Most of Halsey's journal explains the canon quite well.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....[/quote] Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face. Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted. To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.[/quote] emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes. Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.[/quote] And I will point to his failure of a death as proof, but I've argued that far too many times and frankly I'm sick of it. I concede that a large part is based on my own perspective, clearly one of the minority, but even then Halo: Reach stands as one of the most non-sensical campaign stories for a Halo game so far. Alpha, nice sarcastic comment, totally made your point there...[/quote] sarcastic comment? he does what hes told throughout the campaign. And if i remember right, he never questions his orders.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....[/quote] Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face. Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted. To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.[/quote] emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes. Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.[/quote] And I will point to his failure of a death as proof, but I've argued that far too many times and frankly I'm sick of it. I concede that a large part is based on my own perspective, clearly one of the minority, but even then Halo: Reach stands as one of the most non-sensical campaign stories for a Halo game so far. Alpha, nice sarcastic comment, totally made your point there...

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I guess you guys might have a point, i might have been looking too much into this. However i just can't seem to put myself into believing that a solider with a lifetime of training will behave how noble team behaved. I truly cringe when i see Jorge leaping to protect that civillian with the zealots arrive. How Jun's chattiness annoys me during the nightfall. How Halsey behaves around Noble Team and how Noble Team interact with each other. [/quote] No worries, just a matter of perspective, and we all have one. Jorge could be emotionally conflicted because he was born on Reach. It's personal for him. As for Halsey, I dunno, based on her personality from the novels, I think she was more curiously amused at Noble's bravado. When Halsey says "Are you threatening me?" to Carter, I took it that she was slightly amused that he would challenge her at all, and because he did she gave him a deferred bit of respect-she didn't push the issue.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen You just don't get it. Have you read the novels? Do you understand the nature of special-force groups? The discipline involved? In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan. Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait. [/quote] Kurt's emphatic qualities to other Spartans and UNSC soldiers could be seen as a detrimental personality trait. He feels compassion, which could drastically affect his reasoning on the battlefield. Yet he stayed in. And wound up leading the SIII's. No way he should be a Spartan. See how easy it is? Spartan IIIs are not the Spartan IIs that were in Halo. The criteria for them was far less stringent than SIIs, so personality traits are less of a concern anyways, since SIII's were built to do one thing. Die on missions and be replaced. Quickly. [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa The portrayal of Spartans in the novels and the games have never agreed, the games the Spartans are all much more human, and certainly not emotionless robots. For instance, Master Chief, in the books he is pretty much a blank slate with absolutely no personality saying sir all the time to any superior, whereas in the games he is much more relaxed, respectful, but definitely relaxed around his superiors, like with Lord Hood he almost added "sir" as an after thought. And he spouts off oneliners giving a sense of humor of sorts, something he [i]never[/i] does in the books. You are reading far too much into this, yes, you may not like the game, that's fine, but don't go touting what you believe and hold as an opinion as the absolute fact.[/quote] I guess you guys might have a point, i might have been looking too much into this. However i just can't seem to put myself into believing that a solider with a lifetime of training will behave how noble team behaved. I truly cringe when i see Jorge leaping to protect that civillian with the zealots arrive. How Jun's chattiness annoys me during the nightfall. How Halsey behaves around Noble Team and how Noble Team interact with each other. It's the little things i guess. But yeah, it's just my opinion in the end. But i can't draw a line between a Marine and a Spartan anymore. Beyond the suit and physical characteristics.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....[/quote] Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face. Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted. To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.[/quote] emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes. Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.[/quote] You just don't get it. Have you read the novels? Do you understand the nature of special-force groups? The discipline involved? In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan. Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait. In the end it's just a game, but it's a real shame that Bungie had to cater them this way so they could appeal to the casual audience.I see you have no issue with it, that's fine, that's your view. But i would rather follow a story that is consistent with its themes. The legendary characterization of a Spartan in Halo Canon had not been consistent with Reach. That's all.