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5/22/2012 6:57:26 AM
166
God: A Reassuring Fable (Carl Sagan)
After some positive responses from my previous threads (as well as tons of Sagan love), I've decided to post yet another link to a famous someone-or-other.
This time it happens to be the late, great Carl Sagan, famous Cosmologist and science educator. (1934-1996)
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtDjZ5TRQWI&feature=g-all-f]God: A Reassuring Fable.[/url]
What do you think of this video, and more generally, Sagan [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_sagan]himself[/url], Flood?
[Edited on 05.21.2012 10:57 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people, I'm obviously going to provoke an argument, which is by definition two (or more) people trying to push their opinion on the other(s). Please, stop trying to be clever, stop searching for loopholes and technicalities. This is a criticism of religion, it's baiting a pointless flame war/e-argument, it should be locked. The end.[/quote] Did you honestly just compare a lack of belief in god to racism? If you honestly think that someone stating their opinion is "trying to push their beliefs on others" then where does the problem reside?[/quote] [u]I do not belong to a religion, I am simply trying to stand up for the rights of people who do[/u][/quote] That post was not directed at you, I understand your predicament. [/quote] Ah.. well in that case... *ahem* So how about that Carl Sagan guy huh?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people...[/quote] Are you actually trying to say that that scenario is even remotely comparable to the video? Seriously? It would be defense if the OP blatantly said something like "All religions are dumb" etc. or posted a video saying something similar. However, that was most certainly not the case here. I will admit, the OP did post a video that critiqued religion. Although it is most certainly not as defamatory as you make it seem. If you are trying to say that anything that critiques religion should be considered insulting, then I don't know what to say. I think such a claim is absurd and very dangerous.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people...[/quote] Are you actually trying to say that that scenario is even remotely comparable to the video? Seriously? It would be defense if the OP blatantly said something like "All religions are dumb" etc. or posted a video saying something similar. However, that was most certainly not the case here. I will admit, the OP did post a video that critiqued religion. Although it is most certainly not as defamatory as you make it seem. If you are trying to say that anything that critiques religion should be considered insulting, then I don't know what to say. I think such a claim is absurd and very dangerous.[/quote] Anybody with a decent IQ can figure out that that is exactly what the OP said, with many more words.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people...[/quote] Are you actually trying to say that that scenario is even remotely comparable to the video? Seriously? It would be defense if the OP blatantly said something like "All religions are dumb" etc. or posted a video saying something similar. However, that was most certainly not the case here. I will admit, the OP did post a video that critiqued religion. Although it is most certainly not as defamatory as you make it seem. If you are trying to say that anything that critiques religion should be considered insulting, then I don't know what to say. I think such a claim is absurd and very dangerous.[/quote]"God: A Reassuring Fable" basically saying God is not real. Which is basically not allowed on Bnet
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Alright Cortland, I'd like a specific quote from the video or my OP, explicitly showing what part of it was so offensive and inflammatory.
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[quote]Well, unfortunately, you do not have the right to decide for everybody else, so it is your duty as a civilized human being to show enough respect towards your fellow man to not criticize their ideologies so harshly, in such a public way.[/quote] First of all, that video did not "harshly" criticize any ideology. Yes, it critiqued, but it certainly was not harsh. Secondly, I would like to add and emphasize: [b]You do NOT have a right to not be offended.[/b]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music Alright Cortland, I'd like a specific quote from the video or my OP, explicitly showing what part of it was so offensive and inflammatory. [/quote] If you cannot see all the anti religion crammed into the OP, you shouldn't be watching videos about science.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music Alright Cortland, I'd like a specific quote from the video or my OP, explicitly showing what part of it was so offensive and inflammatory. [/quote] If you cannot see all the anti religion crammed into the OP, you shouldn't be watching videos about science.[/quote] I'm serious. Personally, I find nothing about the video or the OP offensive, so I'd like to see the part of it that you see as offensive.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music Alright Cortland, I'd like a specific quote from the video or my OP, explicitly showing what part of it was so offensive and inflammatory. [/quote] If you cannot see all the anti religion crammed into the OP, you shouldn't be watching videos about science.[/quote]I didn't see it. It never said religion, or spirituality is dumb. What t did say is that religion can be soothing to people who don't know what their place or meaning is. That it helps those that can't deal with things happening beyond their control. It also expressed a hope that one day we as a species will grow strong enough to not need to comfort ourselves with religion to exist.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Anybody with a decent IQ can figure out that that is exactly what the OP said, with many more words.[/quote] FFS! Please acknowledge the fact that just because something critiques your beliefs does not imply that it is offensive and inflammatory.
