I'd just like to add that on the cover of the book of TFOR first edition made in November 2001 says "The official prequel to the award-winning Xbox game!" I mean really it's right on the book that to me means official canon as it's a prequel to the events of the discovery of the halo rings. I know this is 5 years to late but no one seems to ever mention that line form the top of the book.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zelfarth Think of it this way, The DBZ series> DBZ movies halo books ( the DBZ series) > Halo games ( DBZ movies) as which cannon should be counted.[/quote] Haha so instead of every game ending with a Spirit Bomb it's just a warthog run and a bunch of unanswered questions?

Think of it this way, The DBZ series> DBZ movies halo books ( the DBZ series) > Halo games ( DBZ movies) as which cannon should be counted.

Thank you. I've always found the Halo books and comics interesting, I even liked Contact Harvest haha. I understand that Bungie wanted to tell this story and that's great but they could have easily made the books and novels fit. First and foremost is the rewrite to TFOR, nothing was changed not even a date. They could have easily changed the dates (People would grumble about this but it's better than what we have now). They could have added a section on where Cortana "reunites" with herself and explain why the Autumn was on Reach. Or they could have had Noble deliver the package by hitching a ride into space, he could have used a SUPER MAC and assist the Autumn. Personally I think this would have been awesome, have the game end where the first game began... In space. Another thing they could have easily fixed was have Reach take place over a much shorter point of time, I could have believed an early Covenant scout party and battle showing up a week before Reach. There was so much potential, and who wouldn't have loved seeing events that Noble did reflect onto TFOR and vice versa.

Just do what i do and pretend Halo Reach is set in an alternate universe. DC and Marvel do it ALL the time. it may make less sense and be more ridiculous... but i can sleep at night. ish.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coussin123 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] puddlebeater My argument is that both games and books should be par.[/quote]That was never the case. You know why the army in Reach uses the MA37 Assault Rifle, while the Marines on the Autumn used the MA5B? It's not because that's how it was from the start. Instead, that's the lame story they invented to justify these differences, and hide the fact that the real reason is game design. Actually, the story itself is influenced by game design. There never was a clear story of what happened to Noble 6, it was about "what is fun and what isn't, and how can we make a cool game". Same thing for Master Chief, there was supposed to be a level in a Super Carrier on Halo 2, they replaced it with the bomb riding sequence. If you're searching for a cohesive world, avoid things such as Halo, and above everything, avoid licensed products whose sole existence is to milk the franchise. I mean, there's a Noble 7 figurine after all... I myself only played the Halo games, and don't even want to get deeper into the story and read the books, watch the shorts and everything... I just stick with the game, because that's the core of what Halo is. So for all big franchises, stick with the core content, and dismiss everything else, could it be Gears of War, Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, Fallout, Mario or Harry Potter. Assassin's Creed might be an exception, because it's the best franchise ever made when it comes to that: there are no gaps, no incoherencies, nor plot changes between all games, books and comics released... What they managed to pull off is actually incredible. You can safely consume all that, you won't be disappointed. At least, based on what we know today. Or stick with small franchises that will never come big.[/quote] Because Halo is [i]obviously[/i] a "small franchise". -_- So I should disregard 9 years worth of effort into a good story simply because of one game that ended up as a botch job? Sure, Halo had its inconsistencies before Reach but they were minor at best. You know that the story is the first thing Bungie do when creating a game, then they design the levels after?[/quote]I didn't say Halo is a small franchise. It's exactly the opposite actually. It's way to big, there's no way it can hold together. Also EDIT. Also, they write the story, but how vague is that story so that they can add and remove complete parts of the game?