[/quote] The portrayal of Spartans in the novels and the games have never agreed, the games the Spartans are all much more human, and certainly not emotionless robots. For instance, Master Chief, in the books he is pretty much a blank slate with absolutely no personality saying sir all the time to any superior, whereas in the games he is much more relaxed, respectful, but definitely relaxed around his superiors, like with Lord Hood he almost added "sir" as an after thought. And he spouts off oneliners giving a sense of humor of sorts, something he [i]never[/i] does in the books. You are reading far too much into this, yes, you may not like the game, that's fine, but don't go touting what you believe and hold as an opinion as the absolute fact. [Edited on 01.22.2011 6:08 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen You just don't get it. Have you read the novels? Do you understand the nature of special-force groups? The discipline involved? In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan. Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait. [/quote] Kurt's emphatic qualities to other Spartans and UNSC soldiers could be seen as a detrimental personality trait. He feels compassion, which could drastically affect his reasoning on the battlefield. Yet he stayed in. And wound up leading the SIII's. No way he should be a Spartan. See how easy it is? Spartan IIIs are not the Spartan IIs that were in Halo. The criteria for them was far less stringent than SIIs, so personality traits are less of a concern anyways, since SIII's were built to do one thing. Die on missions and be replaced. Quickly.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....[/quote] Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face. Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted. To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.[/quote] emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes. Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3.[/quote] You just don't get it. Have you read the novels? Do you understand the nature of special-force groups? The discipline involved? In Halo, Spartans were as close to perfect soldiers as a human could be. Emile could pass off as an ODST at best, so could Jun. Hell, buck would be more fitting as a Spartan. Not just in combat ability.But in personality and trait. In the end it's just a game, but it's a real shame that Bungie had to cater them this way so they could appeal to the casual audience.I see you have no issue with it, that's fine, that's your view. But i would rather follow a story that is consistent with its themes. The legendary characterization of a Spartan in Halo Canon had not been consistent with Reach. That's all.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.[/quote] How you claim to understand the details for a Spartan's psychological profile, we will never know.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....[/quote] Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face. Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted. To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know.[/quote] emile follows all orders without question. And he sacrifices himself so that six could give cortana to keyes. Just because he made a comment to jorge or insults the covenant doesn't mean that he isn't a good soldier. He could easily stand toe to toe with any other spartan 3. [Edited on 01.22.2011 5:35 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....[/quote] Twitchy=/= disrespectful or cocky. Their attitude was the important part. They acted like a team and followed orders without a question. They acted like Spartans, who are NOT supposed to be like average humans; the point of Spartans is that they are unaffected or at least less affected by distractions that normal humans face. Kelly may have expressed concerns on their twichiness, but she later learns that they're still Spartans when one sacrificed their life to save her, so really, that comment would be retracted. To Alf again...people are all different, but Spartan training is supposed to make trainees into perfect soldiers, or as close to that as possible. Part of that means that character flaws such as overconfidence should not exist, much less encouraged. How Emile was chosen to be on Noble Team with his deficiencies, we will never know. [Edited on 01.22.2011 5:25 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 What it comes down to is this. If bungie made all the Spartans look and act the same, and made reach fall in a day. The campaign would have been crap. You wouldn't be able to distinguish between the Spartans unless they were talking, and you wouldn't be able to see as many locations like space and stuff. [/quote] They could have made them professional. Much like all Spartans-II and III prior. The campaign even when stretched out was just lacking any real desperateness and helplessness. The sense of urgency is never present. I'm looking for the quality of the time spent in Reach not the quantity. The "identical" Spartans could also take off their helmets, much like the intro of the package in Halo Legends to distinguish them. Locations like space and stuff? You mean the 15 minuite dragged out space event in which you shoot banshees and a frigate engine? The one that's been marketed for months on advertisements as being a innovative change to Halo's gameplay. Woah Space Battles!!! YAY..... yeah you said it. Stuff. We sure wanted to fight in a farm and oh and then a shiny city. Great Stuff the kind of things great games all encompass. I'm sure Halo:Ce had as much variety with it's jungles, snow terrain, deserts covenant ships, forerunner structures, flood infected maps. All brand new concepts, just like Reach right? Please, if you're gonna bring in the "what it come down to" at least bring in attributes seen previously which could supplement the game. Instead of argue against any possible further downfalls. Afterall we all wanted the game to be great. It fell short of what 1, 2 and 3 achieved in the gaming community. Not just campaign wise, but that's a separate issue and slightly off-topic. LOL "the campaign would have been crap" you have obviously not thought about how relating any of the substance with the novels to the game, could have supplemented the story.Big Time.