Hylebos i understand what you mean but at the same time i understand ArtooFeva's point as well.If you AL and yet a sticky still kills you, how do they justify a tank shell not killing you or a vehicle when i grenade can still kill you. That is what i think he is aiming at

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zomechin Yes, overpowered. A grenade that doesn't bounce at all and has a small radius. Heaven forbid it has an attribute such as sticking. Jeez, the plasma grenades are already easily avoidable beforehand, and now we have another chance to avoid them [i]after[/i] they've successful stuck someone? [/quote]What if I'm looking the other way or I blink? They aren't very easy to dodge then. It's BS if you think that just because the dust particles where I live are heavier and in greater numbers than the ones by you, you think you should have some sort of advantage. Ridiculous. Just because my eyes aren't made of steel you think you should get these insta-kills that don't even take any skill? Come on.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] burritosenior There's no reason why Sticky Grenades need to be overpowered by guaranteeing a kill when they touch someone[/quote] Yes, overpowered. A grenade that doesn't bounce at all and has a small radius. Heaven forbid it has an attribute such as sticking. Jeez, the plasma grenades are already easily avoidable beforehand, and now we have another chance to avoid them [i]after[/i] they've successful stuck someone? Come on.

Too bad you wasted this awesome post on AL lovers.

[quote]Again, I don't care so much about getting kills. I want to feel rewarded when I do successfully stick someone. There's no reason why Armor Lock needs an overpowered counter like Plasma Grenade Shedding to be balanced, so by all means, it should be removed.[/quote]And I want to feel epic when you stick me and I don't die. There's no reason why Sticky Grenades need to be overpowered by guaranteeing a kill when they touch someone, so by all means, they should be removed. :P

