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Edited by Ama:
12/22/2023 2:15:15 AM
19
Too many accumulative ability + mod nerfs made the game effectively worse and unfun
For reference, I do everything: speedrunning, low manning raids, normal raids, GMs including duos and flawless. I play with casuals and endgame players alike.
I started in Plunder, had a blast during the elemental wells era (who didn't). Going from elemental wells to armor charge itself felt like a downgrade. And do you really think I'll be running out of cover to grab a firespite etc. in a GM where everything one shots you? Back then we had moving wells. It almost feels surreal.
Yesterday when GMs came out which I was looking forward to, I was shook: The mod and ability nerfs accumulated made most of my warlock builds feel worse, and it was especially noticeable in 25 light under content. Suspend warlock with Thorn? Worse. Contraverse Void? Fallen Sunstar arc? Worse.
The gap between insanely strong meta builds (banner of war, sunbracers etc) and 2nd tier builds became very wide with no frequent balancing in sight. And whenever Bungie balances, most exotics still feel unviable or are completely left out.
Bungie wants to roll back on ability spam and go toward more "gunplay" but every single legendary primary hits like a wet noodle. You are locked into specific loadouts (*cough cough* wishender) and now locked even more into specific builds. Ammo economy? Garbage unless you run Aeon's or Ceno. Double special was nerfed. Kickstart mods? Nerfed. Energy refund mods? Barely give energy back now. Starfire got nerfed so hard, it's not even worth running as a neutral exotic anymore. Sunbracers exists though, happily and isn't even reliant on any mods because it's that strong. And that's just speaking from a Warlock perspective.
I don't really understand the thinking behind Bungie's decision making especially after hitting such a record low with player retention and sales, it feels like it's going against everything the community wants and they want us to play the game in a very specific way.
If I want "raw gunplay" I would play COD.
(PS I'll also not forgive Bungie for killing Crota speedruns. We aren't allowed to have fun, I think.)
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1 ReplyEdited by Ogma: Destroyer of Worlds: 12/25/2023 3:21:34 PMThe thing that kills me is that they’ve said they don’t want us to stand back and plink away at enemies but then every time they make changes it just pushes us to do that even more. We get ability usage nerfs, every boss has a stomp/burn mechanic, you get one shotted by a lot things in the highest end content, etc. The game was a blast during the WQ year. The power fantasy was alive. I actually felt powerful with more than like one or two builds. I actually got and tried a lot of weapons with builds because of how much was craftable. And on top of that we were riding on one of the best, if not THE best story expansion. Now? We’re stuck in extended limbo after a bad story expansion, the power fantasy is dwindling, buildcrsfting is too plain, and all my loadouts only use raid and seasonal weapons because that’s all I can get rolls I want on because they scaled back crafting and we have very little or no player agency or bad luck protection. Player agency and bad luck protection is the most inconsistent it’s ever been. Because of this scale back of crafting we have so many weapons where your desired roll is being gatekept with unreasonable RNG while simultaneously being made inferior because they lack enhanced perks for not being craftable. Almost all adepts don’t feel with it because they can’t be enhanced and have perk pools that don’t compete with raid weapons. They wanted to “bring challenge back to Destiny” and return to the “joy” of the random drop but these changes have killed my engagement level. I’m playing a lot less. For the first time since the Lightfall launch season I spent all day yesterday farming vanguard ops and NFs. I saw not even one ritual or NF weapon drop, and no amount of focusing with Eva gave me any rolls I wanted. I’d LOVE to actually have new weapons to try out with builds but I guess I’m just stuck with the same raid and seasonal weapons I’ve been using for the past year.
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They keep killing build crafting to the point it’s basically just rely on an exotic armor piece and the artifact mods at this point.
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3 RepliesIsn’t it crazy how there are well over a HUNDRED exotic armor pieces in the game, and yet only about 10 are actually decent and 4-5 of those are best in the game? What happened to buffing Mask of the quiet one? Maybe instead of nerfing the -blam!- out of abilities across the board, rework all of the absolutely useless exotics that just take up space in the collections tab? Like seriously, why do exotics like blight ranger, second chance, winter’s guile even exist? What’s the point?
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2 RepliesLook, Double Special did need to be nerfed because it very well could have gotten to meta. Now did it deserve to be nerfed as hard as it was? No. But it did need to be nerfed.
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2 RepliesI read all that posts about the game being too hard, the latest nerfs made us weaker the new exo mission is too hard and whatever. Im just an average player (by skill) and i never felt stronger before. I was always too lazy to solo dungeons, exo missions etc. But as of this season i can literally solo everything and never feel challenged. Just my 2 cents.
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2 RepliesEdited by The Wayfarer: 12/23/2023 10:36:52 AMThey nerf the popular options because they want to balance the game, but they don't seem to understand a lot of times it's the only viable option not a good one. Something can be mediocre on a strong class and it's the only not terrible choice so Bungie nerfs it but doesn't fix the other two choices. I don't think they actually play their game. There would be more build diversity if you didn't make everything suck, they play it too safe but forgot playing it too safe has almost killed destiny three times now. Once in D1, once between Red War and Forsaken, and now. Forsaken was Bungie taking a risk and it was the peak of destiny 2.
