We've all seen many, many bloom threads. From Bloom is broken, to bloom is was in all halo games. There is a fallacy in both arguments.
It's not bloom, i.e. the expanding/retracting reticule that is questionably flawed. it's the bullet spread. Bloom is simply the visual representation of that bullet spread.
So when bloom supporters say, [i]"Bloom as been in every halo game"[/i], they are both wrong and right. Bloom, the visual indicator, has never been in in previous halo titles. Bullet spread has. For better or worse, bloom and bullet spread are now tied together as one mechanic. Control the bloom, control the bullet spread. (Supposedly)
Recoil and muzzle walk/climb. Halo 3 had recoil and muzzle walk/climb on nearly every weapon but it was dependent on the weapon. For instance, the sniper rifle relied almost exclusively on recoil while other weapons, most notably the SMG, relied on muzzle walk/climb. Let go of your thumb stick, hold the trigger down and the recoil from the fully automatic SMG would cause your reticule (muzzle) to "walk" upwards. Compare that to the sniper which relied on recoil. After firing a round your reticule wouldn't be resting where you aimed, it would be slightly higher, not much but it was noticeable.
The difference between halo 3's Bullet spread and Reach's is that the respective visual indicators, recoil and/or muzzle walk/climb and bloom, weren't tied together. Meaning that Halo 3's bullet spread wasn't very dependent on controlling the muzzle walk of a particular weapon. In reach it is.
Reach has some if very little recoil or muzzle walk/climb. From what I can tell based on my observations it's nearly non existent and has little influence on each weapons bullet spread.
So what's the point you might be asking?
1. Bloom, as it's being referred to by both sides on this forum, isn't the problem. It's the bullet spread.
2. Both games (if not all previous halo titles) had [i]bullet spread[/i] not bloom. (please correct and clarify if I'm off on that one)
Some believe that bullet spread or "randomness" can be bad. I'll try to keep my personal bias out of this next statement the best I can. If I loose DMR/pistol/whatever duel, I'd rather it be because the other player out-shot/out-aimed me and not because he got lucky with the pre-programmed bullet vectoring algorithm that allowed his kill shot to be "more accurate" than mine. However, I can see what bungie was attempting to do with the idea of controlling bloom = controlling bullet spread.
So now the question I've been asking myself is this; What's more "skillful" Timing shots and controlling reticule bloom? Or Timing shots and controlling recoil/muzzle walk? Honestly I don't know. While recoil and muzzle climb are much more realistic but we're talking about a video game.
Thoughts?
[Edited on 03.07.2011 4:22 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sirtees Actually bloom is inaccurate in the bullet spread measurement. Don't believe me? Grab a Plasma Repeater with bottomless clip active and hug the trigger for about a minute XD[/quote] And I thought me and a few friends of mine were the only ones to know of how insane the plasma repeater's bloom is..
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sirtees Actually bloom is inaccurate in the bullet spread measurement. Don't believe me? Grab a Plasma Repeater with bottomless clip active and hug the trigger for about a minute XD[/quote]Could you explain more?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sirtees Actually bloom is inaccurate in the bullet spread measurement. Don't believe me? Grab a Plasma Repeater with bottomless clip active and hug the trigger for about a minute XD[/quote] I still don't understand why Bungie decided to nerf the hell out of the Plasma Repeater. :(
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Actually bloom is inaccurate in the bullet spread measurement. Don't believe me? Grab a Plasma Repeater with bottomless clip active and hug the trigger for about a minute XD [Edited on 02.19.2011 11:58 AM PST]
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I just thought of this. The idea of calling bloom, bloom is also flawed. Think on this, what is bloom supposed to do besides visually represent each weapon's bullet spread? It also represents rate of fire. Now I'm speculating with my next point: Reticule bloom, bullet spread and rate of fire, in Halo Reach are all tied together, to what degree and depth I cannot say. Example: Reach's Sniper rifle. Every time you fire a round the reticule nearly instantly expands before resetting and you are physically able to fire off another round. I think we can agree that reticule bloom represents RoF more than bullet spread, because lets face it, bullet spread on sniper rifle is a ridiculous notion. The DMR. In the case of the DMR, it's apparent, based on personal observations and experience, that reticule bloom is representative of both RoF and bullet spread and I would also like to suggest that perhaps RoF and bullet spread on, in particular the semi-automatic weapons are tied together or influence each other. Meaning if a player pulls the trigger as fast as they can on the DMR or Pistol the rate of fire will influence bullet spread. Now that I type it and reread it seems very obvious to me that this undoubtedly the case.
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Very good post, OP. I love the terminology (although I think muzzle walk is in fact muzzle climb but that's a detail). [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sanuel Jackson Lol "muzzle walk", it's either referred to as "barrel kick" or "recoil". Anyways, congrats on clearing up the terminology. I'd rather every single gun have perfect accuracy so that the victor is determined almost solely on who had the better aim.[/quote] Agreed on this too. The person who shot the best in that encounter should win. *thread saved* [Edited on 02.19.2011 11:26 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sanuel Jackson Lol "muzzle walk", it's either referred to as "barrel kick" or "recoil".[/quote]Essentially all the same, but yes you are right.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agent Peeps Agreed, but I think while auto aim/bullet magnetism is relevant it's not necessary tied to this issue.[/quote] True, I just think it goes along side it in the threads you were talking about, or at least gives more information to the discussion. And the fact that bloom is directly tied to the auto-aim spread and rate, so the terms are related. [Edited on 02.19.2011 11:24 AM PST]
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Lol "muzzle walk", it's either referred to as "barrel kick" or "recoil". Anyways, congrats on clearing up the terminology. I'd rather every single gun have perfect accuracy so that the victor is determined almost solely on who had the better aim.
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When people are referring to bloom being in the other games that's what they mean >.< Muzzle Walk? You came up with that by yourself didn't you? (Kind of catchy). But you should be calling it recoil. XD [Edited on 02.19.2011 11:21 AM PST]
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Great thread, might turn into a hot topic. I personally liked muzzle walk because spread is just random. Obviously, real life is random but this is a video game. People play video games for fun and to be competitive, and to be competitve you must have skill. Well randomness makes skill not the only variable of who is going to win, the new variable is luck.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] i can has drugz Agree completely, except with your terminology :) Aside from bloom, the terms since CE have been auti-aim for the (currently 2%) bullet drag, and magnetism for the weapon drag.[/quote]Agreed, but I think while auto aim/bullet magnetism is relevant it's not necessary tied to this issue.
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Agree completely, except with your terminology :) Aside from bloom, the terms since CE have been auti-aim for the (currently 2%) bullet drag, and magnetism for the weapon drag. I don't know what the walk was called other than recoil, so I'll go with your term. [Edited on 02.19.2011 11:19 AM PST]