Not that it'll ever change, but I've always liked the idea that if you AL'ing while stuck, it should simply seal in the explosion. Still kills you, but as the logic of AL works along the lines of your spartan being enveloped in an invincibility shield, the sticky should likewise be encased with you. By process of that, you still die, but you can mitigate the splash damage to Bro's in the vicinity if you decide to take one for the team instead of using that last split second to try and score a kill. I suppose it depends on your disposition to the matter. Personally I'd be quite pleased with the removal of plasma shedding completely, but my middle ground seems like a nice alternative in my head; I like stuff that rewards team-orientated decisions, even at the cost to the player.

Have you tried covering your plasma grenades in PVA to make them stick better to armor lockers?

i think AR is the best and its grate been able to knock off the plasm when you knock it off you feel grate and invicable

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos There are just as many scenarios where you can't avoid bullets or rockets, yet you don't see any overpowered defensive mechanisms singling those weapons out and crushing them mercilessly like Plasma Grenade Shedding does to Plasma Grenades (oh wait, there's the Sword Block). There already is a way to block Plasma Grenades, to defend against them. It's called Armor Lock, and it doesn't need Plasma Grenade Shedding to accomplish that job. And it's not the only way either. I use Hologram, which posesses no evasive or shielding abillities, and even I don't have a problem dodging most Plasma Grenades. What scenarios are there in which people can't avoid an incoming Plasma Grenade that isn't shared with every other weapon? [/quote] There is a difference between a shot with a DMR and a one shot kill weapon. There is a difference between a weapon that spawns in one place on the map and in 3 minute intervals and a weapon that spawns in multiple places in 10 second intervals. There is a difference between seeing someone shoot you with a rocket and seeing someone pull a plasma grenade almost literally out of their ass and stick you in the face. And actually, you can avoid getting into scenarios where you can't avoid getting killed by the said OSK weapons that only have one spawn on the map and are easily visible on the player but how am I supposed to avoid plasma nades? Never engage someone at close to mid range? I know not to run into a room being camped by a shotgun wielder, I know not to get into a close-mid range DMR battle with a rocket launcher and I know not to stand in give or take the same place when in a sniper's line of sight but what am I supposed to do against plasma nades? I have no idea if my opponent has them and they're basically rockets with a longer detonation time and a curved flight path.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Trolling Spree What if plasma grenades instant-exploded when they stick to something? No chance to AL.[/quote] That would be a terrible solution. The reason why I love Plasma Grenades so much is the hilarity that is caused when you stick someone in the face and you get to watch them freak out for a second before they explode and die. While making Plasma Grenades explode on contact definitely would get around Plasma Grenade Shedding, it would sacrifice the very heart and soul of the Plasma Grenade simply so that we can get kills. At that point, it wouldn't be a Plasma Grenade, it would be more like the Rocket Launcher, and frankly, that's boring! So no. Plasma Grenade Shedding should still definitely die. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SD2522 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Razz_Pitazz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SD2522 How is it fair to make Plasma Grenades the exception to the rule of Armor Lock? I could go into why Armor Lock is unbalanced and abused by users but with this situation Armor Lock is behaving as intended. The Sticky is neutralized and sent off a distance to (ideally) cause as little damage as possible.[/quote] it is not the exception by far it's all about timing. A player can still die despite activating AL if they activate it too late. Rockets, grenades, head shots, swords etc can all hurt and kill a player who has activated AL even a fraction of a second too late. It only makes sense that since a sticky sticks, it should stay stuck. Activating AL late doesn't [b]negate a rockets splash damage, it shouldn't negate adhesives.[/b][/quote] That's two different things you're talking about. Rocket damage and it's splash are instant, stickies take a second to detonate when stuck. It's not my fault I don't have to react as quickly to something that's been pretty much consistent in the series as it's not my fault a new mechanic changes the way the game is played. So again, why should Stickies be the exception to the rule?