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat You should submit this to the comm chatter. [/quote] Hah, wouldn't that be nice to increase traffic to this thread? Maybe then I'll finish replying to everyone halfway into summer! It will never happen though, if Urk features my thread in the Comm Chatter, every dude and his uncle will spam the Comm Chatter submission asking for their threads to be featured. I mean, your Think Twice thingy that made the Chatter was at least a community oriented beta feedback thread. This is just a one man essay. There's no chance. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Brian OA [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat You should submit this to the comm chatter. [/quote] You should replace urk.[/quote] Such Nonsense. It's not like I would be able to give the community any more information than he is allowed to post in the weekly updates. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArtooFeva Sir, while I like you as a member that is simply too long a read. I'm just going to go with saying that I personally do not see shedding as a big problem because without it armor lock would do nothing at all except prevent you from moving at all.[/quote] That's not true in the slightest. The removal of Plasma Grenade Shedding means that players would have to Armor Lock before the Plasma Grenade sticks them or else they will die regardless of whether or not they are in Armor Lock when the grenade goes off. To say that Armor Lock would be made worthless with the removal of this one tiny feature is saying that Armor Lock is worthless against Rockets, Melees, and Vehicle Splatters because you can't survive those attacks after they have hit you. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Al B Querky Nice read. Although I'd like to challenge you on a couple of aspects. Armor lock is a one button escape, that much is true. But the same can be said about evade versus a frag. Typically in Halo, well placed grenades can do wonders and get kills effectively. But even in reach, one can simply evade out of the way. Wouldn't that be the same as armor locking after being stuck? Let's assume that in both situations that the frag was dead on its target and would be the type to be a kill, and the sticky grenade was stuck for what is normally a guaranteed kill. How is armor locking out of stick different from evading out of a well placed frag?[/quote] There's a large difference between evading away from a frag and Armor Locking to shed a Plasma Grenade. A major difference between the two situation would be the types of fuse that each grenade uses. As established in the original post, Plasma Grenades arm themselves only when they stick an opponent or come to rest on the ground, so no matter how I stick an opponent, he will always have a full second to Armor Lock and survive. The frag grenade however arms it's second long fuse on it's first bounce. In my mind, a well placed frag grenade not only needs to be dead on target, but it also needs to have very little time left on it's fuse as well. By properly bouncing your frag grenade into your opponent, you can minimize the period of time that he has to evade and live. Not to mention, although frag grenades are overt by design so that players will see and hear them coming as they bounce along the ground, they don't alert the user nearly as much as a stuck Plasma Grenade does. Nor do they give the opponent a full extra second to react to the grenade in addition to the time it takes for the grenade to reach the target. ...Does that make sense? Both defense mechanisms are button presses, yes, but at least with frag grenades you have some degree of control over whether or not you kill him. And if you do it properly, if he does escape, he will be severely crippled from the splash damage. Meanwhile, with Plasma Grenade Shedding no matter how you do it you have no control over how successful your stick attempt will be. It's all up to whether or not the Armor Locker is out of power or if he is completely oblivious. And you can't count on either of those happening every time you launch a stick. There's no reason why surviving a Plasma Grenade Attack should be that mind dumbingly easy. I will say however though that I'm not quite convinced that Evade should be in gametypes without Elites. It's a lot more powerful than Sprint, and it's a bit silly to give the player the option to use both as a result. [quote]Secondly, you mention a few times the window a plasma grenade has before it detonates. You said one second. It sounds like a lot of time, but to a normal player, thats not enough. Granted, the average reaction time of a person is roughly 250ms, but that's only if they're anticipating a change. So with that, it doesn't leave much success with people who like doing it the more direct approach; but you also mention being sneaky about sticking. I believe that being sneaky works more times than not against a known armor locker. While 250ms is not a lot of time, and again, that's just an average and also takes note that it is when anticipating something to happen, however, it's not realistic for someone in the middle of a game. You'll get variations of reactions depending on the readiness (or paranoia..) of the player, but realistically I'd expect someone to react around 3-5 times the average time. That's just my take on it anyway, and I'm not saying anything against your argument because I know it happens from time to time. It's just fun to challenge a person's argument :)[/quote] I dunno, people can be suprisingly perceptive when it comes to surviving [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5cadlUnBa4]attacks that they don't see coming[/url]. It just seems like more often than not no matter how sneaky you are they will notice and shed your Plasma Grenade. The only time I get sticks against Armor Lockers is when they are out of power or in the heaviest of fighting where they are distracted by everything else going on. I don't think Plasma Grenades should be weapons reserved only for use when your opponent is sufficiently distracted. If you successfully stick them, you should get a kill. [quote]Me personally, I would like it if armor lock could be countered by a plasma grenade. Since the plasma grenade was already stuck, it should become trapped inside an armor lock, killing the user. That's my point of view anyway. [/quote] I wouldn't so much call Plasma Grenades a counter against Armor Lock as they are no more effective than bullets or rockets, but yes, if the Armor Locker is stuck before entering Armor Lock, he should definitely remain stuck and he should definitely die. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] imagelessJAKE hey look a counter for armor lock i found geuss what it is called... Anticipation sounds neat right now here is the thing. Make them go into armor lock then when they are moments from coming out throw one at their feet watch them pop and the explode in a blue ball of death... an answer to a small book with a small paragraph isnt the world great[/quote] Again, I don't care so much about getting kills. I want to feel rewarded when I do successfully stick someone. There's no reason why Armor Lock needs an overpowered counter like Plasma Grenade Shedding to be balanced, so by all means, it should be removed. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Queso Man Hylebos, please publish this novelette and mail it to Bungie Studios. Or kindly drop it on their doorstep. It was a great read [/quote] I do normally live within 20 minutes of Bungie studios... shame that I'm up in College at the moment. I dunno, I'm afraid that Jerome would murder me with a Gravity Hammer or something... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Overpowered AR I look at plasma shedding like having the ability to evade AFTER you've been hit by a rocket and not get hurt. It's just stupid. Even more stupid then the rest of AL's attributes because atleast those you have to do BEFORE the other player's action which brings an inherent risk and balance.[/quote] This is a good way of looking at Plasma Grenade Shedding. I was initially going to base my entire thread around an arguement like this when I started making it in October / November, but I decided that it wasn't extensive enough of an analogy to be the center piece of the thread, and I eventually dropped it out. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] angello22 I support this totally. I recomend you to post this on the Waypoint and 343 forums ASAP. This needs to be listened. I think I'll start making more armor lock hate threads just to remind everyone just how broken this mechanic is, in hopes of not getting it ever again in any future game, either Halo or any other FPS out there. Invincibility at the press of a button is just wrong.[/quote] You're welcome to post it in the Waypoint forums as long as you link it back to Bnet in some fashion. I'm too lazy to do it, and as I've said before, those barbarians don't have Spiker Avatars. [quote]I might start practicing my plasma skills. Any tips you can give me? :)[/quote] I don't think I'm good enough with Plasma Grenades to the point where I can give out advice on the topic... Just practice with them a lot and get down the gut feeling for sticking? [quote][/quote] Chugging right along! That's all for now folks.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General_Rafa Great thread. I myself am an Armor Lock enthusiast and defender, however Sticky Grenades are a favorite past-time I picked up from Halo 3. I think shedding could reasonably be removed from Armor Lock, but you should still remain invulnerable from the blast if it detonates while you're in Armor Lock. For example: if you are stickied and you enter Armor Lock, if you pop out of Armor Lock before the sticky grenade detonates, you will most likely die. However, if you hold Armor Lock long enough, the sticky grenade will explode on you, retaining that invincibility that's meant to be a permanent and non-negotiable feature in Armor Lock.[/quote]That really doesn't solve the problem. All that does is require the AL user to stay in an extra second, which most people are probably doing already. It still takes away a well-earned kill.

