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4/25/2011 12:14:37 AM
268
The Fall of the Plasma Grenade, a thread on Plasma Grenade Shedding
[quote][b]WARNING: This topic criticizes Armor Lock![/b]
If you find yourself weary of the repetitiveness of Armor Lock threads on the Reach Forum, I encourage you to read my post anyways and keep an open mind. I've put a lot of work into this, and I feel my suggestions are not unreasonable.
[b]WARNING: I am TERRIBLE at writing succinctly![/b]
If a 4,876 word post spread out over four posts is too much for your reading abilities to handle, then I suggest bailing out of my thread now. But feel free to post those [i]witty[/i] "tl;dr" memes to your heart's desire, it will only get you banned for spam, and bump my thread up to the top of the front page.
[/quote][quote][/quote][b]Introduction: My First Game of Halo.[/b][quote][/quote]It all started at a birthday party back in the 7th grade...
My friends wanted one more player to play this game called Halo CE with them, so they called me over from the snack table to fill in. I was hesitant to join them, as back then I was a devout Nintendo Fanboy and any other console was clearly the devil, but I decided to humor them by playing their inferior game.
My very first match of Halo was 8 Player FFA on Battle Creek, AR Pistol starts. Looking back on the game, it was a bit of a train wreck, but it couldn't be helped as the odds were stacked against me. It was a foreign game from a foreign genre on a foreign console with foreign controls, and my friends were the sort of jerks who neglected to tell me the basic controls or nuances of the game before throwing me into the midst of it. In hindsight my biggest mistake was deciding that the pistol was garbage because it was smaller than my AR, and therefore less powerful. As a result, I had trouble defending myself from my opponents who were mysteriously capable of killing me quickly from across the map.
It didn't matter what weapon I used, I couldn't score a single kill. I'd climb a ladder, and my friend would snipe me at point blank range in the head. I'd be running along behind the base and a rocket would come out of nowhere and blow me away! I was starting to get very frustrated. I didn't understand anything about this game! I was just about ready to put down the controller and walk away, but that's when I saw [i]it[/i].
There was something blue floating beneath the river that flowed through the central part of the map. I went to investigate, and as I passed over the orb, I saw a message flash up on my screen: "Picked up a Plasma Grenade". Grenades. I use the left trigger to throws those, right?
At that moment my friend burst out from behind a rock and charged straight towards me, intent on farming yet another kill off the new guy. Without thinking, I tossed that Plasma Grenade directly into my friend's face, and to my surprise, it latched onto him and began to burn! I heard him let out a curse from the opposite side of the room as his Spartan Character started to panic! Four seconds later he dissapeared in a brilliant Blue Explosion, my very first kill in a Halo game!
That single Plasma Grenade that I had scooped from the waters of Battle Creek completely changed the game for me. In my hand I held a weapon that was as deadly as it was beautifully comedic! I had become a wielder of burning blue death! I had the power to strike fear into my opponent's hearts! And damn was it funny to watch them freak out when they were stuck!
That first game led to many others, each one teaching me a little bit more about how fun this game was. I learned how to drive a Warthog on Sidewinder, experienced the chaos of Rocket starts on Prisoner, and learned how to Snipe on Boarding Action. Altogether I left the party with a positive outlook on both Halo and the Xbox, and about a year later I got an Xbox of my very own and a copy of Halo 2 and I've been hooked on Halo ever since.
Now that being said, I've never been really all that good at getting sticks with the Plasma Grenade. Sure, I could get kills at point blank range, but anybody can do that, I wanted something a little more. I was very jealous of the players online who were seemingly capable of consistently sticking me from any angle at any moment, and I too wanted to be able to stick people from a distance. Right before Halo Reach came out, I made myself a personal goal to improve my sticking ability in the new game so I could be just like those awesome players I had met.
While my current abilities are definitely nothing to brag about, I am very proud of how far I've come since Halo 3. Every day I feel more and more confident whenever I throw a Plasma Grenade, and I've gotten some pretty cool sticks over my couple thousand Reach games.
Finally! I understand the joy of the world of Sticking!
...Unfortunately, with that joy came a great deal of frustration. Frustration that Plasma Grenade Fans have been feeling since the Beta. Frustration that stems from a feature of Armor Lock, commonly known as Plasma Grenade Shedding.