[/quote] I believe I've extensively covered why Plasma Grenade Shedding is unfair in the original post. Again, Stickies should be the exception to the Definition of Armor Lock because that way the game is much more fair for both sides. I understand that Plasma Grenade Shedding was a deliberate design decision on Bungie's part, but that doesn't excuse the fact that Plasma Grenade Shedding is both overpowered and unneccessary. Plasma Grenades shouldn't be taken advantage of by Armor Lock just because they have a second long delay before they explode. It's not there is any advantage to letting your opponent live for an extra second before they die, so please, don't take advantage of that with Plasma Grenade Shedding. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Z4KU II I'll admit now that I did NOT read the entirety of the original 4 posts... after playing halo classic, I'm SO grateful for AL being in the game! I'm sick and tired of grenade-spammers and AL gives me the option to nullify that annoyance! it also stops those pesky people that back in Halo 3 would only run up to you and stick your face and ONLY stick your face. I'm all for armor lock and it's current condition! (and for those that never played the beta, AL was seriously OP!!)[/quote] It's a shame that you didn't read my original post fully. Most of post three was written specifically for people like you. I understand quite well that some people don't like Plasma Grenades because of Plasma Grenade Spam or Point Blank Sticks, but Plasma Grenades as a whole shouldn't be sacrificed by Plasma Grenade Shedding to solve those two problems. I presented two solutions to those problems that targets only the problem areas of the Plasma Grenades and leaves the normal useage of the Plasma Grenade unaffected. I encourage you to read that part of my thread to see if those solutions would be a good enough substitute for Plasma Grenade Shedding. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos ... -_- How would it add a whole new level of skill or complexity to Plasma Grenade Sticking? As outlined in the original post, there's nothing I can do to ensure that my Plasma Grenade kills my target so long as Plasma Grenade Shedding is around, making it so that everyone can shed Plasma Grenades only makes the problem worse for Plasma Grenade fans. Why can't Plasma Grenades be nerfed directly if they are overpowered, as I suggested in the original post? [/quote] The problem with plasma nades is that there are so many scenarios that you can stick someone without them being able to avoid it at all, there needs to be a way to block plasma grenades, to defend against them.[/quote] There are just as many scenarios where you can't avoid bullets or rockets, yet you don't see any overpowered defensive mechanisms singling those weapons out and crushing them mercilessly like Plasma Grenade Shedding does to Plasma Grenades (oh wait, there's the Sword Block). There already is a way to block Plasma Grenades, to defend against them. It's called Armor Lock, and it doesn't need Plasma Grenade Shedding to accomplish that job. And it's not the only way either. I use Hologram, which posesses no evasive or shielding abillities, and even I don't have a problem dodging most Plasma Grenades. What scenarios are there in which people can't avoid an incoming Plasma Grenade that isn't shared with every other weapon? [quote]The good thing about my suggestion is that it gives people the ability to block plasma grenades but also makes it so you need good reflexes and awareness in order to do it without getting yourself killed.[/quote] Actually no. That's not true at all. Again, as I outlined extensively in my original post, giving my opponents an extra full second to survive an attack after alerting them to the fact that they are stuck does not promote good reflexes and awareness. There is no reason why they can't be expected to block or avoid the Plasma Grenade before it sticks them. Such an action promotes reflexes and awarness infinitely more than your suggestion. [quote]If you just nerf plasma nades, no, they wouldn't be the same. [/quote] Why? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgingWhite Fire Hylebos, I dont think you quite get the point i am getting at. Without Sticky shedding Plasma Grenades are SO OP because there is no way to counter them, but everything else has a counter. All i see you doing is trying to make an already OP weapon even more OP by removing its only possible counter at this time.[/quote] No way to counter them you say? I use Hologram, and I'm able to dodge most of the Plasma Grenades that come my way, so I'm having trouble seeing why you think Plasma Grenades are overpowered. If it's Plasma Grenade Spam or Point Blank Sticks that you're talking about, I already presented non Plasma Grenade Shedding solutions to those problems in the original post that won't end up killing Plasma Grenades in the process. Why is it that Armor Lock is an acceptable counter to Rockets but it's not an acceptable counter to Plasma Grenades if Plasma Grenade Shedding isn't present? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] carby21 I didn't read the whole thing. Dude summarize that. It took you 4 posts. That's way too much. I read until post 3 and then stopped. Plasma grenade shredding should remain anyways changing things will make other fans angry.[/quote] One should never hesitate to do what is right just because a few people will be angry when their advantage is taken away in the name of fairness. [quote][/quote] I've finally caught up! Hooray!