It depends what the developers of the game say. Bungie themselves said the books were part of the Halo cannon.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coussin123 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] puddlebeater My argument is that both games and books should be par.[/quote]That was never the case. You know why the army in Reach uses the MA37 Assault Rifle, while the Marines on the Autumn used the MA5B? It's not because that's how it was from the start. Instead, that's the lame story they invented to justify these differences, and hide the fact that the real reason is game design. Actually, the story itself is influenced by game design. There never was a clear story of what happened to Noble 6, it was about "what is fun and what isn't, and how can we make a cool game". Same thing for Master Chief, there was supposed to be a level in a Super Carrier on Halo 2, they replaced it with the bomb riding sequence. If you're searching for a cohesive world, avoid things such as Halo, and above everything, avoid licensed products whose sole existence is to milk the franchise. I mean, there's a Noble 7 figurine after all... I myself only played the Halo games, and don't even want to get deeper into the story and read the books, watch the shorts and everything... I just stick with the game, because that's the core of what Halo is. So for all big franchises, stick with the core content, and dismiss everything else, could it be Gears of War, Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, Fallout, Mario or Harry Potter. Assassin's Creed might be an exception, because it's the best franchise ever made when it comes to that: there are no gaps, no incoherencies, nor plot changes between all games, books and comics released... What they managed to pull off is actually incredible. You can safely consume all that, you won't be disappointed. At least, based on what we know today. Or stick with small franchises that will never come big.[/quote] Because Halo is [i]obviously[/i] a "small franchise". -_- So I should disregard 9 years worth of effort into a good story simply because of one game that ended up as a botch job? Sure, Halo had its inconsistencies before Reach but they were minor at best. You know that the story is the first thing Bungie do when creating a game, then they design the levels after?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] puddlebeater My argument is that both games and books should be par.[/quote]That was never the case. You know why the army in Reach uses the MA37 Assault Rifle, while the Marines on the Autumn used the MA5B? It's not because that's how it was from the start. Instead, that's the lame story they invented to justify these differences, and hide the fact that the real reason is game design. Actually, the story itself is influenced by game design. There never was a clear story of what happened to Noble 6, it was about "what is fun and what isn't, and how can we make a cool game". Same thing for Master Chief, there was supposed to be a level in a Super Carrier on Halo 2, they replaced it with the bomb riding sequence. If you're searching for a cohesive world, avoid things such as Halo, and above everything, avoid licensed products whose sole existence is to milk the franchise. I mean, there's a Noble 7 figurine after all... I myself only played the Halo games, and don't even want to get deeper into the story and read the books, watch the shorts and everything... I just stick with the game, because that's the core of what Halo is. So for all big franchises, stick with the core content, and dismiss everything else, could it be Gears of War, Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, Fallout, Mario or Harry Potter. Assassin's Creed might be an exception, because it's the best franchise ever made when it comes to that: there are no gaps, no incoherencies, nor plot changes between all games, books and comics released... What they managed to pull off is actually incredible. You can safely consume all that, you won't be disappointed. At least, based on what we know today. Or stick with small franchises that will never come big. Might be disappointing for some to have such small worlds, with so few content, and sometimes, the authors themselves give up before the end. A few years ago, I read "Universal War One", a French comic which you can find pretty well translated in English. I've waited for years for each volume. And now, its author said "making Universal War Two is just too much work, I might get back later to that, or I might not". Which means, maybe I'll never get to read the sequel in my life. So yeah, small franchises aren't as interesting as big ones, because you have to wait years to get a sequel, and sometimes you'll never get it. Still, there are only these comics, so it's all cohesive, and you don't suffer from that "Halo" effect. [Edited on 01.22.2011 6:19 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen Macles0007 and ajw34307 As another member who reads and follows the novels story, I 100% agree with your views. You show relevant experience in these fields and aren't quick to make assumptions while throwing inconsistent facts around. Much to the dismay of other users. I could say 5 years ago there were much more people like you guys, when the community on B.net was actually a community. But with the casual appeal to Reach, the quality of the members are dwindling down and down to the point where they will accept any crap Bungie gives them. I applaud you guys for analysing this from a historical view, looking at both sides, the novel in contrast to the game and then making a overall conclusion. Rather then blindly opening your mouths like the rest of the new wave of the community. I guess the Bungie Universe forums are where the actual intellectuals roam now since the Reach forum has been overrun with these "Know-it-all quick" kids. *sigh Anyways great job in explaining your points. :)[/quote] I miss the days of Halo 2 when the community actually got along and were creative in posting fan fictions in the H2 Forum, now it's just complaints about Armour Lock and nobody cares about a good story anymore. It's honestly the reason why Reach derailed the canon, so many "fans" just couldn't give a flying toss about anything other than the next enemy to shoot.

Macles0007 and ajw34307 As another member who reads and follows the novels story, I 100% agree with your views. You show relevant experience in these fields and aren't quick to make assumptions while throwing inconsistent facts around. Much to the dismay of other users. I could say 5 years ago there were much more people like you guys, when the community on B.net was actually a community. But with the casual appeal to Reach, the quality of the members are dwindling down and down to the point where they will accept any crap Bungie gives them. I applaud you guys for analysing this from a historical view, looking at both sides, the novel in contrast to the game and then making a overall conclusion. Rather then blindly opening your mouths like the rest of the new wave of the community. I guess the Bungie Universe forums are where the actual intellectuals roam now since the Reach forum has been overrun with these "Know-it-all quick" kids. *sigh Anyways great job in explaining your points. :)

Here's a quote from [url=http://www.haloreachisnotcanon.net/battutareview/]this[/url] site. "You can argue that game supersedes books. But the changes feel extraneous. I don't really care that the game contradicted the book; I care that it did so for no good reason. Why split your formerly loose-but-coherent canon in twain for no reason?" [Edited on 01.22.2011 6:08 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WaxyScorpion17 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Runemast3r Bungie created their games. They decide what they can re-write in history, not you. Not the fans.[/quote] ^This. But it's useless to argue with people that are too thick to acknowledge this.[/quote] So here's an analogy for you: You've spent 9 years building up a story, it spans over half a dozen novels and 6 games - the main 2 sources of canonical information all stored inside the Halo Story Bible. So one day, you decide to make Halo Reach. The story of which has made the canon of many of those books (which have been consistent with each other for 9 years) redundant, it's not good at all. Reach completely alienated the fans of Halo's story, it was a mandated project which has clearly not been built with longevity in mind. Reach is merely fan-service, there is nothing in it that reflects the past 9 years of hard work because it has all been retconned.