[quote][/quote][b][i]Continued on Post 2[/i][/b][quote][/quote]
[Edited on 04.24.2011 4:47 PM PDT]
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Wow, very well put. I enjoy reading these thought out, intellectual threads, rather than the constant one sentence complaint threads. Great job, and I agree fully.
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Wow, Hyle. I-- I'm speechless. I never thought you were this up close and personal with Armor Lockdown.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xirifus477 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guess Mother of god. Seriously, it doesn't take an essay to write an argument.[/quote] But it certainly helps to make a point and contribute to the following conversation.[/quote] It's certainly a waste of time trying to make it as detailed as the OP. One post would've been more than enough. Hell, even 2 paragrpahs would've done the job. [Edited on 05.13.2011 12:49 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Guess Mother of god. Seriously, it doesn't take an essay to write an argument.[/quote] But it certainly helps to make a point and contribute to the following conversation.
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Just dropping in to say, that I read the whole post, and I agree completely; Armor Lock is great armor ability (if not a bit overused) but the plasma grenade shedding is just stupid, and unbalanced. Like you said, I don't know what bungie was thinking when they made it so. Also, I like both of the ideas on how to fix this on your post and I'm pretty sure they both would work out great. That's just my two cRs, dropping off from this thread now -->
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Mother of god. Seriously, it doesn't take an essay to write an argument.
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this should be posted in the optimatch, but we all know bungie won't do anything about it.
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That was a great read, really enjoyed hearing about your first sticky kill. You also remind me of myself when I was younger, being a total Nintendo head and 'any other console was the devil' made me lol. Yes, the sticky grenade has become a core staple of the Halo games and the fact that AL can shed them is nigh on blasphemy. I really hope this is fixed in a future update, but even then, folks will just use AL before they get stuck. It's a big problem.
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whats with all the book writers..?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MC lz Rippin It used to be fun when you could stick someone and you were 100% sure that you outplayed him, but that's no longer possible. Remove plasma grenade shedding and frosting from armor lock.[/quote] Frosting is another area of Armor Lock that I definitely think needs some tweaking. Allow me to start with a short analogy... Imagine that your little brother challenges you to a footrace across a large field. You accept his challenge, but you offer him a three second head start out of brotherly love since you know that you are much faster than he is and you want a fair competition. Your brother accepts, and you both line up at the starting line. The race begins, but instead of taking off for the goal immediately, your little brother turns around to swiftly kick you in the balls. You fall over on the ground, writhing in pain, and your brother takes off for the finish line and wins uncontested. That's what Armor Lock Frosting is to me in a nutshell. While a part of me finds the idea of giving Armor Lockers one extra burst invunerabillity once their power runs out ludicrous and unneccessary, there is also a benevolent part of me who realizes that Armor Lockers are at their weakest when they exit Armor Lock. Everybody is readying their grenades and weapons, and it seems fair to offer the Armor Locker a head start in the form of a fraction of a second of invunerabillity with which they can at least start dodging with. But what I find completely unacceptable is that Armor Lockers are allowed to take advantage of that head start to kick everybody else in the balls. I'm referring to the fact that there is no mechanic to prevent Armor Lockers from using their weapons or throwing grenades while under the effects of frosting. Battles in Halo are often won by the person who begins shooting first, so it gives the Armor Locker an advantage over nearby players. They are free to get off that first shot, but we can't damage them. That's just not fair. I thought the intent of Frosting was to help protect Armor Lockers as they exit Armor Lock. Why are they allowed to strike back in the same breath? At the very least, the abillity to fire weapons or use grenades while under the effects of Frosting should be taken away. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WILLtheKILLA5 "Take log out of your eye before you talk about the splinter in ours" and also no i did bother reading that trash look AL isnt changeing so just deal with it.[/quote] Would you care to explain which plank I have overlooked? Why exactly do you disagree with my original post?
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"Take log out of your eye before you talk about the splinter in ours" and also no i did bother reading that trash look AL isnt changeing so just deal with it.
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A wholesome and well-written post. Unfortunately, this will definitely fall of deaf ears of mutated baby retards. Bnet loves Armor Lock for its instantaneous and wholesome protection from death for 5 seconds, a long time in a Halo game. Bravo. I smiled at the Battle Creek stick, such a good read.
