{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
5/22/2012 6:57:26 AM
166
God: A Reassuring Fable (Carl Sagan)
After some positive responses from my previous threads (as well as tons of Sagan love), I've decided to post yet another link to a famous someone-or-other.
This time it happens to be the late, great Carl Sagan, famous Cosmologist and science educator. (1934-1996)
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtDjZ5TRQWI&feature=g-all-f]God: A Reassuring Fable.[/url]
What do you think of this video, and more generally, Sagan [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_sagan]himself[/url], Flood?
[Edited on 05.21.2012 10:57 PM PDT]
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I'm not arguing with you. You cannot tell people they are wrong about things you cannot prove without looking like an idiot.[/quote] Saying that there exists some idea that you cannot talk about because it "cannot be proved wrong" is an incredibly dangerous proposition. First off, your argument is initially flawed because it assumes that there are things that "cannot be proved wrong" which I do not necessarily accept. Regardless, holding such a view is incredibly closed minded and is an affront to all future knowledge. All ideas should be open to criticism so that they can grow, change, or die depending on their veracity. Otherwise our knowledge would simply stagnate. [quote][b]Your's is not the only idea or set of ideas to exist.[/b][/quote] I am not claiming that. In fact, I am 100% comfortable with my beliefs being criticized. If I found out that I was believing something that was wrong, I would turn on a -blam!- dime and change my beliefs. [Edited on 05.22.2012 12:50 AM PDT]
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer you have NO right to tell me I am wrong. [/quote] I disagree. Our beliefs are based on science, data, research, logic, and reason. Yours...are not, to say the least.[/quote] For the 4th time, I am not religious. I am simply standing up for the right for people to believe in what they want without being singled out and criticized. This thread is so against the rules of this forum, and yet, it's still up and going. I'm going to bed now. I've realized I wasted the last hour of my time when I discovered some people here lack reading comprehension skills.[/quote] Coming from the guy who can't comprehend that we can say whatever we want because of freedom of speech. QQ
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer you have NO right to tell me I am wrong. [/quote] I disagree. Our beliefs are based on science, data, research, logic, and reason. Yours...are not, to say the least.[/quote] For the 4th time, I am not religious.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious.[/quote]Pick one, broski. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I've realized I wasted the last hour of my time when I discovered some people here lack reading comprehension skills.[/quote] Perhaps your short term memory is the one that needs work.
-
I respect Sagan, but this is a blatantly religious thread that can (and does) come off as offensive. Reporting for mods : \
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer you have NO right to tell me I am wrong. [/quote] I disagree. Our beliefs are based on science, data, research, logic, and reason. Yours...are not, to say the least.[/quote] For the 4th time, I am not religious. I am simply standing up for the right for people to believe in what they want without being singled out and criticized. This thread is so against the rules of this forum, and yet, it's still up and going. I'm going to bed now. I've realized I wasted the last hour of my time when I discovered some people here lack reading comprehension skills.
-
Carl Sagan is so brilliant. Despite my faith, he is a complete genius, and I absolutely respect him 100%.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer you have NO right to tell me I am wrong. [/quote] I disagree. Our beliefs are based on science, data, research, logic, and reason. Yours...are not, to say the least.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [b]you have NO right to tell me I am wrong. [/b][/quote] Yes, I do! There is not such thing as a right to not be offended. How do you not understand that? Please watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tn2EhGK5ok]this[/url] [/quote] I'm not arguing with you. You cannot tell people they are wrong about things you cannot prove without looking like an idiot. Respect, young one, respect for others. Your's is not the only idea or set of ideas to exist.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I give up. I've got work in the morning. I stood up for the people who are being trampled in this thread[/quote] Again, I would like to emphasize, critiquing one's beliefs is a far cry from "trampling anyone". [quote] I tried to stand for your [b]rights[/b]tonight, and even though I took fire, I did so because we all have the right to our own beliefs, and all beliefs (Including a lack of any), should be reasonably respected.[/quote] I really would like to emphasize this. You have a right to believe what ever the hell you want. However, you do NOT have a right to NOT be offended by others. I am going to restate the latter: There is no such thing, and there should be never be such a thing, as a right to have your beliefs free from criticism.[/quote] Yes we do! We have the right to believe what ever we want. If it doesn't hurt you, or anybody else, you have NO right to tell me I am wrong. [/quote] 1st Amendment does. Also, beliefs do hurt people, because people ACT on their beliefs, and religious people use their religion as justification and an excuse to oppress people they don't like.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [b]you have NO right to tell me I am wrong. [/b][/quote] Yes, I do! There is no such thing as a right to not be offended. How do you not understand that? Please watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tn2EhGK5ok]this[/url] [Edited on 05.22.2012 12:38 AM PDT]
