I'm still going with the idea that if the shields are up, nothing makes it through to the ship. I mean under the assumption that a Covenant ship has compartmentalized shield generators, if anything went through the shields without disabling them, these generators would be damaged, and become inoperable. This would mean the shields would stop recharging, without even being lowered. But this does not happen, Covenant shields recharge after taking damage. So I think that I can safely conclude that force does not transfer through the shields, and is dissipated in other directions, away from the hull. So this, in my opinion, leaves the only remaining factor as the strength of the Super Carrier's shields. If they hold out from the Super MAC, the ship survives, if they don't, it is destroyed. We don't know how powerful the shields are, so we can't really tell if the Super MAC is powerful enough to one shot it. But due to the vessels sheer size, I'm going to guess that its shields are powerful enough to hold against the Super MAC, meaning it would survive.

It seems anton's last post pretty much sums it up from a mechanics POV. Currently taking physics courses myself as i am a mechanical engineer hopeful, and from what i know regardless of how covenant shields work, the covenant are most likely obeying the laws of conservation of linear momentum when in regular space as opposed to slip-space(not sure if the same could be said about the forerunner). And as anton already stated, the covenant's use of compartmentalization (if that is even a word) of shield generators is key to this scenario. The shields would most likely dissipate much of the force, however, since this is the SMAC we're talking about here, the total force (change in momentum means an acceleration, thus force) generated from one of those 3000 ton bad boys is enormous. From the looks of it, many people on this thread do not understand just how catastrophic a collision from that thing would be. Unless the energy shield technology on the super-carrier is vastly superior to the shield tech. on their other ships, then the shields would not be nearly enough. The shields will definitely give from a SMAC, after that it is just a matter of how thick the hull is. Based off of how thick covenant ships usually are, and just scaling it up for the super-carrier, the SMAC round would likely still have enough energy to penetrate the ship (if it didn't already shatter from the sheer mechanical stress on the individual pieces, as anton said, the ship is not one giant piece). After entering the ship, the innards will be essentially tissue paper and . . . now that i think about it more, the super-carrier would probably be split apart, at the very least completely inoperable (as some say "KO"'d). [Edited on 06.21.2012 1:40 PM PDT]

There may not even be any Super Carriers left, they may have all been consumed by the Flood or destroyed in battle.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] raganok99 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Meh. Mainly I think we would have to see some stats on the supercarrier before truly deciding one way or the other. As it stands, there isn't anything involving supercarriers vs MAC rounds yet.[/quote] Perhaps so. *Guess what? I got my old account back so I am no longer using my newer account of Elder Bias. :)[/quote] I doubt that we will see supercarriers any time soon. With the Ancient Evil taking center stage the Covenant will probably be sidelined. If we do see a supercarrier, I'm expecting that it will be destroyed to show how strong the Ancient evil is. Great to see you got your account back. What will you do with the Bias account?

So I see a lot of people saying we don't know how the Covie's shields work. Well that is true, but judging from the Halo Reach Live Action Trailer, the shields on the cruiser seemed to expand outward as the cruiser exploded, this suggests that the shields actually absorb the Kinetic energy from impacts/explosions. Which means even if the shields can withstand the impact of a 3000 ton slug going 0.04% of the speed of light (speed of light is 299 792 458 meters/second) most of the kinetic energy will be absorbed by the shields and dissipated over the hull of the Carrier. Which will either cripple it, severely impair its function, or outright crush like a tin can.

If it is known how much kinetic energy the Super-Carrier's shields can withstand before failing, then this is a simple math problem.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Meh. Mainly I think we would have to see some stats on the supercarrier before truly deciding one way or the other. As it stands, there isn't anything involving supercarriers vs MAC rounds yet.[/quote] Perhaps so. *Guess what? I got my old account back so I am no longer using my newer account of Elder Bias. :)

Meh. Mainly I think we would have to see some stats on the supercarrier before truly deciding one way or the other. As it stands, there isn't anything involving supercarriers vs MAC rounds yet.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Madmaxepic When a Spartan is shot by a Battle Rifle, the force of the BR does not transfer through the shields, they must be lowered first. Why would it be any different for a Super Carrier? I would guess all kinetic energy that impacts the shields would be reflected into space rather then inwards. This is technology we do not understand, so we can't just assume it operates the way 21st century scientists would expect it to. If the Super MAC is not powerful enough to lower the shields and destroy the ship with one shot, then the Super Carrier will survive.[/quote] We don't know whether the force is transferred or not. We do know that the transferred force is not great enough to cause appreciable damage.

I know a Type 95 could.

When a Spartan is shot by a Battle Rifle, the force of the BR does not transfer through the shields, they must be lowered first. Why would it be any different for a Super Carrier? I would guess all kinetic energy that impacts the shields would be reflected into space rather then inwards. This is technology we do not understand, so we can't just assume it operates the way 21st century scientists would expect it to. If the Super MAC is not powerful enough to lower the shields and destroy the ship with one shot, then the Super Carrier will survive.

