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5/22/2012 6:57:26 AM
166
God: A Reassuring Fable (Carl Sagan)
After some positive responses from my previous threads (as well as tons of Sagan love), I've decided to post yet another link to a famous someone-or-other.
This time it happens to be the late, great Carl Sagan, famous Cosmologist and science educator. (1934-1996)
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtDjZ5TRQWI&feature=g-all-f]God: A Reassuring Fable.[/url]
What do you think of this video, and more generally, Sagan [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_sagan]himself[/url], Flood?
[Edited on 05.21.2012 10:57 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge Religious discussion is prohibited, not only by Bungie law, but by the fact that nobody is going to change their minds over the Internet, thus making all arguing pointless.[/quote] I haven't even seen an attempt by anyone to change the mind of the other. What a worthless post.[/quote] Read the damn title, you utter ignoramus. I can't think of a more obvious subtext. [Edited on 05.21.2012 11:47 PM PDT]
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My favorite part about this is that we're 5 pages in and have hardly said a word about the actual OP. [Edited on 05.21.2012 11:47 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge Religious discussion is prohibited, not only by Bungie law, but by the fact that nobody is going to change their minds over the Internet, thus making all arguing pointless.[/quote] I haven't even seen an attempt by anyone to change the mind of the other. What a worthless post.[/quote] Read the damn title, you utter ignoramus.[/quote] Nothing about it attempts to try and change your mind. Simply stating a belief is far different than what you claimed.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] theHurtfulTurkey [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge Religious discussion is prohibited, not only by Bungie law, but by the fact that nobody is going to change their minds over the Internet, thus making all arguing pointless.[/quote] I haven't even seen an attempt by anyone to change the mind of the other. What a worthless post.[/quote] Uh...try reading the first post. Regardless, it's not allowed in any context.[/quote] And another pointless post. He asked what you thought of the video, he never tried to change anyone's mind about their beliefs.[/quote] Oh get over yourself, the video is clearly critical of religion, and is inflammatory. If you can't see that, you're just deluded. These kinds of threads are just simply not allowed. [Edited on 05.21.2012 11:48 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Commando3200 Just thought I'd pop in and comment on how quickly this turned into a flame war. ...this is why religious discussion is prohibited.[/quote] Why should that be against the rules? No one is even insulting each other. I know it would just be too much to ask of the moderators to moderate their forum![/quote] I'll agree with you on that. There aren't any insults, and as far as I know, nobody is getting mad. It's more like a rapid fire exchange of conflicting ideas. Edited for spelling mistakes,[/quote] Agreed, I think a lot of people confuse passion with anger. I definitely haven't been upset at all or had any ill will towards anyone here. [/quote] Well, first of all [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=55734448]it's not really up for discussion as to whether this is against the rules, because if you check under rule number one...[/url] Secondly, the problem with discussions such as these is that every time they are discussed, an impasse is reached. Philosophers, scientists, fanatics, fools, nobles and every other Tom, Dick and Harry have been arguing about this, and history shows that it is very difficult to convince someone that they're wrong on this specific issue. Although it may be denied by both parties that they will succumb if the other person truly has a enlightened argument that completely floors them, the reality is is that this is rarely the case. Finally, the issue as to what defines a "flame war" or a "heated discussion" is precisely why the discussions are prohibited. The simple fact that they need to be distinguished from one another leads to another conclusion: not everyone can interpret what the other is saying as either an attack or a retort. This leads to escalation and denial, and is why these discussions are not for Bungie.net. I would direct you [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism]here[/url] if you would like to further discuss such matters, because this is not the place to do it. [Edited on 05.21.2012 11:53 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 My favorite part about this is that we're 5 pages in and have hardly said a word about the actual OP.[/quote] I've had a few posts in between Cortland's.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] theHurtfulTurkey [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] theHurtfulTurkey [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge Religious discussion is prohibited, not only by Bungie law, but by the fact that nobody is going to change their minds over the Internet, thus making all arguing pointless.[/quote] I haven't even seen an attempt by anyone to change the mind of the other. What a worthless post.[/quote] Uh...try reading the first post. Regardless, it's not allowed in any context.[/quote] And another pointless post. He asked what you thought of the video, he never tried to change anyone's mind about their beliefs.[/quote] Oh get over yourself, the video is clearly critical of religion, and is inflammatory. If you can't see that, you're just deluded. [/quote] I never claimed otherwise. Now you're just stepping over yourself because you don't want to admit you were wrong. Being critical of religion has nothing to do with trying to change a person's belief... PERIOD.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge Religious discussion is prohibited, not only by Bungie law, but by the fact that nobody is going to change their minds over the Internet, thus making all arguing pointless.[/quote] I haven't even seen an attempt by anyone to change the mind of the other. What a worthless post.[/quote] Read the damn title, you utter ignoramus. I can't think of a more obvious subtext.[/quote] Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint. [Edited on 05.21.2012 11:50 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 My favorite part about this is that we're 5 pages in and have hardly said a word about the actual OP.[/quote] I lol'd Fine. I think it's only right I start. Carl Sagan was like most people of that era: A dreamer. He was a product of a society that loved to learn. Sadly, we do not live in that time anymore. In some ways, It's good that he died when he did, before people started alienating science for creature comforts.
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Anyways, it's time for me to take a bong hit and make a poll thread about pot. I'm out of here.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real I never claimed otherwise. Now you're just stepping over yourself because you don't want to admit you were wrong. Being critical of religion has nothing to do with trying to change a person's belief... PERIOD.[/quote] Wrong about what? What the hell are you talking about? How am I wrong that this thread is inflammatory and against the rules?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Are You For Real [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge Religious discussion is prohibited, not only by Bungie law, but by the fact that nobody is going to change their minds over the Internet, thus making all arguing pointless.[/quote] I haven't even seen an attempt by anyone to change the mind of the other. What a worthless post.[/quote] Read the damn title, you utter ignoramus. I can't think of a more obvious subtext.[/quote] Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] Yeah, but for people who are smart and actually believe in a higher power, it is the equivalent of posting a pro -blam!- video at a predominately white school. It would seem offensive, and inconsiderate, and would lead the people who weren't white to feel discriminated against. It's not the best metaphor, but it'll do.