thats what it should do not pop off

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] master jako11 How bout when someone gets stuck, he/she ALs, the sticky goes under with it, getting your kill. The Armor Locker gets to save his teammates if there around him/her by trapping the blast in the Armor Lock so both sides will have fair results?[/quote] Best way to deal with it is this guys idea. Making it so they cant AL Twice quickly just removes a counter to the sword, as they need the what 3 out of 5 seconds to burn through the explosive charge, After they come out the over 2 are burned by coming out of it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgingWhite Fire Hylebos, I dont think you quite get the point i am getting at. Without Sticky shedding Plasma Grenades are SO OP because there is no way to counter them, but everything else has a counter. All i see you doing is trying to make an already OP weapon even more OP by removing its only possible counter at this time.[/quote]People like you assuming that everything needs a "counter" ruined Halo. They never had a counter in every other Halo game, playing smart and being aware was the counter, not some ability. Not to mention that Plasma Grenades are very far from OP, maybe you should try and walk away from where they are going to land instead of having fail awareness.

I just sat here, at one thirty in the morning, and read your post. The entire thing. All of it. Completely. AMAZING. You, sir or madam, are one of a very few people who I have come across in the forums who have taken the time to write a very well-spoken, grammatically correct argument that brings up many fine points about something a lot of none-Throwers and Non-Lockers overlook. I'm a Jetpacker, through and through, and rarely find myself using plasma grenades (the MA37 and M6G are my preferred tools of the trade). I had totally overlooked the unnecessary and frustrating plasma grenade shedding mechanic for Armour Lock. Your very well-written argument has brought this to light for me, and though it does not affect me very often, I do agree with your entire post, specifically the "Local problems should be fixed with localized solutions" portion. [Edited on 04.29.2011 11:39 PM PDT]

I agree with you on every point. The main problem as I see it is that bungie can't modify loadout abilities now that the game has been released. I would like to see a number of changes to armor lock, like the removal of frosting and it's ability to destroy vehicles and possibly EMP, but I don't think they can actually change anythying at this point.

I didn't read the whole thing. Dude summarize that. It took you 4 posts. That's way too much. I read until post 3 and then stopped. Plasma grenade shredding should remain anyways changing things will make other fans angry.

You do have to admit that AL would be quite reasonable if nerfed like hell.

Great thread. I would just love for AL to be completely removed though. Unfortunately that'll never happen.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SD2522 Okay hold on a second, I never said that Armor Lock was truly balanced. It has plenty of issues that need to be addressed. For me it's the 360 view, player EMP, and being able to survive consistent damage being applied.[/quote] Seriously, the majority of that post was in response to how it's not your fault. I wasn't legitimately upset or anything, I guess I was just trying to bring to light why a new mechanic doesn't mean better mechanic. AL makes the game as a whole unbalanced and something (seriously ANYTHING) needs to be nerfed. The way I see it, this is the least intrusive in the overall AL mechanic, maybe behind EMP. [quote] With that said, if I get stuck and I activate armor lock at the right time I should survive because that's it's basic design intention. Since the Plasma Grenade takes a second to actually blow up that gives me time to enter Armor Lock. Again a design that to me makes sense.[/quote] I have a feeling we will simply have to agree to disagree, as I find it to be logical to not allow shedding, on the grounds that it is attached before activation and anything else that makes contact with a player before activation is considered a hit. What makes this entire thing difficult is that Plasma Nades are the only weapon with a timer when in contact with a player. [quote] HOWEVER, the resulting explosion if it's close enough should knock me out of Armor Lock and I SHOULDN'T be allowed to reenter it till it recharges. [/quote] I would find this an acceptable compromise with some small bleed through shield damage, but the shedding itself would still be an issue. It shouldn't just fly off.