MAC slugs [i]do not[/i] simply bounce off against Covenant shields. Instead, it does damage because of those kinetic energy seeped through its shields to its hull. That is why it was been doubtlessly confirmed too many times that it takes two to three MAC slugs hits to effectively take down shields. Which it means that MAC slugs does fair amount of damage to the ships even shields are up. Notice key word of "two to three MAC slugs hits" which it implies that MAC slugs actually would damage shields generators at compartments. Like Anton said, Covenant's Shields are mostly based on compartmentalization. (based on Ghost of Onyx novel.) To clear this up, two to three hits in short of time would be required to completely shut down its shields then final shot would critically damage the ship or out-rightly destroying it. [quote]Proof: Ghosts of Onyx, Elites mentioned how different sections of the shields were at different strengths. For compartmentalization part. [/quote] So yes, SMAC would destroy Supercarrier in one hit to two hits. And, we already settled down with calcs on Covenant's shields. IT's been rated to be 196 kilotons (standard MAC) to several hundred kilotons (depending on shields strength, according to reactor's outputs.)

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tjal You are saying that if you punch a house, the house explodes because it doesn't move? Or if you shoot a tank with a pistol, the tank should explode because it doesn't move? (actually they do move, but only a tiny tiny bit.) The ship weighs A LOT more then the mac round, meaning it never moves a "significant" amount. Do you even know what inertia is? Inertia is not time based, so there can't be a "before" when considering inertia. Inertia simply is the formula with F = m*a I actually think the ship will move a few hundred yards when it is hit by something really powerfull, regardless of whether the shields hold or not. By your example, if you hit the shield with a ping-pong ball, the ship would explode because it doesn't move. And you can counter energy with energy. That's exactly what the shields do...[/quote] Um, that is not what I said. In fact I did not say any of those things. I didn't say the ship explodes because it doesn't move, I said the shield generators are destroyed because the ship's overall mass doesn't accelerate quick enough. I'll explain it more. When the ship's shields are hit with the SMAC round, momentum is transferred to the shields from the round. The shields are generated at a source, which is obviously the shield generators themselves. So there is momentum transfer through the shields to the generators, and thus to the rest of the ship as a whole. The ship in this case cannot be looked at as a contiguous system. It has many parts to it which are all connected together by a variety of load bearing structures. (Screws, bolts, girders etc) What I am thinking is that it can basically be looked at as "Shield generators + general ship mass". The inertia of the generators is significantly smaller than the inertia of the general ship mass, therefore they would experience a greater acceleration than the rest of the ship due to the momentum transfer. (A changing momentum implies a force) So what I said was that the momentum transfer is so great, the resultant force so large that the shield generators would probably be torn from their mountings, especially when we consider that Covenant shields are compartmentalised. (It was mentioned in Ghosts of Onyx) Small sections probably with their own generators. If any of these get hit then that patch of shielding is just gone completely, regardless if the power output of the shield is actually enough to "dissipate" the energy of the MAC round. Shields are not some wall that completely protects the ship until they get depleted, or at least they shouldn't be. If they did exist, then their function would probably be to simply [b]redistribute[/b] the force over as many points as possible (The generators) thus lessening the overall damage to the ship. The advantage of shields over a hull however is that they can regenerate; hulls cannot. They also don't seem to yield under pressure, instead only giving way when they run out of power; hulls just crumple and break in the spot that they are hit, and this also means that all the force is delivered to one location whereas shields can spread it out. Several wrecked generators is still better than a MAC round going straight through, but in this case the SMAC round might still have enough energy to keep on going after the shields in that area are gone. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999[/quote] I'm not complaining about the fiction, I'm just making an observation that might make the UNSC's so called "primitive" accelerator technology actually better than the Covenant's (And maybe even Forerunners eventually, if the energy of their MAC weaponry could ever get higher) plasma weapons. Plasma weapons might deplete shields faster than projectile weaponry (Perhaps due to it transferring more of its energy to the shield than a projectile, though I wouldn't be too sure about that), but projectile weapons would reach a certain energy where they can punch right through regardless of how powerful the shields were. To combat energy weapons, more powerful shields. To combat projectile weapons, better ship structural design, stronger materials, more shield generators to distribute more force. Forerunner construction materials are incredibly strong, so a SMAC would likely just bounce off of their shields in the same way that a MAC bounces off of Covenant shields. And Precursor materials are apparently invulnerable to conventional damage, so they render both types of weaponry useless in the end. [Edited on 06.15.2012 10:46 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] realdomdom How do shields work? What are shields? How do they do what they do? And what [i]exactly[/i] do they do? If we don't know all these things, this discussion is nonsensical.