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It used to be fun when you could stick someone and you were 100% sure that you outplayed him, but that's no longer possible. Remove plasma grenade shedding and frosting from armor lock.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MURDUR 587 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hylebos There are just as many scenarios where you can't avoid bullets or rockets, yet you don't see any overpowered defensive mechanisms singling those weapons out and crushing them mercilessly like Plasma Grenade Shedding does to Plasma Grenades (oh wait, there's the Sword Block). There already is a way to block Plasma Grenades, to defend against them. It's called Armor Lock, and it doesn't need Plasma Grenade Shedding to accomplish that job. And it's not the only way either. I use Hologram, which posesses no evasive or shielding abillities, and even I don't have a problem dodging most Plasma Grenades. What scenarios are there in which people can't avoid an incoming Plasma Grenade that isn't shared with every other weapon? [/quote] There is a difference between a shot with a DMR and a one shot kill weapon. There is a difference between a weapon that spawns in one place on the map and in 3 minute intervals and a weapon that spawns in multiple places in 10 second intervals. [/quote] As I said in my original post, if Plasma Grenade Spam is a problem on a particular map, then the best solution to fix it is to go into forge and to mess with the spawn times, uncluster the grenades, and delete a few extras if neccessary. There are currently no maps in Reach where Plasma Grenades spawn every ten seconds, the shortest spawn timer among the default maps is 30 seconds. If memory serves the most common number of Plasma Grenades on non-BTB maps is two, though there are a few Forgeworld maps that have a lot more, but again, if it's truely a problem, it's better fixed with forge than with Plasma Grenade Shedding. [quote]There is a difference between seeing someone shoot you with a rocket and seeing someone pull a plasma grenade almost literally out of their ass and stick you in the face.[/quote] I don't really see the difference. The rockets give you little time to react, the Plasma Grenade gives you an extra fraction of a second to act as he draws it out and ignites it. [quote]And actually, you can avoid getting into scenarios where you can't avoid getting killed by the said OSK weapons that only have one spawn on the map and are easily visible on the player but how am I supposed to avoid plasma nades? Never engage someone at close to mid range?[/quote] Or you could simply exercise caution whenever you close the distance between you and your opponent. Halo has taught me that all manners of crap can happen suddenly at close range, so I make it a habit to never run in straight lines and to always wheel around my opponent as I approach him. You might not know for sure if he has Plasma Grenades or not, but if you practice that tactic religiously you'll minimialize the chances of getting stuck from a point blank stick or get injured in the variety of other crap that occurs in close range combat. And again, if you have particular beef against Point Blank Sticks in general, I encourage you to pursue the solution that I presented in my original post. The normal use of the Plasma Grenade however should not be sacrificed just because Plasma Grenades can be used cheaply at close range, just as Armor Lock should not be removed entirely from the game just because it has more than a few rough areas. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Elite 11 i think AR is the best and its grate been able to knock off the plasm when you knock it off you feel grate and invicable[/quote] I'm sure it would feel even better if you knew that you survived the Plasma Grenade attack thanks to your own abillities and not because you screwed up and were forced to take advantage of a second chance. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Maxtrix 9 Have you tried covering your plasma grenades in PVA to make them stick better to armor lockers?[/quote] I'm pretty sure that Polyvinyl Alcohol doesn't set fast enough to help out the entire Fuse-To-Your-Armor thing that the Plasma Grenade already has going on. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Atrabilious Not that it'll ever change, but I've always liked the idea that if you AL'ing while stuck, it should simply seal in the explosion. Still kills you, but as the logic of AL works along the lines of your spartan being enveloped in an invincibility shield, the sticky should likewise be encased with you. By process of that, you still die, but you can mitigate the splash damage to Bro's in the vicinity if you decide to take one for the team instead of using that last split second to try and score a kill. I suppose it depends on your disposition to the matter. Personally I'd be quite pleased with the removal of plasma shedding completely, but my middle ground seems like a nice alternative in my head; I like stuff that rewards team-orientated decisions, even at the cost to the player.[/quote] I'd be absolutely okay with allowing Armor Lockers to seal in the blast to save their bros. I should really stick that in the Original Post. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gronzlo I didn't read the whole thread (about 2/3; I have focus problems) but I did pick up one very important thing about Armor Abilities and their nature. Jetpack is the only AA that lets you know what ability your enemy is using before they actually use it. Jetpack is not disputed like Armor Lock is, and it happens to have a very obvious location on your Spartan. I think that if each AA had a distinct visual appearance on the Spartan's armor, there wouldn't be nearly as much random chance in Reach-- I can guarantee you've run into a situation where you could have saved yourself had you known your foe had Armor Lock, or Evade, or even a Drop Shield. That way, what loadout you pick at the start of a match isn't invisible to everyone, thereby making it NOT up to luck whether or not the person in front of you is going to Armor Lock.[/quote] Plus it makes your Spartan look cooler. I really wish Bungie had gone with more-visable Armor Abillities rather than the boring squares that we have currently. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] killrraider13 watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0] this [/url][/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WILLtheKILLA5 [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0]you[/url] [/quote] Random question. Did either of you fools bother reading past the first disclaimer? Because had you actually read my thread, you would realize that the video has absolutely no relevance to my topic. Next time please try to think for yourselves instead of letting your overused youtube videos think for you.