Yet another beautiful and massive read Hylebos I agree with every word of it. I personally think armorlock has absolutely no place in any type of competitive play. I have no idea why Bungie would even consider putting invincibility in as a starting ability and I am also praying to god that 343 sees the error of Bungies ways and either removes it completely or severely nerfs it. The main reason I feel this way is because of the share amount of frustration it has caused me through out the many games I have played against full parties using it. The amount of rockets used, the amount of sword or shotties lost to the other team, the amount of vehicles destroyed is unbelievable. Because of this I have completely strayed away from any playlist that features it. (excluding BTB). You could even go as far as saying that I am boycotting it. >:) Just my opinion though :) [Edited on 04.28.2011 11:03 PM PDT]

I agree totally. I always get very annoyed when I stick someone, and get happy because that doesn't happen very often to me, and they just cheaply go into armor lock and leave unharmed. Nice work on the post by the way.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Trykdaddy Until changes are made, if ever just adjust your strategy accordingly.[/quote] Well, obviously that's already happened, but I'm not happy with the results at all, which is why I'm here with a 4,876 word wall stating my case. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Drowsy Demon Okay I'm jumping into the discussion now, but I think AgingWhite Fire brings up a fair point. The OP in this case is asking for Plasma Grenades to kill an Armor Lock user if said Armor Lock user is stuck with a plasma grenade before he activates his ability. The reasoning for this is irrelevant, that is what the OP is asking for. However, you have to consider that Armor Lock as an ability was meant for this. "Meant for what?" You might ask me. Meant for avoiding death and granting you temporary invincibility, that's what. However, implementing this nerf would run completely contrary to the Armor Ability's purpose. Armor Lock can deflect frag grenades, deflect rockets, survive sniper rifle headshots, and pretty much postpone or avoid every single element of gameplay that causes a player to die. When you say that Armor Lock shouldn't get rid of sticky grenade shedding, then why stop there? Why not take out the whole "invinciblity" portion off the AA? Why not just get rid of it completely? [/quote] Why not get rid of Armor Lock completely you ask? Mostly because I'm not an unreasonable person. Armor Lock is pretty unfair to Plasma Grenade fans as it is right now, tweaking Armor Lock to remove Plasma Grenade Shedding won't compromise the identity of the Armor Abillity at all. Armor Lock is meant for avoiding death and granting temporary invincibillity? That's good, because you'll still be able to avoid death and you'll still be temporarily invincible, you just have to Armor Lock before the Plasma Grenade sticks you. It's no different than Armor Locking before a rocket hits you. Heck, at least if you fail to Armor Lock before a Plasma Grenade hits you, you'll have a full second to take your opponent down with you before you die. Rockets grant people who mess up no such kindness. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] irie II [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat hey Hyle. Would it make yeou happy if you could send out your hologram once you were stuck so the hologram could absorb the grenade? :P [/quote] Better yet, the energy sword should slice grenades and neutralize them.[/quote] You guys are jerks >_> [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] angello22 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Drowsy Demon[/quote] Like Hylebos said, localized solutions for localized problems. Getting rid of Armor Lock doesn't fix the Plasma Shedding attribute it has in-game.[/quote] Well, getting rid of Armor Lock most certainetly would solve the problem. Problem is that people like to use Armor Lock for things other than Plasma Grenade Shedding, so that would kinda suck for them. Definitely an suboptimal solution. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Trolling Spree Umm, OP. I just need to poke a hole in your gloriously written wall. You can survive a stick in any halo if the detonation occurs while an overshield is charging up. Like. 1) Get stuck 2) Pick up shield 3) jooooooooooot recharge sound 4) boom 5) profit. [/quote] -_- I had forgotten about that little nuance. Still, it definitely wasn't a common enough occurance to truly call it a problem I think. You could at the very least see that the guy is standing next to the Overshield Powerup and realize that he would likely grab it if you stick him. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General_Rafa Great thread. I myself am an Armor Lock enthusiast and defender, however Sticky Grenades are a favorite past-time I picked up from Halo 3. I think shedding could reasonably be removed from Armor Lock, but you should still remain invulnerable from the blast if it detonates while you're in Armor Lock. For example: if you are stickied and you enter Armor Lock, if you pop out of Armor Lock before the sticky grenade detonates, you will die unless you go into Armor Lock again right afterwards. However, if you hold Armor Lock long enough, the sticky grenade will explode on you, retaining that invincibility that's meant to be a permanent and non-negotiable feature in Armor Lock.[/quote] Actually that's definitely not a solution to the problems I presented in the original post at all. If such a change were made, I'd have to come up with a new name to describe the feature, then all I'd literally need to do to update my original post is do one of those Find and Replace searches to replace all instances of "Plasma Grenade Shedding" with the feature's new name. In the end, Armor Lock would still be an overpowered counter against Plasma Grenades, and the inclusion of that mechanic would still be unneccessary to balance either the Plasma Grenade or Armor Lock. Just because you think that you should be invincible in Armor Lock no matter what doesn't excuse the fact that the way Armor Lock works now is very unfair to Plasma Grenade fans. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] burritosenior [/quote] I know you're being silly on purpose so I'm pretty much going to ignore most the stuff you say. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrFortunato [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e69-GO4bYLM]who the hell cares?[/url] So plasma 'nades don't win you a fight anymore... live with it, use your gun, jump, strafe from side to side etc. - there is more than one way to win a 1v1 firefight... wasted 6 minutes of my life reading part of that, and you wasted several minutes more typing it all out... [/quote] Ignoring the problem is never going to solve it. Just because there are a plethora of other ways to kill my opponents doesn't make up for the fact that Armor Lock is an overpowered counter against Plasma Grenades. And I did warn you at the very beginning of the post that it was going to be a long thread. It's your own fault for continuing after reading it. Nice video though. Very becoming. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General_Rafa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Apocalyps R12 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General_Rafa Great thread. I myself am an Armor Lock enthusiast and defender, however Sticky Grenades are a favorite past-time I picked up from Halo 3. I think shedding could reasonably be removed from Armor Lock, but you should still remain invulnerable from the blast if it detonates while you're in Armor Lock. For example: if you are stickied and you enter Armor Lock, if you pop out of Armor Lock before the sticky grenade detonates, you will die unless you go back into Armor Lock again right afterwards. However, if you hold Armor Lock long enough, the sticky grenade will explode on you, retaining that invincibility that's meant to be a permanent and non-negotiable feature in Armor Lock.[/quote]That really doesn't solve the problem. All that does is require the AL user to stay in an extra second, which most people are probably doing already. It still takes away a well-earned kill.[/quote] According to the OP and the title, it does. Through my suggestion we can remove Plasma Grenade Shedding without endangering Armor Lock's invincibility feature, as well as actually create the possibility that Stickies can kill Armor Locker users.[/quote] Did you perhaps miss the 2nd post where I clearly described how frustrating it was that there was nothing I could do to ensure that my Plasma Grenade kills my opponent? That "possibillity" that your suggested fix would create is no better than praying that the Armor Locker is completely out of energy when I stick him. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Qu1ckH4ndlz I was sad when I saw you had more frag than plasma grenade kills Hylebos.[/quote] As it should be. You spawn with frags, but you have to pick Plasma Grenades up off of the map. I don't play nearly enough Elite Slayer to reverse the totals. [Edited on 04.29.2011 11:36 AM PDT]