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I give up. I've got work in the morning. I stood up for the people who are being trampled in this thread[/quote] Again, I would like to emphasize, critiquing one's beliefs is a far cry from "trampling anyone". [quote] I tried to stand for your [b]rights[/b]tonight, and even though I took fire, I did so because we all have the right to our own beliefs, and all beliefs (Including a lack of any), should be reasonably respected.[/quote] I really would like to emphasize this. You have a right to believe what ever the hell you want. However, you do NOT have a right to NOT be offended by others. I am going to restate the latter: There is no such thing, and there should be never be such a thing, as a right to have your beliefs free from criticism.[/quote] Yes we do! We have the right to believe what ever we want. If it doesn't hurt you, or anybody else, you have NO right to tell me I am wrong.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I tried to stand for your rights tonight[/quote] What rights? You don't have a right to not be offended. You don't have a right to not be questioned about your beliefs. You don't have a right to not have your beliefs criticized, no matter how outlandish or reasonable they may seem to you or others. Questioning things and being critical of them is a healthy process.[/quote] You are assuming that nobody who is religious has ever questioned their beliefs. Yet, the most fervent of any belief system generally have histories of not believing. How many stories have you head of men and women suddenly becoming a member of a certain religious group? People question their ideas. They don't need others to do it for them. What rights do they have? The right to believe in something personally without having people demand they explain it, the right to respected as individuals despite their difference in opinions. The right as a human being to be who they want to be. I have not once said I am against your ideas, or anybody else's in this thread, and if the same respect had been returned to me, and the people who have (and have not) spoken, there wouldn't have been an issue.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I give up. I've got work in the morning. I stood up for the people who are being trampled in this thread[/quote] Again, I would like to emphasize, critiquing one's beliefs is a far cry from "trampling anyone". [quote] I tried to stand for your [b]rights[/b]tonight, and even though I took fire, I did so because we all have the right to our own beliefs, and all beliefs (Including a lack of any), should be reasonably respected.[/quote] I really would like to emphasize this. You have a right to believe what ever the hell you want. However, you do NOT have a right to NOT be offended by others. I am going to restate the latter: There is no such thing, and there should be never be such a thing, as a right to have your beliefs free from criticism. In other words, your beliefs do not have a right to be respected. People have the right to believe what they want, but that does not mean such beliefs have to be respected. [Edited on 05.22.2012 12:34 AM PDT]
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music I can't even begin to fathom the ignorance it requires to ignore all arguments and repeat the same bull-blam!- endlessly. [/quote] ...isn't that just called "religion"? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3Yo0HeFqGGc]BOOM[/url]
-
I can't even begin to fathom the ignorance it requires to ignore all arguments and repeat the same bull-blam!- endlessly.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer I tried to stand for your rights tonight[/quote] What rights? You don't have a right to not be offended. You don't have a right to not be questioned about your beliefs. You don't have a right to not have your beliefs criticized, no matter how outlandish or reasonable they may seem to you or others. Questioning things and being critical of them is a healthy process. [Edited on 05.22.2012 12:28 AM PDT]
-
I give up. I've got work in the morning. I stood up for the people who are being trampled in this thread, and so I think I've made an appropriate ethical decision. To all the people who calmly and logically discussed your opinion: Thank you, please breed as much as you desire, and raise your children with your teachings, they are obviously working. To all the people who were rude, inconsiderate, and intolerable: I wish you the best in life, and hope you don't live near me. To all the people whom are/would have been offended by this thread: I am really sorry that some people are as inconsiderate as they are. If it's any consolidation, I tried to stand for your rights tonight, and even though I took fire, I did so because we all have the right to our own beliefs, and all beliefs (Including a lack of any), should be reasonably respected.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? Not at all offensive is it? Nothing like implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there?[/quote] I like that this was sort of a scientific approach in favor of those with faith, but I don't really think much can be concluded from these data, anyway correlation isn't always causation, and what population did they sample anyway? If they did this study again I'm sure the results could vary significantly....