[/quote] Compared to what? fighting in a city the whole time because they didnt have time to go anywhere else? Sounds fun, seven hours in one environment. And the Spartans are professional, some slight changes had to be made to give them personality. I mean really, you cant honestly be suggesting that reach would have been better with six master chiefs (No emotion and filled with one liners). [Edited on 01.22.2011 4:45 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kit_103 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II 1)Somehow during the battle when the UNSC desperatley needed every ship they can have to combat the covies and yet they use a few of them just to being down the Autumn?Doesn't makes any sense[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa 1. I believe that Kit probably wasn't talking Ship of the Line combat sort of ships, probably something small and like those rocket tugships we saw getting the Autumn off the ground.[/quote] Pretty much this. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II -No just no. It hasn't anything to do with just dates. Explain me how Halsey was talking to the sII's during the operation red flag briefing on the 27th of august. According to Jun Red Team was reassigned to civilian bla bla on the 23th of August.Why continue with the red flag briefing if you are in the middle of war? And SWORD base was occupied by the covies at the 23th as well.Said by Jun as well So please tell me how did Halsey talked with her sII's on the 27th if she was stuck in sword base between the 14th and 29th of August???[/quote] I'd probably go with video communication. Pull them from their duties for a short bit, brief them on the the objective and let them go. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II -The entire vierry territoy was at war on the 12th,it's the size of a large continent.You think civilians wouldn't have noticed that?[/quote] Considering that the Viery region was nothing more then wastelands...that's a simple cover up. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II -The supercarrier destroying the UNSC fleet at Reach,something the civilians should have noticed as well -New alexandira -..many more[/quote] Of course people are gonna notice that, especially at the end of LNoS. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II ONI couldn't have kept it a secret,but why not evacuate civilians?Last time i checked UNSC would always evacuate civilans if a planet get's attacked.And the cole protocl has not been used??Why????Give me one good reason for all of this.[/quote] You just took out an assault carrier (or whatever the frack it's called) along with anything else on the ground. Pretty sure one would be feeling mighty victorious at that point. What's the point of evacing civvies when you "won"? And I was under the impression Winter Contingency was higher priority then the Cole Protocol. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II This games contradicts with all forms of previous canon,even with Halo ce and with the journal. This game is a total disaster.[/quote] Doesn't contradict Halo CE. It fits in perfectly. It does however, screw things up in the book. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II Why do bungie fans don't admit this,Reach wtfpwned the Halo canon.[/quote] It wtfpwned the last bit of [i]FoR[/i] and the beginning of [i]FS[/i]. Everything else is intact. We're gonna have to assume that Jun dies before reaching Castle Base, which would save [i]GoO[/i]. I won't take legendary commentary as canon IMO. I willing admit that yes, this game has screwed up canon. I won't argue against that. But it's fixable. Fix the dates. Fix how encounters went down. It's gonna be a messy job yes and people aren't gonna like it but in the end...it'll work. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma3150 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kit_103 True, I have problem with a month long invasion but starting said attack somewhere in mid-August? I would have been fine with that IMO.[/quote]The actual invasion started in Mid-August. The Covenant encountered before the ending cutscene of the level [i]Long Night of Solace[/i] were more or less an expeditionary force.[/quote] True true. Thanks for the catch. [/quote] I am, for the most part, in agreement with most of what you are saying. I suppose my title is not entirely accurate, since things will have to be reworked, it was more for an attention grab. The previous sequence of events has been contradicted and has to be reworked, but it is not so broken that nothing can ever be done to fix it. And it most certainly is not at the point where either TFoR or Reach must be declared non-canon, it's just a mess that will take a bit of effort to straighten out. [quote]And Coma, I like you already. ^^ [/quote] Haha, thanks, you seem pretty cool yourself :)

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] Did they? Kelly didn't trust them because of their unpredictability and twitchy nature. Kurt, conversing with Doctor Halsey, admitted that some of the enhancements would make the SIII's a bit twitchy, to the point where once the adrenaline was pumping hard enough that they would lose mental focus and become dangerous, even to themselves. The short story "Headhunters" shows that SIII's aren't exactly paragons of the Spartan program.....