Hylebos, I dont think you quite get the point i am getting at. Without Sticky shedding Plasma Grenades are SO OP because there is no way to counter them, but everything else has a counter. All i see you doing is trying to make an already OP weapon even more OP by removing its only possible counter at this time.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SD2522 It has plenty of issues that need to be addressed. For me it's the 360 view, player EMP, and being able to survive consistent damage being applied. With that said, if I get stuck and I activate armor lock at the right time I should survive because that's it's basic design intention. Since the Plasma Grenade takes a second to actually blow up that gives me time to enter Armor Lock. Again a design that to me makes sense. HOWEVER, the [b] resulting explosion if it's close enough should knock me out of Armor Lock and I SHOULDN'T be allowed to reenter it till it recharges [/b]." [/quote] Good idea, in theory. What I really look for in an improvement in AL is its deletion of the famed "frosting". Based upon the idea in bolded text, my proposal is: following the principle of Active Camo being drained faster as a result of moving, Al should have a similar system; as the more damage it takes, the faster it drains (although Bungie [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6RdLaYZiZY]probably has many complaints about AL being longer[/url]). Ideally, a player just entering armor lock should have "shields" ~6 times the strength of normal shields. Just my two cents here.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Razz_Pitazz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SD2522 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Razz_Pitazz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SD2522 How is it fair to make Plasma Grenades the exception to the rule of Armor Lock? I could go into why Armor Lock is unbalanced and abused by users but with this situation Armor Lock is behaving as intended. The Sticky is neutralized and sent off a distance to (ideally) cause as little damage as possible.[/quote] it is not the exception by far it's all about timing. A player can still die despite activating AL if they activate it too late. Rockets, grenades, head shots, swords etc can all hurt and kill a player who has activated AL even a fraction of a second too late. It only makes sense that since a sticky sticks, it should stay stuck. Activating AL late doesn't [b]negate a rockets splash damage, it shouldn't negate adhesives.[/b][/quote] That's two different things you're talking about. Rocket damage and it's splash are instant, stickies take a second to detonate when stuck. It's not my fault I don't have to react as quickly to something that's been pretty much consistent in the series as it's not my fault a new mechanic changes the way the game is played. So again, why should Stickies be the exception to the rule?[/quote] Alright. It's not your fault. It's Bungies. In the idea of balanced play (which is what all multiplayer games actually strive for to be successful and fun) you need give and take with absolutely everything. If there is an advantage to something there needs to be a disadvantage as well, maybe not necessarily immediately attributed to the same "thing" but somehow. This is why most maps are made the way they are, with power weapons spread out and carefully picked to balance one another out, differentiating high/low grounds, choke points etc. AA's are (supposed to be) the same way. -Sprint makes you run and jump further, you can use it multiple times in different time intervals until the meter runs out. Drawbacks are you can't use a weapon. -Evade is a quick paced roll, allowed two uses before recharge. Again no weapon and difficult maneuvering. -Active Camo makes you invisible based on speed and action and jams nearby enemy radars. You can use this ability multiple times in different time intervals until the meter runs out. Drawbacks include lack of sound, motion sensor disruption, and the need to move very slowly to actually be camouflaged. -Drop Shield is a protective bubble. Nothing goes in and nothing goes out. Drawbacks are one time use until the meter recharges, the fact that it is stationary, and with enough damage it will drop. -Hologram is a copy of yourself that also adds a blip to the motion sensor. Drawbacks are that its a one-time use until the meter recharges, it only moves linearly, and has obvious visual cues to suggest its existence as a hologram (flickering, stationary stance, continuous movement along walls, lack of heat signature through unscoped Sniper) -Jet Pack allows the player to travel vertically to allow quicker routes to certain areas as well as a higher y-axis of strategy and maneuvering, and has a feature to allow one to slow their decent if the meter is dry. Several uses in different time intervals until the meter runs out. Drawbacks generally consist of limited flight time, highly exposed position and a need for caution when using it due to fall damage. -Armor Lock prevents any and all damage that is thrown a players way as long as it is active. When a player comes out from Armor Lock an EMP is released that immobilizes vehicles and shields of any enemy in its immediate vicinity. A player can destroy a speeding vehicle. Armor lock has the ability to deflect high velocity objects such as grenades and rockets. A