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Edited by Kiro - 13:
5/4/2024 2:28:43 PM
6
The PvP strike team is back-peddling on rewarding skill
The changes the PvP strike team said they wanted to accomplish was rewarding players for landing head shots and reduce ability spam(reward gun-play & skill) to paraphrase.
So that being said I hope this is common knowledge, more special ammo equates players being able to perform further outside of their skill band. IE the more special ammo a bad player has the better they perform.
So if Bungie was able to create a system with the following effect, the mission statement of rewarding skill would be accomplished:
[i]"The overall balance of the meter system in the wider sandbox has been concerning. It primarily benefits one player type over all others, with players who routinely perform above average in their lobbies getting the double benefits of having more Special ammo than the respawn system allowed at certain points in the game, while their opponents often have much less. In the meter system, high-performing players are earning Special ammo at 3.5 times the rate of lower-performing players, a delta which has led to many non-high-performing players abandoning Special weapons entirely. In Competitive, for example, with the meter system in use low-performing players were more likely to get kills with Heavy ammo weapons than they were with Special ammo weapons."[/i]
That statement should look familiar. However Bungie is painting this result as a negative one, which is the desired result of the PvP strike when they started to make all these changes. The PvP strike team is making a 180 now & more or less saying "bad players should be given more crutches".
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10 RepliesI think they realized it's too late in destiny 2 life cycle for balance. Destiny 3 coming soon.
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3 RepliesEdited by eeriearcade: 5/4/2024 2:20:45 PMThe idea of rewarding skill was about recognising the importance of primary gunplay and accuracy, not about creating a snowball effect with special ammo.
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[quote]So that being said I hope this is common knowledge, more special ammo equates players being able to perform further outside of their skill band. IE the more special ammo a bad player has the better they perform.[/quote] I think you're half right. The problem is that no one should be arguing that they should be getting a crap ton of ohk. It doesn't matter if they're better at the game or not, ohk serves a function within the sandbox and in the past it was one of the biggest contributors to people quitting due to the way it functions. It does appear that one of the goals for pvp has been to bring lower skilled players up relative to everyone else in the skill curve. Overall the fact that that was attempted isn't really a bad thing because eventually all it shows is how much the game has to do to make people think they're better at it than they are. It should be fairly obvious what that led to at this point so there's really no reason to go into it, but when the game looks like crap its usually for a reason. Less overall special ammo is also good because trying to raise the skill level of lower skilled players was the main catalyst for the preposterous stat inflation at the top. Now its more contained to individual matches with the ohk largely going to better players. But its still evidence that the effects of ohk need to be reduced across the board for everyone. Also, Destiny PvP is not so hard that people not performing well can't be blamed on their expectations that they should just be able to sit there and have everything done for them. That's the way this game worked way too hard for a few years and so now that's peoples' expectations. All the ohk in the world isn't going to fix that and its just going to make it worse.
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1 ReplyEdited by Seiryoku: 5/4/2024 1:25:48 PMFinding the right special ammo system is integral to the statements they made about making any of the changes in the first place. [quote][b]Sandbox Issues – Addressing Problems Across the Skill Curve[/b] ...led to a compression of the skill gap at high levels of play, along with making it very difficult for new players to find their footing in a game where many veteran players have nearly mastered the existing playstyles. As we've increased the strength and prevalence of certain sandbox elements, too often the defeated player in PvP can't understand what killed them or why. [b]We don’t want players in situations where it’s difficult to learn what to do better next time[/b]. [u]We also want to provide more encouragement for players to master their Primary gun skills.[/u] [/quote] Here you make the suggestion [quote]The PvP strike team is making a 180 now & more or less saying "bad players should be given more crutches".[/quote] But it is a complex issue that requires consideration and work at each level. They are sharing with you the numbers that show both systems have good and bad elements for the effort they want to accomplish. This requires multiple iterations and the ability to accurately interpret the data. [b]They don't want the "rich getting richer" while also encouraging more rewarding primary gameplay. [/b]They still want to give consistent special for special situations. Not as a replacement for primary. You also said [quote]IE the more special ammo a [i]bad player has the better they perform[/i]. [/quote] [b]But they are showing you that people that are EXPERIENCED with their special weapons perform exponentially better than NEW PLAYERS with access to special[/b]. And when you can get special by killing with special it compounds in a very lopsided way when factoring in types of special weapon and skill level. The people that have mastered these weapons have a OHK potential that vastly exceeds newer players. So they can't continue to be rewarded with more special for getting special kills or it snowballs. [spoiler]I don't see back peddling. I see them letting you know all the problems they are solving for us to have a better experience. [/spoiler] You said [quote]That statement should look familiar. However Bungie is painting this result as a negative one, which is the desired result of the PvP strike when they started to make all these changes.[/quote] I see them trying to avoid making certain problems worse. This isn't a black and white slap a band-aid on issue and they have done a great job explaining their reasoning. [b]The TWIDs and PvP strike team statements have been on point of late. [/b] They attempt to fix multilayered issues that affect wildly different players experiences in less than subtle ways. Most of us aren't even seeing the same game we all occupy. And we all have a different vision of what the best version would be.
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3 Replies[quote]They are making a 180 now and more or less saying "bad players should be given more crutches".[/quote] I think they should. New/bad players should enjoy playing the game as well. This is why I'm having a hard time understanding why there's such a huge uproar against skill based matchmaking. People just hate it. Then there are still a lot people (the same people?) that hate when bad people are on [i]their[/i] fireteams and call people a noob, or that they suck, or get back to fortnite, etc. Or some mechanics cater to the good / bad players, etc. It works both ways. Having SBMM on would also alleviate the issue you're pointing here. Balancing the game that all the skill, guns, loadouts, etc are level within [i]all skill levels[/i] is really hard. Wouldn't it be nicer that bad players could be playing in their skill brackets, and throw in some bots to those matches as well for people to get better? Then i.e. ammo changes would be such a big deal.
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its almost like the thing we said would happen, would happen...