Great thread. I myself am an Armor Lock enthusiast and defender, however Sticky Grenades are a favorite past-time I picked up from Halo 3. I think shedding could reasonably be removed from Armor Lock, but you should still remain invulnerable from the blast if it detonates while you're in Armor Lock. For example: if you are stickied and you enter Armor Lock, if you pop out of Armor Lock before the sticky grenade detonates, you will die unless you go into Armor Lock again right afterwards. However, if you hold Armor Lock long enough, the sticky grenade will explode on you, retaining that invincibility that's meant to be a permanent and non-negotiable feature in Armor Lock. [Edited on 04.26.2011 2:20 PM PDT]

Bump. Drowned by "omg al is OP"

Umm, OP. I just need to poke a hole in your gloriously written wall. You can survive a stick in any halo if the detonation occurs while an overshield is charging up. Like. 1) Get stuck 2) Pick up shield 3) jooooooooooot recharge sound 4) boom 5) profit. Other than that, very naice. I believe that Al was put in to counter grenade spam and vehicles. So, you need to realize that you can't completely kill it. I like your idea about point blank sticks though. [Edited on 04.25.2011 7:49 PM PDT]

Awesome thread, perfectly written. Armor Lock has always been a problem for me (really every armor ability has). You have just proven why this one is not fair in every way. Experiences like what you described should not be ruined due to an easy-to-use ability which takes one click. Halo is defined by the crazy things in it and these things never should have changed because Bungie wanted to appeal to a more casual group. I miss the old plasma grenades and hope that one day Bungie/343 will make a much needed title update. [Edited on 04.25.2011 7:34 PM PDT]

WHOA. *saved* Will read tomorrow. I can already tell you that I agree though.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Drowsy Demon[/quote] Like Hylebos said, localized solutions for localized problems. Getting rid of Armor Lock doesn't fix the Plasma Shedding attribute it has in-game.

I agree, Plasma grenade sticking is just one of those iconic features thats been around since the beginning, and giving to ability to shed it with just the push of one button is like pissing on something holy

Arena. Makes things stick where they need to stick.

I suppose it's a moot point that you can still stick armor locker's while their in armor lock. The need gets thrown off them a half second after it sticks them... So if you time it right you can still stick people. Although as an Armor locker myself, I have to say that I believe the idea of making the plasma grenades have an activation range is the way to go. Personally I prefer dodging plasmas or any nades really, after all they aren't hard to predict unless lag intervenes. Admittedly I will drop into lock if I do get stuck by suiciders, spammers or some others. But usually you get stuck in a firefight and dropping into lock just shafts you and leads to your death. Not worth the aggro to deal with the sticky really.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos I'd also like to thank all the annoying bastards on my friend list that continuously pestered me about the progress on my thread and spurred me out of laziness to complete this monstrosity. Especially the ones who frequently whored Armor Lock during custom games.... [/quote]LOL! You're welcome :) OT: Great read. I feel that plasma grenade shedding has a spot in Halo that it deserves and it was taken out of Halo Reach. It only makes sense that armor lockers should have to anticipate their surroundings and predict when a plasma grenade wielder will arm to stick them. It makes no sense that players can wander around a map freely with no fear of the "instant blue ball of death" sticking them. Reverting back to the Halo 2 map "Midship", where players would spawn with Plasma Grenades and there was no changing that in the custom game options. If you take a look at old MLG videos of Halo 2 on Midship, you will see the huge discussions regarding Plasma Grenades in MLG on Halo 2. Reach is a different game yes, but its still [i]Halo[/i] at its core. There should be feature of this game that are integrated simply because its a [i]Halo[/i] game. While Bungie talked about during the Pre-Beta phase, they didn't want to "Rough up andybodys baby." Yep, the didn't but this is just one feature that has been roughed up and should be changed. After all, having a big flying "blue ball of death" sticking you in the face should be the worst way to die, regardless of whether you have armor lock or not :P Great Job Hyle, PS: I'll be sure to bug you more in the custom game lobbies about your thread when I get on Xbox later!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat hey Hyle. Would it make yeou happy if you could send out your hologram once you were stuck so the hologram could absorb the grenade? :P [/quote] Better yet, the energy sword should slice grenades and neutralize them.