The entire Novel was not "scrapped" parts of it are still valid and were not overwritten by Reach quit over reacting

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert exacly rech falling in a month is scary in a way imagine this your on the other side of reach the navy you all fine but you see the army moving arou alot you leave it untill August 30th when 700 ships attack you think wow the army ONI didnt even tell the whole of reach covenant was attacking the viery terrtory, or take into the marines account they wipe out the last of the advance party they cheer untill they get word of the 700 covenant ships swarming in. Your heart would sink to the depths of hell,[/quote] Reach falling in a month is bollocks, plain and simple. [i]Every[/i] other source of canon over the past 9 years has said it fell in a day, that's much more fearful than a month. In Halo Evolutions: Dirt, everyone is surprised to hear that Reach has just fallen, but in the game ONI cover up the invasion for a month and don't even enact the Cole Protocol. It takes them a good week to actually formulate a defence force. And hell, there wasn't anywhere near 750 Covenant ships seen in the game, the most you see is about 7 exit slipspace in LNoS. And even then [i]where are the Orbital MACs?[/i] Making the battle a month long has done nothing but bring up negative repercussions on the rest of Halo's canon, Reach - humanity's military centre and the second-last bastion - falling in a day was much more of a terrifying affair because it all happened so quick.[/quote] No, falling in a couple hours is bullocks, especially when all other planets lasted [i][b]FAR[/b][/i] longer. Does Dirt just say mention Reach falling in passing without any real details? Or does talk about it for a bit? I haven't read it yet.[/quote]With the majority of other planets, the Covenant try to eliminate the human presence with ground forces first. They usually only glass if the ground battles are taking too long, or they're losing. This is outlined in one of the novels, even a specific battle. [i]Fall of Reach[i] I believe. [quote]Hardly, if there's any covering up at all, it would [i]only[/i] be [i]before[/i] the Long Night of Solace decloaks and starts raining down fiery death everywhere. [i]After[/i] we find out about it is when the evactuations and such would start happening. As for the Cole Protocol, as I've always understood it is that it wasn't enacted unless the Covies were right on the doorstep. Like for instance in First Strike the Cole Protocol is not enacted on CASTLE Base until the Covenant are banging on the door and digging their way in.[/quote]The Cole Protocol was to be enacted at the first sign of Covenant activity. That means the moment you detect them on long range scanners. [quote]You obviously have no conception of how long it takes to mobilize sufficient forces for a large military op. And it didn't take a week to gather forces, I assume you are referring to Tip of the Spear, and that level happens [i]right[/i] after the Nightfall mission. And as for the ships, we only get to see a couple before the satellite feed cuts out, but they're still coming in, you can see more of the slipspace rupture auras right as it's cutting out.And it never was 750 Covenant ships there, it's the same as it always was 300-something ships. We don't see the Orbital SMACs because they have nothing to do with Noble Team's story, and they wouldn't spend time on something that doesn't further the story being told.[/quote]Actually, the edited version of [i]FoR[/i] says ~750 ships. But I guess that doesn't count anyways, since the rest of the novel gets scrapped too.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 What it comes down to is this. If bungie made all the Spartans look and act the same, and made reach fall in a day. The campaign would have been crap. You wouldn't be able to distinguish between the Spartans unless they were talking, and you wouldn't be able to see as many locations like space and stuff. [/quote] They could have made them professional. Much like all Spartans-II and III prior. The campaign even when stretched out was just lacking any real desperateness and helplessness. The sense of urgency is never present. I'm looking for the quality of the time spent in Reach not the quantity. The "identical" Spartans could also take off their helmets, much like the intro of the package in Halo Legends to distinguish them. Locations like space and stuff? You mean the 15 minuite dragged out space event in which you shoot banshees and a frigate engine? The one that's been marketed for months on advertisements as being a innovative change to Halo's gameplay. Woah Space Battles!!! YAY..... yeah you said it. Stuff. We sure wanted to fight in a farm and oh and then a shiny city. Great Stuff the kind of things great games all encompass. I'm sure Halo:Ce had as much variety with it's jungles, snow terrain, deserts covenant ships, forerunner structures, flood infected maps. All brand new concepts, just like Reach right? Please, if you're gonna bring in the "what it come down to" at least bring in attributes seen previously which could supplement the game. Instead of argue against any possible further downfalls. Afterall we all wanted the game to be great. It fell short of what 1, 2 and 3 achieved in the gaming community. Not just campaign wise, but that's a separate issue and slightly off-topic. LOL "the campaign would have been crap" you have obviously not thought about how relating any of the substance with the novels to the game, could have supplemented the story.Big Time. [Edited on 01.22.2011 4:04 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrMod Bunige never said that Reach was TFOR:The Game did they you simply "assumed" it would be. [/quote] Somewhat, since the whole concept was based on Reach. A planet only explained by the novels. With the introduction of Noble Team, i had suspected that the general summary of the novel would be mentioned