[/quote] I don't think we need to know the answer to these. What I am thinking is that the momentum has got to go somewhere (As it is always conserved), and the only place is into the shield, and like any field, the generator of the shield will also absorb that momentum. Given the massive inertia of the ship, the shield generators would likely give way before the ship begins to move a significant amount. Unless of course the shields can just make momentum disappear, in which case half of physics as we know it walks out the door right now.[/quote] You are saying that if you punch a house, the house explodes because it doesn't move? Or if you shoot a tank with a pistol, the tank should explode because it doesn't move? (actually they do move, but only a tiny tiny bit.) The ship weighs A LOT more then the mac round, meaning it never moves a "significant" amount. Do you even know what inertia is? Inertia is not time based, so there can't be a "before" when considering inertia. Inertia simply is the formula with F = m*a I actually think the ship will move a few hundred yards when it is hit by something really powerfull, regardless of whether the shields hold or not. By your example, if you hit the shield with a ping-pong ball, the ship would explode because it doesn't move. And you can counter energy with energy. That's exactly what the shields do... [Edited on 06.14.2012 6:14 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] realdomdom How do shields work? What are shields? How do they do what they do? And what [i]exactly[/i] do they do? If we don't know all these things, this discussion is nonsensical.[/quote] I don't think we need to know the answer to these. What I am thinking is that the momentum has got to go somewhere (As it is always conserved), and the only place is into the shield, and like any field, the generator of the shield will also absorb that momentum. Given the massive inertia of the ship, the shield generators would likely give way before the ship begins to move a significant amount. Unless of course the shields can just make momentum disappear, in which case half of physics as we know it walks out the door right now.[/quote] Idea: -Nearly all Covenant technology is based off of Forerunner technology. -Shields are likely based off of Forerunner shields. -Because Forerunner ships don't break apart into little pieces when shot by MACs (The Storm) obviously they thought of some way to circumvent that momentum issue. -Consider also that the Forerunners had technology that could be called magic and their technology is well above our own. -Covenant copies Forerunner shielding and gets the Forerunner's momentum removers or whatever you want to call them. This is a work of fiction. I have no doubt that some laws of physics are ignored in order to make a more enjoyable story. Of all of Halo's fans, how many do you think would actually know that the shields aren't supposed to work that way? I think that they may have just ignored that so they wouldn't have to explain why the Covenant ship exploded even though it's shields stopped the shot.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] realdomdom How do shields work? What are shields? How do they do what they do? And what [i]exactly[/i] do they do? If we don't know all these things, this discussion is nonsensical.[/quote] I don't think we need to know the answer to these. What I am thinking is that the momentum has got to go somewhere (As it is always conserved), and the only place is into the shield, and like any field, the generator of the shield will also absorb that momentum. Given the massive inertia of the ship, the shield generators would likely give way before the ship begins to move a significant amount. Unless of course the shields can just make momentum disappear, in which case half of physics as we know it walks out the door right now.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HipiO7 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HipiO7 I´d say it would take it´s shields down, and if not, it would do massive damage to the ship itself because of the transfer of force from the round. To completely leave the ship inoperable, I´d say 2 shots max.[/quote] To clear this up for my own sake. You are saying firing a super mac at ANYTHING will result in the ship being destroyed? So if I fired a super MAC at a forerunner ship (or the keyships from halo 2/3), and it's shields (being so much more advanced) weren't taken down in a single hit from the blast, the ship itself would take massive damage? That is what I'm not understanding. For this concept to apply to Covie ship shields, it'd apply to everything. and I just can't grasp this idea of "Ship gets hit, shields HOLD and are still up, ship explodes."[/quote] Although it has already been cleared in the following pages, it must say that there is a considerable difference between Covenant shield tech and Forerunner shield tech. This applies also to the armor each type of vessel had.[/quote] But still, there is nothing I see that says this 'transfer of energy' only destroys covenant ships and does nothing against Forerunner ships. Or other types of vessels.[/quote] I´m not saying it would destroy the ship straight out from pure energy transfer from the hit, but it would sustain substantial damage that´s for sure. For the killing it, it needs to penetrate the shields and thus the vessel itself.