hey Hyle. Would it make yeou happy if you could send out your hologram once you were stuck so the hologram could absorb the grenade? :P

Good Job. *sheds tear*

A well thought out argument from a well thought out man.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Admonitor [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgingWhite Fire I think what he is getting at is that if a sticky kills you in AL, how does it make sense for a tank shell or a frag grenade not kill you so that would end up changed and AL would be a let the enemy kill me because AL does nothing button[/quote] I think you misunderstood the point of the post there friend. OP isn't asking for stickies to kill someone if they are already in AL; but if they fail to get out of the way or don't AL up in time then they are dead. [/quote] Okay I'm jumping into the discussion now, but I think AgingWhite Fire brings up a fair point. The OP in this case is asking for Plasma Grenades to kill an Armor Lock user if said Armor Lock user is stuck with a plasma grenade before he activates his ability. The reasoning for this is irrelevant, that is what the OP is asking for. However, you have to consider that Armor Lock as an ability was meant for this. "Meant for what?" You might ask me. Meant for avoiding death and granting you temporary invincibility, that's what. However, implementing this nerf would run completely contrary to the Armor Ability's purpose. Armor Lock can deflect frag grenades, deflect rockets, survive sniper rifle headshots, and pretty much postpone or avoid every single element of gameplay that causes a player to die. When you say that Armor Lock shouldn't get rid of sticky grenade shedding, then why stop there? Why not take out the whole "invinciblity" portion off the AA? Why not just get rid of it completely?

Look I feel your pain...I stuck 2 people within seconds of each other just to watch both of them use AL... With that being said THIS IS NOT HALO 1-3.... i dont want to sound like a broken record...but just adapt..I use stickies for people who are not ALing and I use frags on people who are in AL...throw them at the feet to either keep them in AL and waste it or to Kill their team who is coming... I read your post and I agree with it 100%.. I stick people all the time and they AL out of it and it saddens me ...but I just tell myself this is Reach...there are better ways to kill people ...that I should have not used a sticky and I should have used a weapon to kill them....or forced them into AL...now i know it shouldnt be that way in a Halo game...but it is :/ Until changes are made, if ever just adjust your strategy accordingly.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat Great post buddy. I'm glad you were finally able to post this. Although I shared many of the same views with you already, you definitely helped me to understand a few things better. Simply put, Plasma Grenade Shedding sacrifices too much on plasma grenades and gives AL an advantage that it already has. Plasma Grenades require timing and precision to use affectively. Holding armor lock as soon as your screen turns blue does not. It's nothing more than the same reflex you get when a bug lands on your arm. Now I'm not saying your arm is overpowered to that bug; that isn't where the analogy is going. What I am saying though is that the grenade had effort put into it. When it lands on you, you know that you worked for that kill. Can you imagine if vehicles could lock up and prevent us from sticking them? This change, along with a nerf to its duration and EMP/frosting are what I'd like to see made to Armor Lock. In the end, you can still stop splatters, still block melees, and still block grenades and rockets. I don't see why AL needs to be anything else. It's reasons like these why I don't even use the Plasma Launcher anymore. Not only has it been nerfed, but now people know that AL is an absolute counter against it. Useless in Invasion. Useless in Elite Slayer. [/quote] Whenever i play invasion and choose the operator class i always forget i have armor lock and when i press the button the plasma grenade explodes and i die. I feel like such a fail whenever i use armor lock anywya,