indirectly as Noble Team is no where present in the Pre-established Canon. However to my dismay. I found out that Noble Team, was a bunch of Power Rangers, each with their own 90210 emotional teenage angst issues. Reach ,the planet, was in fact a rival to Harvest into which looked more crap and rural. The city was a nice homage to Halo Wars's Arcadia. But that's beyond the point. Reach was a military planet. It this game it wasn't.Simple as. So far off from it, it might have been on any other off-world planet. But the fact they marketed it as Reach, adds to Bungie's failure. The story had been changed. I'm not going to go into detail but dates were thrown around and nonsensical events happened for the sake of adding it to gameplay. They had killed the whole image of Spartans with the attitudes and actions of noble team. They pictured Halsey as self-centered, jealous and even a somewhat crazy cat-owning lady at one point. Halsey in all the novel adaptation has been seen as a respectable, do not cross figure. In this game the under qualified "special-ops" team are flying 1-up comments left and right at her. For example, in Ghost of Onyx, she had made sure to gain the new Spartan-III's respect even though they weren't hers. In the novels S-III's even acted like military personal, with a lifetime of training. They spoke when spoken too and had utmost respect and were always one step ahead of the game. I could kill this whole concept with 1 character in Reach. Emile. Ever heard of discipline? Who talks to a squadmate in disgust even if they were in competition. Very Un-Spartan like. Let me add another one. Jorge- For a Spartan Solidier who had combat for 20 years, he sure is the opposite of what you would expect from any solidier. He's too emotionally attached and even sometimes tactically retarded. The end of the 1st level for example: he throws himself down to protect 1 civilian who had been the least targeted person in the room. He could have been stabbed at that time. What pure stupidity. Spartan's beside "noble team" were not even present in the campaign apart from the last level in which they were tacked on with no explanation what-so ever. Why? Because bungie could that's why. :( I could go on and on... It's just that overall bitter resentment i feel for Bungie now. How they turned their back on fans who had invested their time into the novels is evident in every cutscene. through the actions of characters and events of that were based towards an audience that didn't care for backstory. Before I finish. Let me just point out 1 more thing. Tip of the Spear. The one battle cutscene that summarized this entire game's campaign experience. Disappointment. One of the worst campaign storyline i've ever been following. Well at least there is Mass Effect 3 to fill in the void of great science-fiction writing in-game.[/quote] What it comes down to is this. If bungie made all the Spartans look and act the same, and made reach fall in a day. The campaign would have been crap. You wouldn't be able to distinguish between the Spartans unless they were talking, and you wouldn't be able to see as many locations like space and stuff. [/quote] They didn't need to make all Spartans identical. They needed to make them professional and with their own distinctions. That goes with Halsey as well. And Reach officially fell in a day, but the ground battle, as proven by First Strike, was still happening after that. As well, if Bungie really made use of the time and came up with innovative events, they could have made the entire story ten times better, but as it stands it got worse than before. To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different?[/quote] because even in military people will be different, and they did dont come and whine about "OH THEIR NOT SPARTANS BECASUE THEY DIED LIKE IDIOTS" to those who think this if you were in there situation not knowing what was Going to happend would you do the same? peope arae whining over how there dying is stupid and such but you know the outcome so you nitpick on it if you were there as a spartan you would be lost and confused.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrMod Bunige never said that Reach was TFOR:The Game did they you simply "assumed" it would be. [/quote] Somewhat, since the whole concept was based on Reach. A planet only explained by the novels. With the introduction of Noble Team, i had suspected that the general summary of the novel would be mentioned indirectly as Noble Team is no where present in the Pre-established Canon. However to my dismay. I found out that Noble Team, was a bunch of Power Rangers, each with their own 90210 emotional teenage angst issues. Reach ,the planet, was in fact a rival to Harvest into which looked more crap and rural. The city was a nice homage to Halo Wars's Arcadia. But that's beyond the point. Reach was a military planet. It this game it wasn't.Simple as. So far off from it, it might have been on any other off-world planet. But the fact they marketed it as Reach, adds to Bungie's failure. The story had been changed. I'm not going to go into detail but dates were thrown around and nonsensical events happened for the sake of adding it to gameplay. They had killed the whole image of Spartans with the attitudes and actions of noble team. They pictured Halsey as self-centered, jealous and even a somewhat crazy cat-owning lady at one point. Halsey in all the novel adaptation has been seen as a respectable, do not cross figure. In this game the under qualified "special-ops" team are flying 1-up comments left and right at her. For example, in Ghost of Onyx, she had made sure to gain the new Spartan-III's respect even though they weren't hers. In the novels S-III's even acted like military personal, with a lifetime of training. They spoke when spoken too and had utmost respect and were always one step ahead of the game. I could kill this whole concept with 1 character in Reach. Emile. Ever heard of discipline? Who