player is allowed to move the camera while Armor lock is active, and once out the player instantly faces the same direction. A player is allowed to use this ability twice before it is completely drained in 3 second intervals or less or for up to a full 6 seconds at once. Players shields can recharge in this state. Drawbacks are the player cannot move leaving him vulnerable to an execution set up, and must be on a solid surface. If we can agree that the above list is true (please edify if it is believed otherwise) than allow to break these pro's and con's into a point value system. Keep in mind the idea of fair and balanced game play, so these values should be relatively close to 0. Number of uses will be included, +1 for several, 0 for limited, and -1 for one time. -Sprint: +3-1= +2 -Evade: +1-2= -1 -Active Camo: +3-3= 0 -Drop Shield: +1-3= -2 -Hologram: +1-1= 0 (its a hologram) -Jet Pack: +3-3= 0 -Armor Lock: +5-2= +3 ( for the record this includes invulnerability, EMP, vehicular destruction, deflection, instant directional change upon exit, immobility and geographical restrictions.) Now +1 difference may not seem like alot, but if you add up the differences between the AA's excluding armor lock you come up with this: Overall pro's=+12 Overall Con's=-13 Total= -1 Add Armor Lock it turns to: +17-15=+2 This now actually adds a 3 point difference. The idea is that the further away from 0, the more unbalanced it is. Armor Lock beats the other AA's by +1, and tips the scale of all AA's as a whole by +3. Making it unbalanced. So no it's not your fault that an OP mechanic was put in the game. It's not your fault for exploiting it. It's not your fault for using it to it's fullest potential. However my argument was and still is completely relevant. If you AL a speeding vehicle and the vehicle splatters you, the assumption is you used it too late. If you AL a rocket coming at your face and it kills you, the assumption is you used it too late. If you see a grenade and use AL but it still kills you, the assumption is you used it too late. If you AL a sword lunger but it goes through the assumption... you get it. Basically, Armor Lock was intended and is mainly used for preventative care. You use it before the danger is within range and your safe. If you are stuck with a Plasma Grenade it has well surpassed that range. Activating Armor Lock at this point will shed the grenade and send it flying elsewhere (sometimes into the attacker), not to be confused with deflection which repels an object that hits the target after an activated Armor Lock. This is not preventative care, this is negating. At no other point does Armor Lock actually negate something. In fact Plasma Grenades already are the exception to Armor Lock, they are the only weapon that Armor Lock negates. Edit: Also, ever died of supercombine while attempting an Armor Lock? [/quote] Okay hold on a second, I never said that Armor Lock was truly balanced. It has plenty of issues that need to be addressed. For me it's the 360 view, player EMP, and being able to survive consistent damage being applied. With that said, if I get stuck and I activate armor lock at the right time I should survive because that's it's basic design intention. Since the Plasma Grenade takes a second to actually blow up that gives me time to enter Armor Lock. Again a design that to me makes sense. HOWEVER, the resulting explosion if it's close enough should knock me out of Armor Lock and I SHOULDN'T be allowed to reenter it till it recharges. As for it flying away from what I've seen it flies away in the straightest path provided, and that usually ends up being towards where it came from. Again Armor Lock has tons of issues that need to be addressed and fixed, this isn't really one of them.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos ... -_- How would it add a whole new level of skill or complexity to Plasma Grenade Sticking? As outlined in the original post, there's nothing I can do to ensure that my Plasma Grenade kills my target so long as Plasma Grenade Shedding is around, making it so that everyone can shed Plasma Grenades only makes the problem worse for Plasma Grenade fans. Why can't Plasma Grenades be nerfed directly if they are overpowered, as I suggested in the original post? [/quote] The problem with plasma nades is that there are so many scenarios that you can stick someone without them being able to avoid it at all, there needs to be a way to block plasma grenades, to defend against them. The good thing about my suggestion is that it gives people the ability to block plasma grenades but also makes it so you need good reflexes and awareness in order to do it without getting yourself killed. If you just nerf plasma nades, no, they wouldn't be the same. I mean the only nerf I can think of is something like [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX8yrOAjfKM&t=3m0s]this[/url] but that would take all the fun out of stickies. [Edited on 04.28.2011 4:01 PM PDT]

Wow nice post, i got pulled into that one. And, i completely agree.

I read the whole thing (god help me) and this was my one and only [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M]thought...[/url]

Pfft, I like shedding plasma's. Especially when lag allows them to tag me from 5 feet away half the time.

That was very uh... Beautiful?

I love you Hylebos! give me a day to soak this in, then inteligent post.