[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XGL Venom I've got two opinions, one that fits the two different sides of this argument: The first is on how fun it is to play, and to that effect I would like to say that yes, it IS fun. But then just about anything is. I've seen people spend hours blowing the -blam!- out of each other in the green box above The Pit in a 16 player rocket launcher fest. FUN does not dictate good MAP DESIGN. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The second is in regard to how it stands up as a competitive map. And here I would like to say no. There are no lines of sight anywhere, the battles are isolated and discourage teamwork, and the close quarters battle it promotes does nothing but increase the use of melee, an atrocious mechanic that takes little to no skill (you don't even have to LOOK at them) and does way to much damage for its ease of use. The OP is right. As long as you casuals out there keep in mind that he's merely talking of its competitive value. Don't take offense at his criticism; I agree that the map is neatly polished and well constructed. He, as well as many others within this community, are disappointed that Bungie could not make a map that is fun (which is easy to do since the requirements for fun could be as simple as a small square box) and still design around the intricacies of a competitive map. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Lockout vs. Blackout As a competitive map, Blackout has eliminated sight lines throughout the segments of the map. This is to say that the risk of traveling through shortcuts rather than the long way around has been reduced, and the prospect of long range assistance is destroyed, leaving teamwork and strategy in shambles. Each battle is isolated to its location, and once again close quarters battle, the least skillful type in the game, reigns. Blackout has also cut down on the routes a player can take. The reduction of paths leads to more predictable gameplay, more camping, and overall makes the map more stale. Lockout was loved for its variation and the perfect balance of risk vs reward, shortcut vs safe route, et cetera. For example, the path of travel between BR tower and Snipes was short, but the route between those areas (top-mid) guaranteed you to be shot at. Blackout put up a fence thing to make the risk lower and isolate gameplay. Now I will ask you, why? Do any of you believe removing these rails, improving the sightlines, and keeping the shortcuts would reduce the fun to be had on that map? I would guess the answer to be no. I feel that Bungie has overestimated the requirements of a fun map, and the competitive balance has suffered as a result. This example can be used to explain what makes a map competitively good, and what doesn't. -------------------------------------------------------------------- TL;DR. Go play a swords game on blackout, then one on lockout. Do you feel a difference in the amount of [i]fun[/i] you had? Probably not. Now go play MLG Slayer on each of these maps. Do you notice a difference? Definately. Bungie did not have to do this, but for some reason, they catered to the casual community who probably didn't notice the changes. EDIT: Read some of the previous posts. Many of you seem to be obsessed with the [i]majority[/i] opinion, whilst that has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand. Remember, there are two sides to this: casual and competitive. Keep in mind not everyone enjoys holding forward, mashing LT and RT and B until you die, and laughing at the flying bodies.[/quote] You see, its all in the details. The little things that make or break a map. (lockout vs blackout). As he said, the casual community will never take the time to learn and take advantage of the intricacies of a map, so it will never matter to them. However, for skilled players this map presents a huge issue. Skilled players are not only taking advantage of the map, they are setting up their teammates in positions that compliment eachother, they are timing weapon respawns and counting how many shots left the opponent has in his laser, they are looking where there teammates are and predicting where the next opponent spawn will be. None of this is even important on orbital. The only strategy one can take is flank your opponent, or go in as a team gangbang. For the casual gamer this is fun, but for most anyone else its same old same old. Maps need to cater to BOTH styles. Not one or the other. Thats why the map FAILS.