don't matter. Is the world going to explode if there's not an in-story explanation for why the Ghosts look new? Nope. If there is one, great, more power to you, but if not, who cares? They're a game mechanic, not the Ark. [Edited on 07.09.2012 2:46 PM PDT]
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I agree that Zealots should be classic gold, surely your OP if your gold. Also, I believe these 'Halo 4 Elites' are nothing more then a group of rouges. [Edited on 07.09.2012 1:16 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Arbiter 739 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SHAOLINMONKEY 93 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 It makes sense, since the Prophets aren't the figureheads of the Covenant their materialistic and ceremonial nature is replaced with a more barbaric and rugged feel.[/quote] I don't quite agree with that. [b]Sangheili have always been a race of honor and pride.[/b] Their ways wouldn't change because of the shift in leadership. I thoroughly believe that the enemies we are seeing here in the covenant is not through the allies we found from the events of Halo 3, but rather through some rogue forces of the covenant. I hope to see the Sangheili as our allies once again with the inclusion of the Arbiter in 343's rendition of his Armor. Now that would be something.[/quote] Honor...now that's a laugh.[/quote] What? In the books they wouldn't pick up a fully loaded human weapon if they ran out of ammo at a critical time. There was this whole thing about sending assassins that I don't remember too. They would also put their kids in considerable danger, if one of them didn't survive they were too weak. Honestly these sangheili look awful. It makes since that plenty of their gear has been heavily damaged (and they can't replace it considering the Covenant's state), but I expect a good reason in-game. [/quote] Yeah, but now they don't want peace because it's been proven humanity are good fighters, or proven that the Prophets lied to them about the whole thing. They want peace... because they can't destroy the humans outright at the moment. And again, I'd totally agree with the statements about the gear degrading over time/looking worse off... But then how does one explain the PRISTINE ghosts, wraiths, phantoms, banshees? Did they run through acid ran in their body armor but leave everything else behind? And of course, yet another variant of Zealot armor that looks more like Reach spec ops then Reach zealots.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SHAOLINMONKEY 93 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 It makes sense, since the Prophets aren't the figureheads of the Covenant their materialistic and ceremonial nature is replaced with a more barbaric and rugged feel.[/quote] I don't quite agree with that. [b]Sangheili have always been a race of honor and pride.[/b] Their ways wouldn't change because of the shift in leadership. I thoroughly believe that the enemies we are seeing here in the covenant is not through the allies we found from the events of Halo 3, but rather through some rogue forces of the covenant. I hope to see the Sangheili as our allies once again with the inclusion of the Arbiter in 343's rendition of his Armor. Now that would be something.[/quote] Honor...now that's a laugh.[/quote] What? In the books they wouldn't pick up a fully loaded human weapon if they ran out of ammo at a critical time. There was this whole thing about sending assassins that I don't remember too. They would also put their kids in considerable danger, if one of them didn't survive they were too weak. Honestly these sangheili look awful. It makes since that plenty of their gear has been heavily damaged (and they can't replace it considering the Covenant's state), but I expect a good reason in-game. [Edited on 07.09.2012 11:11 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SHAOLINMONKEY 93 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 It makes sense, since the Prophets aren't the figureheads of the Covenant their materialistic and ceremonial nature is replaced with a more barbaric and rugged feel.[/quote] I don't quite agree with that. [b]Sangheili have always been a race of honor and pride.[/b] Their ways wouldn't change because of the shift in leadership. I thoroughly believe that the enemies we are seeing here in the covenant is not through the allies we found from the events of Halo 3, but rather through some rogue forces of the covenant. I hope to see the Sangheili as our allies once again with the inclusion of the Arbiter in 343's rendition of his Armor. Now that would be something.[/quote] Honor...now that's a laugh.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sp4rksLT GOD DAMN IT STOP WITH THE ROUGE PLEASE. It's ROGUE. R-O-G-U-E. Not that hard, now is it? On topic - blargh, the elite redesign is stupid. When I saw them for the first time the first thing that came to mind was GoW. Sleeveless, giant feet. Don't look elite at all. Canonically they look that way since they're a splinter covenant faction with degrading tech and not many supplies. Still doesn't explain why they have to look e-fin stupid.[/quote] I didn't really mind it that much, as I've already dealt with stupid looking Elites, aka the ones from Reach.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SHAOLINMONKEY 93 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 It makes sense, since the Prophets aren't the figureheads of the Covenant their materialistic and ceremonial nature is replaced with a more barbaric and rugged feel.[/quote] I don't quite agree with that. Sangheili have always been a race of honor and pride. Their ways wouldn't change because of the shift in leadership. I thoroughly believe that the enemies we are seeing here in the covenant is not through the allies we found from the events of Halo 3, but rather through some rogue forces of the covenant. [/quote] Well, you're right and wrong. It was confirmed a while ago that this is a rogue faction--at the least not with the Arbiter--but it's not so much the shift in leadership but the lack of any upkeep in technology and culture. The galaxy is falling apart, the Covies just reflect that aesthetic. If they look like Gears of War, that's probably because they're going for a similar look to portray similar circumstances.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Um, Glasslands had ONI giving default plasma rifles out. Not a brand new rifle. And even then, why would their armor suddenly go from clean to looking like it was pulled out of a dumpster? Why would they loose entire armor pieces, or sealed suits? I'm talking like halo 2 era group. One of them who didn't get caught in the schism.[/quote] Even the Heretics had full EVA-ready harnesses.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Timmie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost But most importantly, Zealots. They're red. I hope they aren't field masters because that'd tell me that all Zealots are now red. :( I love Goldies. I don't want to have to call them Redies...[/quote] Actually in Halo Reach, it's the Elite Generals that are Gold, in the other Halo's it was the Zealots that were Gold.[/quote]Elite Generals are not worthy of gold. In-game, we see Zealots actually presenting a threat (in cinematics) while Generals are nowhere to be found. There's never any 'assassinate the General' objective like there was for the Zealot on TotS. The only reason Bungie got away with the color swap was because H3 didn't have any Zealots. The perfect opportunity to start a retcon. Otherwise, it is completely unacceptable. Only Zealots should have gold armor. [Edited on 07.09.2012 5:33 AM PDT]