The arguement that Game canon> Book canon is just insanely frustrating. You guys realize this invalidates all canon post Reach? How would John even make it through First Strike if all the Spartans were dead? I assume were suppoused to believe Ghosts of Oynx didn't happen either? Also when would the Pillar of Autumn have time to pick up Johnson? Lets cut him from Canon too and the Johnson we see in all the Halo's is some kind of clone. Lets disregard the fact that Autumn wasn't built for in-atmosphere flying also, I guess the Autumn wouldn't have ever crashed on Halo. So to Bungie, 8 hours of Reach> The 100+ hours of content past Halo: Reach. It's just a nice -blam!- you to your fans, writers and partners. Rant over.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Runemast3r Bungie created their games. They decide what they can re-write in history, not you. Not the fans.[/quote] ^This. But it's useless to argue with people that are too thick to acknowledge this.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Krisman2007 All I can say is, Game Canon > Book Canon. All the time, every time, no matter the situation.[/quote]Even when the Fall of Reach was released before Halo CE?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Runemast3r You probably don't know about the REVISED book canon. Which is set to fit with Halo: Reach.[/quote] Christ, did you even read my post above? The Fall of Reach "rewrite" changed [i]nothing[/i], it added an extra section talking about Winter Contingency and that's it. [quote]Bungie created their games. They decide what they can re-write in history, not you. Not the fans.[/quote] They created the games, yes. They created and endorsed the novels too, Reach retconned the story of 3 novels in favour of a shyte replacement where even the Halo Story Bible becomes worthless, now 343 are left to pick up the pieces.

All I can say is, Game Canon > Book Canon. All the time, every time, no matter the situation.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ThirstyAvenge All Halo canon (the books and the games) revolve around the Halo Story Bible.[/quote] Halo Reach doesn't fit into the established Story Bible at all. The Fall of Reach, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx were written with reference to the Story Bible and the original source material provided by Bungie, Reach is vastly different to the novel and breaks the canon established over 9 years for no good reason. Bungie got lazy.

You probably don't know about the REVISED book canon. Which is set to fit with Halo: Reach. Bungie created their games. They decide what they can re-write in history, not you. Not the fans.

All major franchises do this. Check Star Wars books...some MASSIVE inconsistencies in those things...

All Halo canon (the books and the games) revolve around the Halo Story Bible.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] McAngusYoung The book The Fall of Reach is actually being rewritten to match the game so problem solved.[/quote] Why does everyone say this when it isn't true? The Fall of Reach "rewrite" was released [i]months[/i] ago, it did nothing to fix any previous inconsistencies, did nothing to help explain why the game -blam!- up 9 years worth of canon and added in an extra section talking about Winter Contingency. OP: Halsey in Reach was utter bollocks, if one considers that she would have to be in 2 places at once for the game to be correct. When Noble meet her under SWORD Base, she should actually be several thousand miles away briefing Red Team on Operation Red Flag. It gets worse, the whereabouts of the Autumn were accounted for. While the Chief and Linda where going after the NAV database on the Circumference, the Autumn was taking out the Covenant Sniper Ship. You don't honestly expect me to believe that in [i]31 minutes[/i] (0616 Hours, Chief, Linda, James leave the Autumn - 0647 Hours Cortana mops up a few Seraphs and activates the Shaw-Fujikawa engines) the Autumn chases down a Covenant ship, slingshots around a planet to get back to Reach (at this point Keyes actually contacts the Chief, saying he is on his way directly to pick him up), instead he gets a call from command telling him to land back on Reach, he lands on Reach, waits for Noble 6 to arrive, waits for Six to take out several waves of Covenant, picks up the fragment from Six and leaves the planet and still makes it to the rendezvous point in time. All this in under 31 minutes. According to Reach, a gigantic, pink-glowing Covenant strike force was able to chill out in a big valley that was in a region that the UNSC knew Covenant forces were in, but it took them SEVERAL WEEKS to bother to send a recon team in to find it. Nevermind that the area should have been under constant surveillance that entire time, and probably effectively was given the then-friendly militia presence in the area (In the hills above the strike force. But apparantly, when the recon force went through only a few hundred yards from a really good view of the pink glowing area, they knew nothing. Yeah okay whatever... But no, the pink glow which would have easily been visible from orbit managed to evade everyone the entire time with the excuse that it was under a grid of active camouflage. What bollocks, Covenant camouflage generators produce massive amounts of heat, with Reach being the UNSC military stronghold HOW did they not spot it from orbit? And even then, [i]why[/i] didn't ONI enact the Cole Protocol like they did planet after planet when they were discovered by the Covenant? Making the battle of Reach a month has had nothing but negative domino effects on Halo's canon. Reach was a Class-A botch job.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] All yr friendz Bungie has the Bible. they made cannon. therefore if they say Reach is cannon it is. it's there world, we just get to visit[/quote] This. I wish everyone of the "Reach canon complainers" could read this. No offense to the Op ofcourse because his argument actually makes sense.

Books are based off the games, so yea, game canon > book canon.

acording to the books the guns of 100's of meters. in the games it is no where near, because of gamepley. so i think book cannon > game cannon because game cannon can be wrong for gameplay purposes.