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gman5434 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? Not at all offensive is it? Nothing like implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there?[/quote] Lol. Who would get offended by the results of a study? Anyone that would be offended is rather pathetic. "The results of that disagree with how I view reality. You shouldn't be allowed to discuss it!" Additionally, that study did not"implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there" It actually said this: "I think it seems likely that a huge proportion of high functioning autistics are atheists, [b]but, that doesn't mean that a huge proportion of atheists are high functioning autistics[/b]"[/quote] I believe the phrase you're looking for is "correlation does not imply causation."
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Navweb3620 I haven't followed Sagan a lot, but from what I gather he's some type of influential speaker. That youtube video was pointless. All he does is ask questions, and never offers any conclusive evidence. So I fail to see how he is successful in influencing others. If anything, he is good at shaking people. Asking them questions outside of their comfort zone. He can get people to question their beliefs and practices. Which is good, because it leads to a more knowledgeable and disciplined society.[/quote] There is a difference between that, and getting into people's faces and saying "I am [insert ideology here], and if you are not of the same beliefs system as I am, you are a fool who is wrong, and I hope all people who share common ideas with you are wiped from Earth one day."
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? Not at all offensive is it? Nothing like implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there?[/quote] Lol. Who would get offended by the results of a study? Anyone that would be offended is rather pathetic. "The results of that disagree with how I view reality. You shouldn't be allowed to discuss it!" Additionally, that study did not"implying negative things about an entire group of people to upset somebody is there" It actually said this: "I think it seems likely that a huge proportion of high functioning autistics are atheists, [b]but, that doesn't mean that a huge proportion of atheists are high functioning autistics[/b]"
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MadMax888 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer Example: [quote] Atheism: Undiagnosed mental disorder? [/quote] [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/] Here[/url] Is an interesting piece of information I've recently found on the internet. It links Autism with Atheism. It's an interesting find, but honestly, It makes sense to me. Personally, it makes me glad I'm religious. Anybody else enjoy little connections like this? [/quote] Why is being able to think logically something you wish to disassociate yourself with?[/quote] Interesting point. Why would you ignore the logical reason I posted the example in favor of a "retort" with no weight behind it?[/quote] You consider yourself religious, yes? You believe in a deity or deities, correct? It's inherently illogical to believe something exists without proof of its existence. I don't mean to be insulting, but that's just the nature of faith.
-
You cannot prove it is true or untrue.
-
I haven't followed Sagan a lot, but from what I gather he's some type of influential speaker. That youtube video was pointless. All he does is ask questions, and never offers any conclusive evidence. So I fail to see how he is successful in influencing others. If anything, he is good at shaking people. Asking them questions outside of their comfort zone. He can get people to question their beliefs and practices. Which is good, because it leads to a more knowledgeable and disciplined society.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Giant Enemy Cat [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] lI Maverick lI Meh, all this looks like to me is a bunch of atheists flaunting "Ha, we don't believe in a god/gods, we're better than the rest of you!"[/quote]Well technically what you're saying is true. Atheists are simply sane, not necessarily intelligent, but at least putting them above the mentally diseased or brainwashed religious people. See, this post is offensive...you could say I'm being offensive and you'd be right, but I'm not bothered about hurting people's feelings over such trivial matters. I'm sure little children cry when they find out Santa Claus isn't real. The OP and all the posts before Cockland started posting were not. Typical.[/quote] Wow, that post was almost cool, until you had to show off your butthurt by calling me "Cockland" How is that insulting again?
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cortland_Brewer [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rational Music Alright Cortland, I'd like a specific quote from the video or my OP, explicitly showing what part of it was so offensive and inflammatory. [/quote] If you cannot see all the anti religion crammed into the OP, you shouldn't be watching videos about science.[/quote] I'm serious. Personally, I find nothing about the video or the OP offensive, so I'd like to see the part of it that you see as offensive. [/quote] It doesn't offend me, however, it implies that people need religion, and basically discards ideas that people have spent their entire lives adhering to as a "Security Blanket" going so far as to say "Maybe one day, we'll grow up and won't need it." That is a very unfair thing to say.[/quote] It's also very truthful. Even if it does offend some, the accuracy of the statement does not change.