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat Great post buddy. I'm glad you were finally able to post this. Although I shared many of the same views with you already, you definitely helped me to understand a few things better. Simply put, Plasma Grenade Shedding sacrifices too much on plasma grenades and gives AL an advantage that it already has. Plasma Grenades require timing and precision to use affectively. Holding armor lock as soon as your screen turns blue does not. It's nothing more than the same reflex you get when a bug lands on your arm. Now I'm not saying your arm is overpowered to that bug; that isn't where the analogy is going. What I am saying though is that the grenade had effort put into it. When it lands on you, you know that you worked for that kill. Can you imagine if vehicles could lock up and prevent us from sticking them? This change, along with a nerf to its duration and EMP/frosting are what I'd like to see made to Armor Lock. In the end, you can still stop splatters, still block melees, and still block grenades and rockets. I don't see why AL needs to be anything else. It's reasons like these why I don't even use the Plasma Launcher anymore. Not only has it been nerfed, but now people know that AL is an absolute counter against it. Useless in Invasion. Useless in Elite Slayer. [/quote] I agree completely. Plasma grenade shedding practically nullifies the usefulness and fun of the grenades. It's one of Reach's many crutches that promotes unskilled gameplay.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] B9Liberator 3. Doesn't blow up vehicles, but instead flips them. I have yet to see this discussed, but feel that it would be a worthy addition. Since the Banshee is flight based, it should still explode, but to ground-based vehicles the person in Al should act as a ramp of sorts. [/quote] The entire instant vehicle destruction mechanic would be my second biggest gripe about Armor Lock. Unfortunately I don't think the feature is likely to change thanks to the "Poppin' & Lockin'" achievement. Personally I agree with your suggestion, but it should also paralyze the vehicle and perhaps damage it slightly (I wonder if they would be able to make the change if it was still possible to get the achievement if the splattering vehicle was very damaged?) as it ramps off the Armor Locker. It is a bit more risky for the Armor Locker, but the payoff is larger if their team mates succeed in killing the vehicle's operators as they will now have a slightly used vehicle to go around and kill people with instead of a kill and a large pile of twisted metal. And it adds to the chaos of the game in traditional Halo fashion and makes the prospects of dying as a result of splattering an Armor Locker a lot more enjoyable for vehicle operators. I mean, cmon, at least give us the illusion that if we coordinate with our team mates that we will be able to survive splattering an Armor Locker. As it is now, you're only convincing us to stay back and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=14553378]use our vehicles in a way that you can't counter with Armor Lock.[/url] If there is even a slightest chance that I would be able to get away unscathed from splattering an Armor Locker I would take the risk each and every time. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Razes all One thing you forgot to mention. What about firefight? For example: When I play Gruntpocalypse the only load out I use is Armor Lock. Sometimes those sneaky Grunts manage to get a lucky stick when I'm not paying attention. That to me is what I like about plasma shedding. That's the only thing you can use Armor Lock for in this situation. A full Armor Lock guarantees certain death from either Grunts spamming Plasma Grenades or Fuel Rod Grunts waiting patiently for you to run out of Armor Lock. [/quote] I don't care so much if you shed a Grunt's Plasma Grenade in Firefight or Campaign, I really only care about Multiplayer when it comes to Plasma Grenade Shedding. That being said, I imagine that there would sort of be a gray area in Firefight Versus where Player Controlled Elites would stick the opposing Spartans who would be able to shed the attacks, but as I don't really play a ton of Firefight Versus I don't particularly care so much >_> [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SoleHalberdier The idea of this is good. No, it's fantastic. The one area that I see a bit of controversy so to speak is this: You don't have to stick the guy to kill him with a plasma grenade. Which brings up this point- If they do the same damage (sticking and close range splash) why have the ability to be protected from one and not the other? I don't know about you or the rest of these forum-goers, but that seems a bit....wrong. I'm not saying that it isn't a good idea, but logically it wouldn't make sense to be able to survive 1 thing but not another. This point brings up the "Well then make it that you die from both" which leads to "Taking damage while in armor lock" which finally leads to "Take out Armor Lock." I'm racking my brain now for a decent solution to this dilemna, but I can't seem to find one. Point in case, this change would have to come with something of, so to speak, equal or greater value. This would probably lead to (DON'T JUDGE ME ON THIS THIS IS JUST WHAT