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More ridiculous materialist dogma.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people, I'm obviously going to provoke an argument, which is by definition two (or more) people trying to push their opinion on the other(s). Please, stop trying to be clever, stop searching for loopholes and technicalities. This is a criticism of religion, it's baiting a pointless flame war/e-argument, it should be locked. The end.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Stage_IV More ridiculous materialist dogma. [/quote] Dirty atheists and their dogmas. ^definitely not a massive contradiction^
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"God: A Reassuring Fable" ... Can we get some mods in here?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people, I'm obviously going to provoke an argument, which is by definition two (or more) people trying to push their opinion on the other(s). Please, stop trying to be clever, stop searching for loopholes and technicalities. This is a criticism of religion, it's baiting a pointless flame war/e-argument, it should be locked. The end.[/quote] Thank you. Please understand that I am standing up for the rights of everybody. If the thread was about how God is wonderful, and atheist of envoys on the devil, I'd be just as fervent in seeing it's removal.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] da mob boss12 "God: A Reassuring Fable" ... Can we get some mods in here?[/quote] I PM'd a few, but I guess they're all asleep..
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Love at Twilight [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Love at Twilight I really don't see why people go out of their way to bash religion. [/quote] I can, but regardless this thread is not bashing religion at all. [/quote] Not bashing per se, just subtle rejection of it.[/quote] Then what is the problem? Can we not agree to be un-offended by simple differing points of view?[/quote] There is no problem. It just seems a little uncivilized.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people, I'm obviously going to provoke an argument, which is by definition two (or more) people trying to push their opinion on the other(s). Please, stop trying to be clever, stop searching for loopholes and technicalities. This is a criticism of religion, it's baiting a pointless flame war/e-argument, it should be locked. The end.[/quote] Did you honestly just compare a lack of belief in god to racism? If you honestly think that someone stating their opinion is "trying to push their beliefs on others" then where does the problem reside?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Dude, I agree. I'd love to respectfully discuss it. Respect was lost the moment the OP linked videos that down right insulted anybody who believed in anything outside of science. It's wrong to do that to so many people, most of whom, have never done anything to deserve it.[/quote] Someone presenting a viewpoint that conflicts with you should not offend you. It would be another case, if the video explicitly criticized religions and called them all stupid or use profanity etc. If someone made a video about religion and why they believed in it and that non-believers may be punished, would I be offended? I would not and I don't think anyone should be offended.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people, I'm obviously going to provoke an argument, which is by definition two (or more) people trying to push their opinion on the other(s). Please, stop trying to be clever, stop searching for loopholes and technicalities. This is a criticism of religion, it's baiting a pointless flame war/e-argument, it should be locked. The end.[/quote] Did you honestly just compare a lack of belief in god to racism? If you honestly think that someone stating their opinion is "trying to push their beliefs on others" then where does the problem reside?[/quote] [u]I do not belong to a religion, I am simply trying to stand up for the rights of people who do[/u]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Dude, I agree. I'd love to respectfully discuss it. Respect was lost the moment the OP linked videos that down right insulted anybody who believed in anything outside of science. It's wrong to do that to so many people, most of whom, have never done anything to deserve it.[/quote] Someone presenting a viewpoint that conflicts with you should not offend you. It would be another case, if the video explicitly criticized religions and called them all stupid or use profanity etc. If someone made a video about religion and why they believed in it and that non-believers may be punished, would I be offended? I would not and I don't think anyone should be offended.[/quote] Well, unfortunately, you do not have the right to decide for everybody else, so it is your duty as a civilized human being to show enough respect towards your fellow man to not criticize their ideologies so harshly, in such a public way.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people, I'm obviously going to provoke an argument, which is by definition two (or more) people trying to push their opinion on the other(s). Please, stop trying to be clever, stop searching for loopholes and technicalities. This is a criticism of religion, it's baiting a pointless flame war/e-argument, it should be locked. The end.[/quote] Did you honestly just compare a lack of belief in god to racism? If you honestly think that someone stating their opinion is "trying to push their beliefs on others" then where does the problem reside?[/quote] [u]I do not belong to a religion, I am simply trying to stand up for the rights of people who do[/u][/quote] That post was not directed at you, I understand your predicament.
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I've always loved Sagan. [Edited on 05.22.2012 12:02 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] annoyinginge [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 Personally, I wouldn't say it is a direct attempt to change someone's mind. It is simply happened to be the title of the Youtube video. Ignoring that though, just because something implies a belief is false does not necessarily mean that it attempts to change the beliefs of another person. It simply presents a different viewpoint.[/quote] No. Just no. If I walk into a bar and loudly announce I hate black people, I'm obviously going to provoke an argument, which is by definition two (or more) people trying to push their opinion on the other(s). Please, stop trying to be clever, stop searching for loopholes and technicalities. This is a criticism of religion, it's baiting a pointless flame war/e-argument, it should be locked. The end.[/quote] Did you honestly just compare a lack of belief in god to racism? If you honestly think that someone stating their opinion is "trying to push their beliefs on others" then where does the problem reside?[/quote] [u]I do not belong to a religion, I am simply trying to stand up for the rights of people who do[/u][/quote] That post was not directed at you, I understand your predicament. [/quote] Ah.. well in that case... *ahem* So how about that Carl Sagan guy huh?