talks to a squadmate in disgust even if they were in competition. Very Un-Spartan like. Let me add another one. Jorge- For a Spartan Solidier who had combat for 20 years, he sure is the opposite of what you would expect from any solidier. He's too emotionally attached and even sometimes tactically retarded. The end of the 1st level for example: he throws himself down to protect 1 civilian who had been the least targeted person in the room. He could have been stabbed at that time. What pure stupidity. Spartan's beside "noble team" were not even present in the campaign apart from the last level in which they were tacked on with no explanation what-so ever. Why? Because bungie could that's why. :( I could go on and on... It's just that overall bitter resentment i feel for Bungie now. How they turned their back on fans who had invested their time into the novels is evident in every cutscene. through the actions of characters and events of that were based towards an audience that didn't care for backstory. Before I finish. Let me just point out 1 more thing. Tip of the Spear. The one battle cutscene that summarized this entire game's campaign experience. Disappointment. One of the worst campaign storyline i've ever been following. Well at least there is Mass Effect 3 to fill in the void of great science-fiction writing in-game.[/quote] What it comes down to is this. If bungie made all the Spartans look and act the same, and made reach fall in a day. The campaign would have been crap. You wouldn't be able to distinguish between the Spartans unless they were talking, and you wouldn't be able to see as many locations like space and stuff. [/quote] They didn't need to make all Spartans identical. They needed to make them professional and with their own distinctions. That goes with Halsey as well. And Reach officially fell in a day, but the ground battle, as proven by First Strike, was still happening after that. As well, if Bungie really made use of the time and came up with innovative events, they could have made the entire story ten times better, but as it stands it got worse than before. To Alf...did you even read his post? He mentioned the Spartan IIIs on Onyx, which was from Gamma company and therefore THE youngest Spartan IIIs of all. Even they acted like military professionals, why would Noble team be different? [Edited on 01.22.2011 3:35 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrMod Bunige never said that Reach was TFOR:The Game did they you simply "assumed" it would be. [/quote] Somewhat, since the whole concept was based on Reach. A planet only explained by the novels. With the introduction of Noble Team, i had suspected that the general summary of the novel would be mentioned indirectly as Noble Team is no where present in the Pre-established Canon. However to my dismay. I found out that Noble Team, was a bunch of Power Rangers, each with their own 90210 emotional teenage angst issues. Reach ,the planet, was in fact a rival to Harvest into which looked more crap and rural. The city was a nice homage to Halo Wars's Arcadia. But that's beyond the point. Reach was a military planet. It this game it wasn't.Simple as. So far off from it, it might have been on any other off-world planet. But the fact they marketed it as Reach, adds to Bungie's failure. The story had been changed. I'm not going to go into detail but dates were thrown around and nonsensical events happened for the sake of adding it to gameplay. They had killed the whole image of Spartans with the attitudes and actions of noble team. They pictured Halsey as self-centered, jealous and even a somewhat crazy cat-owning lady at one point. Halsey in all the novel adaptation has been seen as a respectable, do not cross figure. In this game the under qualified "special-ops" team are flying 1-up comments left and right at her. For example, in Ghost of Onyx, she had made sure to gain the new Spartan-III's respect even though they weren't hers. In the novels S-III's even acted like military personal, with a lifetime of training. They spoke when spoken too and had utmost respect and were always one step ahead of the game. I could kill this whole concept with 1 character in Reach. Emile. Ever heard of discipline? Who talks to a squadmate in disgust even if they were in competition. Very Un-Spartan like. Let me add another one. Jorge- For a Spartan Solidier who had combat for 20 years, he sure is the opposite of what you would expect from any solidier. He's too emotionally attached and even sometimes tactically retarded. The end of the 1st level for example: he throws himself down to protect 1 civilian who had been the least targeted person in the room. He could have been stabbed at that time. What pure stupidity. Spartan's beside "noble team" were not even present in the campaign apart from the last level in which they were tacked on with no explanation what-so ever. Why? Because bungie could that's why. :( I could go on and on... It's just that overall bitter resentment i feel for Bungie now. How they turned their back on fans who had invested their time into the novels is evident in every cutscene. through the actions of characters and events of that were based towards an audience that didn't care for backstory. Before I finish. Let me just point out 1 more thing. Tip of the Spear. The one battle cutscene that summarized this entire game's campaign experience. Disappointment. One of the worst campaign storyline i've ever been following. Well at least there is Mass Effect 3 to fill in the void of great science-fiction writing in-game.[/quote] thing is spartan 3's are younger so there going to be Cocky and different in a sense