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If they keep the AL a powerful AA i would like to see consistency in it's mechanics like when a player comes out of AL it emits an EMP blast dropping the opponents shield. Now if this blast is what it is why does it not affect a teamate that is within its proximity thus dropping there friends shield allowing for a balanced altercation making the user of the AL think twice before using because it will damage shields of all within the EMP blast providing balance... Think about it
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WILLtheKILLA5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] killrraider13 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WILLtheKILLA5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] killrraider13 watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0] this [/url][/quote] rofl it the same as mine[/quote] great minds think alike I suppose.[/quote] indeed[/quote]That video is funny, but supports both arguments and is therefore invalid as an AL supporter or hater argument.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] killrraider13 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WILLtheKILLA5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] killrraider13 watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0] this [/url][/quote] rofl it the same as mine[/quote] great minds think alike I suppose.[/quote] indeed
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WILLtheKILLA5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] killrraider13 watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0] this [/url][/quote] rofl it the same as mine[/quote] great minds think alike I suppose.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] killrraider13 watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0] this [/url][/quote] rofl it the same as mine
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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0]you[/url]
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watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIJg6uQZs0] this [/url]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PeteTacular 42 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] master jako11 How bout when someone gets stuck, he/she ALs, the sticky goes under with it, getting your kill. The Armor Locker gets to save his teammates if there around him/her by trapping the blast in the Armor Lock so both sides will have fair results?[/quote] Yes! That's exactly what my reply was going to be! If you stick the player, and he goes in AL, the effect could be a muffled sounding explosion (preventing a multi kill).[/quote] Earlier I was debating with a fellow and he brought this up as a solution, only instead of killing you it knocks you out of AL, and I agreed this would be the best middle ground but felt better if there was regular shield damage as well.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] master jako11 How bout when someone gets stuck, he/she ALs, the sticky goes under with it, getting your kill. The Armor Locker gets to save his teammates if there around him/her by trapping the blast in the Armor Lock so both sides will have fair results?[/quote] Yes! That's exactly what my reply was going to be! If you stick the player, and he goes in AL, the effect could be a muffled sounding explosion (preventing a multi kill).
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I didn't read the whole thread (about 2/3; I have focus problems) but I did pick up one very important thing about Armor Abilities and their nature. Jetpack is the only AA that lets you know what ability your enemy is using before they actually use it. Jetpack is not disputed like Armor Lock is, and it happens to have a very obvious location on your Spartan. I think that if each AA had a distinct visual appearance on the Spartan's armor, there wouldn't be nearly as much random chance in Reach-- I can guarantee you've run into a situation where you could have saved yourself had you known your foe had Armor Lock, or Evade, or even a Drop Shield. That way, what loadout you pick at the start of a match isn't invisible to everyone, thereby making it NOT up to luck whether or not the person in front of you is going to Armor Lock.
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TL;DR
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Not that it'll ever change, but I've always liked the idea that if you AL'ing while stuck, it should simply seal in the explosion. Still kills you, but as the logic of AL works along the lines of your spartan being enveloped in an invincibility shield, the sticky should likewise be encased with you. By process of that, you still die, but you can mitigate the splash damage to Bro's in the vicinity if you decide to take one for the team instead of using that last split second to try and score a kill. I suppose it depends on your disposition to the matter. Personally I'd be quite pleased with the removal of plasma shedding completely, but my middle ground seems like a nice alternative in my head; I like stuff that rewards team-orientated decisions, even at the cost to the player.