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1 ReplyThey need to return everything to the way it was when Witch Queen was released.
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1 ReplyEdited by ArmedPalehorse: 12/21/2023 9:09:02 PMEverything they've done to slow the game, increase play time, and increase grind has only done the opposite of what was intended. It's pushing both casual and hard-core players away. Sometimes it's for different reasons. Sometimes it's for the same reasons but regardless, the results are the same. They are steadily killing all the fun. Edit: this time last year I was playing 5-7 days a week and couldn't be more excited for Lightfall. Now I play 1 or 2 days for maybe like an hour at a time and canceled The Final Shape. I never would have thunk it a year ago.
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Getting players to play longer and more often is the only goal. Have to be able to show Sony a certain level of engagement. They are only allowed to put so much on the train, so they have to artificially increase those numbers by making things take longer instead of luring them back with content. I imagine it will get worse, but maybe we’ll get lucky and get Go Fast 2.0 before the game dies from lack of players.
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1 ReplyMeanwhile I'm just sitting here wishing I could put orb generation mods on my leg armor...
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4 RepliesAgree. Why would Bungie throw a bunch of nerfs at us when they’ve seen player sentiment be run into the ground? Especially the orb nerf, it makes gameplay slower and orb-reliant builds worse. They should’ve just said in the TWAB that they’re nerfing fun. Primaries do mediocre damage, and good ability spam builds are now hindered due to orb creation taking much longer. Bungie should take into consideration that people used ability spam builds because weapons simply don’t do good enough damage, and aren’t satisfying to use most of the time. Lying down a dozen magazines to kill one orange bar isn’t fun, it’s repetitive and boring. But instead of making gunplay more appealing, they simply ruined a bunch of good builds.
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12 RepliesAgreed. The gameplay does feel worse. Build crafting is no where near as rewarding or fun because the mods do almost nothing. I play Destiny for the cool and fun space magic. Bungie likes to punish the players for playing differently than they would like. They are control freaks. They also like to cater to the minority of elites content creators. Not all are bad but unfortunately they listen to the ones with horrible opinions and views on Destiny. Hope they reverse the nerfs. The 60% reduction on top of the lower ability energy return is so stupid. Just make the cost of the mods higher. Don’t take away the actual functionality of the mods that’s what makes them fun.
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4 RepliesThe changes actually made me enjoy the game more, wasn't and still am not a fan of all these crazy op ability spam bs builds running around, they require no skill And I feel you, I lowman stuff too and day 1 raid and the while package, but to me a more grounded and more challenging base gameplay will always lead to more fun
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1 ReplyI ran a strike with 2 warlocks and I was solar titan with every weapon just burning stuff… basically I ran through the whole strike just engulfed in warlock solar grenades..
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3 RepliesMy issue right now is each class has an extremely op build I can take into everything and not be in any danger. But I don’t enjoy that, but now when I try other builds I can’t use them because I just get annihilated now. Like karnsteins and sunbracers aren’t fun. I’ve run sunbracers on and off since it came out and karnsteins is just lorelai 2.0. Same goes for Titan and hunter. My choices are essentially synthoceps or wormgods with Solar. Gyrfalcon or omnioculus with void. The best exotics right now are incredibly passive which just isn’t fun. Sunbracers is the only non passive one and even then it’s just throw a bunch of grenades while permanently healed. At this point I’ve just been running bad builds for the fun of it. I like my mask of bakris pve build and it may be terrible and I may die more than I like but it beats the same go invisible and then shoot stuff to make it explode and I get to dress up like skeletor. Yeah my hoarfrost Titan may not be able to heal so it’s health is whittled into nothing but I can make like 20 stasis crystals every 20 seconds. And yes having a slightly better arc soul doesn’t stop me from dying but at least I’m not just using a finisher and then becoming invincible.
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I don't know. Seasonal and core activities should be casual, but I have been doing a lot of legendary lost sectors across all three characters lately farming exotics and materials and I still don't feel underpowered even though I'm ten under and use 2nd tier builds on Hunter and Titan.
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Yes, a build now on Destiny is just about equipping an exotic armor and the correct aspects and fragments. Stat optimization/maxing, and equipping mods are largely useless. I am not too affected by the effects of this change, however it shows that Bungie leaves nothing to the player’s satisfaction. Just take away all the armor mods at this point. Since they’re just down to being 5 stat mods, heavy ammo finder and scavenger, and some additional elemental resilience. Just imbed them and lighten the whole code of the game.
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Oh god 99% agree, but starfire not bad in Gm with mods of course… not spam good damage
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2 RepliesFahck I miss Wells. They really were the best. I mean, not only did they refund awesome amounts of energy, they tracked to our position from a good distance away so they didn't ruin the flow of combat. I still think about them all the time...