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrMod Bunige never said that Reach was TFOR:The Game did they you simply "assumed" it would be. [/quote] Somewhat, since the whole concept was based on Reach. A planet only explained by the novels. With the introduction of Noble Team, i had suspected that the general summary of the novel would be mentioned indirectly as Noble Team is no where present in the Pre-established Canon. However to my dismay. I found out that Noble Team, was a bunch of Power Rangers, each with their own 90210 emotional teenage angst issues. Reach ,the planet, was in fact a rival to Harvest into which looked more crap and rural. The city was a nice homage to Halo Wars's Arcadia. But that's beyond the point. Reach was a military planet. It this game it wasn't.Simple as. So far off from it, it might have been on any other off-world planet. But the fact they marketed it as Reach, adds to Bungie's failure. The story had been changed. I'm not going to go into detail but dates were thrown around and nonsensical events happened for the sake of adding it to gameplay. They had killed the whole image of Spartans with the attitudes and actions of noble team. They pictured Halsey as self-centered, jealous and even a somewhat crazy cat-owning lady at one point. Halsey in all the novel adaptation has been seen as a respectable, do not cross figure. In this game the under qualified "special-ops" team are flying 1-up comments left and right at her. For example, in Ghost of Onyx, she had made sure to gain the new Spartan-III's respect even though they weren't hers. In the novels S-III's even acted like military personal, with a lifetime of training. They spoke when spoken too and had utmost respect and were always one step ahead of the game. I could kill this whole concept with 1 character in Reach. Emile. Ever heard of discipline? Who talks to a squadmate in disgust even if they were in competition. Very Un-Spartan like. Let me add another one. Jorge- For a Spartan Solidier who had combat for 20 years, he sure is the opposite of what you would expect from any solidier. He's too emotionally attached and even sometimes tactically retarded. The end of the 1st level for example: he throws himself down to protect 1 civilian who had been the least targeted person in the room. He could have been stabbed at that time. What pure stupidity. Spartan's beside "noble team" were not even present in the campaign apart from the last level in which they were tacked on with no explanation what-so ever. Why? Because bungie could that's why. :( I could go on and on... It's just that overall bitter resentment i feel for Bungie now. How they turned their back on fans who had invested their time into the novels is evident in every cutscene. through the actions of characters and events of that were based towards an audience that didn't care for backstory. Before I finish. Let me just point out 1 more thing. Tip of the Spear. The one battle cutscene that summarized this entire game's campaign experience. Disappointment. One of the worst campaign storyline i've ever been following. Well at least there is Mass Effect 3 to fill in the void of great science-fiction writing in-game.[/quote] What it comes down to is this. If bungie made all the Spartans look and act the same, and made reach fall in a day. The campaign would have been crap. You wouldn't be able to distinguish between the Spartans unless they were talking, and you wouldn't be able to see as many locations like space and stuff.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II 1)Somehow during the battle when the UNSC desperatley needed every ship they can have to combat the covies and yet they use a few of them just to being down the Autumn?Doesn't makes any sense[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa 1. I believe that Kit probably wasn't talking Ship of the Line combat sort of ships, probably something small and like those rocket tugships we saw getting the Autumn off the ground.[/quote] Pretty much this. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II -No just no. It hasn't anything to do with just dates. Explain me how Halsey was talking to the sII's during the operation red flag briefing on the 27th of august. According to Jun Red Team was reassigned to civilian bla bla on the 23th of August.Why continue with the red flag briefing if you are in the middle of war? And SWORD base was occupied by the covies at the 23th as well.Said by Jun as well So please tell me how did Halsey talked with her sII's on the 27th if she was stuck in sword base between the 14th and 29th of August???[/quote] I'd probably go with video communication. Pull them from their duties for a short bit, brief them on the the objective and let them go. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II -The entire vierry territoy was at war on the 12th,it's the size of a large continent.You think civilians wouldn't have noticed that?[/quote] Considering that the Viery region was nothing more then wastelands...that's a simple cover up. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II -The supercarrier destroying the UNSC fleet at Reach,something the civilians should have noticed as well -New alexandira -..many more[/quote] Of course people are gonna notice that, especially at the end of LNoS. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II ONI couldn't have kept it a secret,but why not evacuate civilians?Last time i checked UNSC would always evacuate civilans if a planet get's attacked.And the cole protocl has not been used??Why????Give me one good reason for all of this.[/quote] You just took out an assault carrier (or whatever the frack it's called) along with anything else on the ground. Pretty sure one would be feeling mighty victorious at that point. What's the point of evacing civvies when you "won"? And I was under the impression Winter Contingency was higher priority then the Cole Protocol. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II This games contradicts with all forms of previous canon,even with Halo ce and with the journal. This game is a total disaster.[/quote] Doesn't contradict Halo CE. It fits in perfectly. It does however, screw things up in the book. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II Why do bungie fans don't admit this,Reach wtfpwned the Halo canon.