How do shields work? What are shields? How do they do what they do? And what [i]exactly[/i] do they do? If we don't know all these things, this discussion is nonsensical. [Edited on 06.13.2012 10:50 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HipiO7 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HipiO7 I´d say it would take it´s shields down, and if not, it would do massive damage to the ship itself because of the transfer of force from the round. To completely leave the ship inoperable, I´d say 2 shots max.[/quote] To clear this up for my own sake. You are saying firing a super mac at ANYTHING will result in the ship being destroyed? So if I fired a super MAC at a forerunner ship (or the keyships from halo 2/3), and it's shields (being so much more advanced) weren't taken down in a single hit from the blast, the ship itself would take massive damage? That is what I'm not understanding. For this concept to apply to Covie ship shields, it'd apply to everything. and I just can't grasp this idea of "Ship gets hit, shields HOLD and are still up, ship explodes."[/quote] Although it has already been cleared in the following pages, it must say that there is a considerable difference between Covenant shield tech and Forerunner shield tech. This applies also to the armor each type of vessel had.[/quote] But still, there is nothing I see that says this 'transfer of energy' only destroys covenant ships and does nothing against Forerunner ships. Or other types of vessels.

no

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AmiableWolf [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Quantam People don't understand how ballistics work, do they? Sabot rounds in tanks are very thin, they result in small holes through tanks, with no explosive charge. However, if they penetrate,the tank blows up. [/quote] What are you on about? When sabot rounds enter a tank fragments of metal fly off in all directions, but these shards kill people rather than blow stuff up. A mac round is a 3000 ton tungsten slug. If the slug is harder/tougher than the hull, then it should not break into pieces but go straight through[/quote] The shards blow up tanks, search it up. Also, a MAC round would probably vaporize the ship. There is way too much energy on that thing. Just like how the magazine explodes, major structural damage would occur, result in the instant destruction and annihilation of the ship's engines.

Although it was a strange design choice that the Covenant Super Carrier looks identical to the Assault Carrier only 10 times bigger... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sigma617 As far as I'm concerned, if you are in the sights of a hostile Super MAC you are dead. No exceptions. The energy released is absolutely colossal. Size will not save you.[/quote] I don't think that a Super MAC could destroy a Forerunner ship, or High Charity for that matter. [Edited on 06.12.2012 8:06 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spurius [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tjal 2. the shield is powered by something, which in turn allows the shield to deflect a percentage of the power generated (there is always loss in power). However, power: j/s and kinetic energy is simply joule, so I would not really know how much energy it can actually reflect. It could store energy, this way a smaller generator can reflect a very powerfull shot once every few minutes? [/quote] ^this. we do not even know how the shield absorbs energy from incoming projectiles. you need energy to counter energy when using an energy shield. Therefore, if ANYTHING that does not deplete the shields energy fully hits the shield, the projectile's energy is either deflected elsewhere or negated fully. The ship's hull remains unharmed, just like in-game physics.[/quote] Yes, I know. I was merely wondering in what way the shield converts power feeded to the system by a generator into "shield-energy". My entire point is build around the fact that if the shields energy > kinetic energy (of the slug) --> shields will hold. If kinetic energy > shield energy --> energy passed on to the hull = kinetic energy - shield energy. If you break the problem down into incoming energy (in the form of a mac-slug) and a reflecting energy (in the form of a shield), the problem is pretty straight forward and the only thing that actually matters is: how strong is the shield? We don't know. The shields might hold or they might not... My personal opinion: if the slug hit perfectly, meaning: a 90 degree angle onto the shield, the shields would probably fail and result in minor damage to the ship. The way supercruisers are build it'll still be for 90% operationable. However, any skilled shipmaster would see the slug coming (it's not that fast) and adjust the ships position, therefor decreasing the angle of the impact, resulting in only 25-50% of the impact is transferred to the shield.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tjal 2. the shield is powered by something, which in turn allows the shield to deflect a percentage of the power generated (there is always loss in power). However, power: j/s and kinetic energy is simply joule, so I would not really know how much energy it can actually reflect. It could store energy, this way a smaller generator can reflect a very powerfull shot once every few minutes? [/quote] ^this. we do not even know how the shield absorbs energy from incoming projectiles. you need energy to counter energy when using an energy shield. Therefore, if ANYTHING that does not deplete the shields energy fully hits the shield, the projectile's energy is either deflected elsewhere or negated fully. The ship's hull remains unharmed, just like in-game physics.

Depends on the hit. Super MACs have been known to penetrate the shields(due to kinetic energy), impact and tear through the hull of a ship, and even hit another ship behind it. If they aimed the MAC cannon at a vital part of the ship, the Super Carrier is toast!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HipiO7 I´d say it would take it´s shields down, and if not, it would do massive damage to the ship itself because of the transfer of force from the round. To completely leave the ship inoperable, I´d say 2 shots max.[/quote] To clear this up for my own sake. You are saying firing a super mac at ANYTHING will result in the ship being destroyed? So if I fired a super MAC at a forerunner ship (or the keyships from halo 2/3), and it's shields (being so much more advanced) weren't taken down in a single hit from the blast, the ship itself would take massive damage? That is what I'm not understanding. For this concept to apply to Covie ship shields, it'd apply to everything. and I just can't grasp this idea of "Ship gets hit, shields HOLD and are still up, ship explodes."[/quote] Although it has already been cleared in the following pages, it must say that there is a considerable difference between Covenant shield tech and Forerunner shield tech. This applies also to the armor each type of vessel had.