CAME TO ME) "Sapping shields when coming out of Armor Lock." Hmm, I think I'll post about that last topic, but that's beside the point. Hopefully someone will take the time to read this little post before it gets lost in the pages. [/quote] If you fail to stick your opponent and then he enters Armor Lock to avoid the splash damage from the grenade, he should definitely live, even if he walks on top of the grenade and then armor locks. Anything else would just be unfair for the Armor Locker. Now this all depends on exactly how Bungie has coded Plasma Grenades and Armor Lock, but it seems clear to me that they can tell the difference between someone who has been killed by a Plasma Grenade Stick and someone who has been killed by the Splash Damage from a Plasma Grenade as you get a medal for the former action and no medal for the latter action. Seems like all that is required is an If statement. If the Armor Locker is stuck, then Armor Lock doesn't protect the user from the damage delt by that Plasma Grenade. Else, damage is absorbed as usual. I don't see why removing Plasma Grenade Shedding would allow for Armor Lockers to die from splash damage while they are in Armor Lock. It makes perfect sense, in one case the shield would form around the Grenade that is stuck to your body and would be woefully ineffective at protecting you, in the other case, the shield forms normally and the external splash damage is absorbed. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Asmileface Cool thread, but you're a day late.[/quote] For background reference for people who don't converse with me often in private groups, I made myself a goal to post this thread exactly a year after I had posted my [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=43213464]Spiker Thread[/url]. Regardless, your assertion is nonsense. I started posting my Spiker thread on May 23rd, 2010 at 4:51 PM PDT. I finished posting this thread on May 24th, 2011 at 4:49 PM PDT. While it's not "exactly" a year after I posted my Spiker Thread, it's definitely before a "Year and a Day" of posting my Spiker Thread, so rounding down it still counts as "exactly a year later." [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgingWhite Fire Hylebos, that does clear a few things up except for one thing a melee is something a player always has and every player has it so it is fairly easy to figure out if they are running up to you that they plan to melee you and you can backpedal or shotgun or use some strategy against them. The Same thing applies to a degree with the Sword, i mean not everyone spawns with ti but even when Sprinting the sword is drawn so you can see it and know they plan to make you into chop suey. however the plasma grenade you cant tell just by looking at them that they plan to stick you. Sticking is the only one of the three that if you get out of swinging range can still kill you.[/quote] I still think that wheeling around your opponent as you approach him or he approaches you will always help to make his Plasma Grenade miss. With a bit of caution this problem is minimalized. And if Point Blank Sticks are still a problem, I encourage you to pursue the solution that I presented in the Original Post. Or perhaps all that needs to be done is slightly increase the time spent in the "winding up for the throw" animation to give players more of a chance to see the attack coming and prepare accordingly. It's still not an issue that is best solved with Plasma Grenade Shedding. [quote]Something else i noticed is in most anti AL threads, people claim that AL is instant when in fact it has a small delay before it is effective. This i know from personal experience trying to destroy a splattering ghost and it splattering me after i hit the AL. My body flips like it was splattered then AL activates for a second as my body lies on the ground [/quote] From my personal testing on a local Xbox, the effects did seem instantaneous. Perhaps you were experiencing a bit of lag when that ghost splattered you as you entered Armor Lock? Regardless, the effects of Armor Lock are definitely more instantaneous than any of the other abillities, so I think my point still stands. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sh1n1ng Wolf I'd also like to see AAs be blatantly visible on a player's body as shown in this: [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos [url=http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab249/Hylebosaiden/Pre-BetaArmorlock.jpg]Halo Reach Alpha[/url][/quote] picture. There's no reason to have all of the AAs except Jet Pack be kept secret until they're used. Weapons aren't like that because it's easy to see what someone is holding or has on their back/leg.[/quote] Wouldn't that be nice? When I first saw Armor Lock I thought that it was really cool mostly because it looked so awesome on that Spartan's back. I was so sad when they shrunk it down to the silly-red-square-in-the-small-of-your-back form. I think the game would be a lot cooler (and more fair) if every Armor Abillity had it's own unique back module. It doesn't quite need to be huge and overt, just something big enough to alter the profile of the Spartan to help players identify what they are in for. [quote][/quote] That's all for now folks. Off to lunch. I hear they have catfish. I'll reply more this evening.