[/quote] It wtfpwned the last bit of [i]FoR[/i] and the beginning of [i]FS[/i]. Everything else is intact. We're gonna have to assume that Jun dies before reaching Castle Base, which would save [i]GoO[/i]. I won't take legendary commentary as canon IMO. I willing admit that yes, this game has screwed up canon. I won't argue against that. But it's fixable. Fix the dates. Fix how encounters went down. It's gonna be a messy job yes and people aren't gonna like it but in the end...it'll work. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Plasma3150 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kit_103 True, I have problem with a month long invasion but starting said attack somewhere in mid-August? I would have been fine with that IMO.[/quote]The actual invasion started in Mid-August. The Covenant encountered before the ending cutscene of the level [i]Long Night of Solace[/i] were more or less an expeditionary force.[/quote] True true. Thanks for the catch. And Coma, I like you already. ^^

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrMod Bunige never said that Reach was TFOR:The Game did they you simply "assumed" it would be. [/quote] Somewhat, since the whole concept was based on Reach. A planet only explained by the novels. With the introduction of Noble Team, i had suspected that the general summary of the novel would be mentioned indirectly as Noble Team is no where present in the Pre-established Canon. However to my dismay. I found out that Noble Team, was a bunch of Power Rangers, each with their own 90210 emotional teenage angst issues. Reach ,the planet, was in fact a rival to Harvest into which looked more crap and rural. The city was a nice homage to Halo Wars's Arcadia. But that's beyond the point. Reach was a military planet. It this game it wasn't.Simple as. So far off from it, it might have been on any other off-world planet. But the fact they marketed it as Reach, adds to Bungie's failure. The story had been changed. I'm not going to go into detail but dates were thrown around and nonsensical events happened for the sake of adding it to gameplay. They had killed the whole image of Spartans with the attitudes and actions of noble team. They pictured Halsey as self-centered, jealous and even a somewhat crazy cat-owning lady at one point. Halsey in all the novel adaptation has been seen as a respectable, do not cross figure. In this game the under qualified "special-ops" team are flying 1-up comments left and right at her. For example, in Ghost of Onyx, she had made sure to gain the new Spartan-III's respect even though they weren't hers. In the novels S-III's even acted like military personal, with a lifetime of training. They spoke when spoken too and had utmost respect and were always one step ahead of the game. I could kill this whole concept with 1 character in Reach. Emile. Ever heard of discipline? Who talks to a squadmate in disgust even if they were in competition. Very Un-Spartan like. Let me add another one. Jorge- For a Spartan Solidier who had combat for 20 years, he sure is the opposite of what you would expect from any solidier. He's too emotionally attached and even sometimes tactically retarded. The end of the 1st level for example: he throws himself down to protect 1 civilian who had been the least targeted person in the room. He could have been stabbed at that time. What pure stupidity. Spartan's beside "noble team" were not even present in the campaign apart from the last level in which they were tacked on with no explanation what-so ever. Why? Because bungie could that's why. :( I could go on and on... It's just that overall bitter resentment i feel for Bungie now. How they turned their back on fans who had invested their time into the novels is evident in every cutscene. through the actions of characters and events of that were based towards an audience that didn't care for backstory. Before I finish. Let me just point out 1 more thing. Tip of the Spear. The one battle cutscene that summarized this entire game's campaign experience. Disappointment. One of the worst campaign storyline i've ever been following. Well at least there is Mass Effect 3 to fill in the void of great science-fiction writing in-game.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] daman825 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen What i found worse was that they marketed Reach like it was a direct homage to the novel. The whole glassing,dark, and helpless serious tone and even a possible Jame's reference was seen in that trailer. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxcuSeZsEs4]Utter Dissapointment. "Thanks Bungie". You stuck by us fans....not[/url] It didn't turn out that way at all. the closest thing i can think of that had any similarity was..... The WORD Reach not even the planet. Just the WORD. Can't believe i stuck by these people in terms of campaign experience.[/quote] Wait, didnt bungie say they were going to stray from the cannon?[/quote] They didn't say that, but they did say that Reach would not be TFoR the Game. They said that Reach would be taking place on a different part of the planet than the events in TFoR.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen What i found worse was that they marketed Reach like it was a direct homage to the novel. The whole glassing,dark, and helpless serious tone and even a possible Jame's reference was seen in that trailer. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxcuSeZsEs4]Utter Dissapointment. "Thanks Bungie". You stuck by us fans....not[/url] It didn't turn out that way at all. the closest thing i can think of that had any similarity was..... The WORD Reach not even the planet. Just the WORD. Can't believe i stuck by these people in terms of campaign experience.[/quote] Wait, didnt bungie say they were going to stray from the cannon?

Bunige never said that Reach was TFOR:The Game did they you simply "assumed" it would be.