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Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? Not at all offensive is it? Nothing like implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? [/quote] Why is being able to think logically something you wish to disassociate yourself with? [Edited on 05.22.2012 12:15 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music Alright Cortland, I'd like a specific quote from the video or my OP, explicitly showing what part of it was so offensive and inflammatory. [/quote] If you cannot see all the anti religion crammed into the OP, you shouldn't be watching videos about science.[/quote] I'm serious. Personally, I find nothing about the video or the OP offensive, so I'd like to see the part of it that you see as offensive. [/quote] It doesn't offend me, however, it implies that people need religion, and basically discards ideas that people have spent their entire lives adhering to as a "Security Blanket" going so far as to say "Maybe one day, we'll grow up and won't need it." That is a very unfair thing to say.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] lI Maverick lI Meh, all this looks like to me is a bunch of atheists flaunting "Ha, we don't believe in a god/gods, we're better than the rest of you!"[/quote]Well technically what you're saying is true. Atheists are simply sane, not necessarily intelligent, but at least putting them above the mentally diseased or brainwashed religious people. See, this post is offensive...you could say I'm being offensive and you'd be right, but I'm not bothered about hurting people's feelings over such trivial matters. I'm sure little children cry when they find out Santa Claus isn't real. The OP and all the posts before Cockland started posting were not. Typical.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? [/quote] Why is being able to think logically something you wish to disassociate yourself with?[/quote] Interesting point. Why would you ignore the logical reason I posted the example in favor of a "retort" with no weight behind it?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music Alright Cortland, I'd like a specific quote from the video or my OP, explicitly showing what part of it was so offensive and inflammatory. [/quote] If you cannot see all the anti religion crammed into the OP, you shouldn't be watching videos about science.[/quote] I'm serious. Personally, I find nothing about the video or the OP offensive, so I'd like to see the part of it that you see as offensive. [/quote] It doesn't offend me, however, it implies that people need religion, and basically discards ideas that people have spent their entire lives adhering to as a "Security Blanket" going so far as to say "Maybe one day, we'll grow up and won't need it." That is a very unfair thing to say.[/quote] It's also very truthful. Even if it does offend some, the accuracy of the statement does not change.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Giant Enemy Cat [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] lI Maverick lI Meh, all this looks like to me is a bunch of atheists flaunting "Ha, we don't believe in a god/gods, we're better than the rest of you!"[/quote]Well technically what you're saying is true. Atheists are simply sane, not necessarily intelligent, but at least putting them above the mentally diseased or brainwashed religious people. See, this post is offensive...you could say I'm being offensive and you'd be right, but I'm not bothered about hurting people's feelings over such trivial matters. I'm sure little children cry when they find out Santa Claus isn't real. The OP and all the posts before Cockland started posting were not. Typical.[/quote] Wow, that post was almost cool, until you had to show off your butthurt by calling me "Cockland" How is that insulting again?
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I haven't followed Sagan a lot, but from what I gather he's some type of influential speaker. That youtube video was pointless. All he does is ask questions, and never offers any conclusive evidence. So I fail to see how he is successful in influencing others. If anything, he is good at shaking people. Asking them questions outside of their comfort zone. He can get people to question their beliefs and practices. Which is good, because it leads to a more knowledgeable and disciplined society.
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You cannot prove it is true or untrue.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? [/quote] Why is being able to think logically something you wish to disassociate yourself with?[/quote] Interesting point. Why would you ignore the logical reason I posted the example in favor of a "retort" with no weight behind it?[/quote] You consider yourself religious, yes? You believe in a deity or deities, correct? It's inherently illogical to believe something exists without proof of its existence. I don't mean to be insulting, but that's just the nature of faith.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? Not at all offensive is it? Nothing like implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there?[/quote] Lol. Who would get offended by the results of a study? Anyone that would be offended is rather pathetic. "The results of that disagree with how I view reality. You shouldn't be allowed to discuss it!" Additionally, that study did not"implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there" It actually said this: "I think it seems likely that a huge proportion of high functioning autistics are atheists, [b]but, that doesn't mean that a huge proportion of atheists are high functioning autistics[/b]"
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Navweb3620 I haven't followed Sagan a lot, but from what I gather he's some type of influential speaker. That youtube video was pointless. All he does is ask questions, and never offers any conclusive evidence. So I fail to see how he is successful in influencing others. If anything, he is good at shaking people. Asking them questions outside of their comfort zone. He can get people to question their beliefs and practices. Which is good, because it leads to a more knowledgeable and disciplined society.[/quote] There is a difference between that, and getting into people's faces and saying "I am [insert ideology here], and if you are not of the same beliefs system as I am, you are a fool who is wrong, and I hope all people who share common ideas with you are wiped from Earth one day."
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? Not at all offensive is it? Nothing like implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there?[/quote] Lol. Who would get offended by the results of a study? Anyone that would be offended is rather pathetic. "The results of that disagree with how I view reality. You shouldn't be allowed to discuss it!" Additionally, that study did not"implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there" It actually said this: "I think it seems likely that a huge proportion of high functioning autistics are atheists, [b]but, that doesn't mean that a huge proportion of atheists are high functioning autistics[/b]"[/quote] I believe the phrase you're looking for is "correlation does not imply causation."
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? Not at all offensive is it? Nothing like implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there?[/quote] I like that this was sort of a scientific approach in favor of those with faith, but I don't really think much can be concluded from these data, anyway correlation isn't always causation, and what population did they sample anyway? If they did this study again I'm sure the results could vary significantly....
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I give up. I've got work in the morning. I stood up for the people who are being trampled in this thread, and so I think I've made an appropriate ethical decision. To all the people who calmly and logically discussed your opinion: Thank you, please breed as much as you desire, and raise your children with your teachings, they are obviously working. To all the people who were rude, inconsiderate, and intolerable: I wish you the best in life, and hope you don't live near me. To all the people whom are/would have been offended by this thread: I am really sorry that some people are as inconsiderate as they are. If it's any consolidation, I tried to stand for your rights tonight, and even though I took fire, I did so because we all have the right to our own beliefs, and all beliefs (Including a lack of any), should be reasonably respected.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I tried to stand for your rights tonight[/quote] What rights? You don't have a right to not be offended. You don't have a right to not be questioned about your beliefs. You don't have a right to not have your beliefs criticized, no matter how outlandish or reasonable they may seem to you or others. Questioning things and being critical of them is a healthy process. [Edited on 05.22.2012 12:28 AM PDT]
