TL;DR How is Bungie to satisfy PvE vs PvP? Casual Vs [i]Try Hard Elitist[/i]? Overcome design limitations to please everyone? Can they? What's a reasonable expectation look like? __ __ PvE people want the future environments to be [i]less challenging[/i] than Neomuna. So it will likely be designed to be more forgiving. [b]Hopefully with [i]varying complexity[/i] to [u]keep us engaged[/u] and [u]entertained[/u].[/b] MORE TORMENTORS and SUBJUGATOR STYLE DESIGN. [b]Increased add density[/b] red bars we can mow down effortlessly. With orange bars and champions as hiccups lead by their yellowbar counter parts. [spoiler] Neomuna is "too hard". We can't be too strong if the environments have to be made for people that can't put their resilience over 60. I also thought Neomuna could use some tweaking. I personally think [b]areas and game modes should have varied difficulty[/b]. [i]How they achieve that difficulty[/i] is what's important. [b]Bullet sponges[/b] that [i][b]one shot you[/b][/i] [b]shouldn't be the primary method[/b] of making things more difficult. Ships that kill you as you spawn are unacceptable and shouldn't make it to the final version of the game. Going to more difficult areas or having periods of time in the game where it's more challenging feels like progression. Growth. It offers opportunities for us to be stronger and to have more complex and interesting AI if we don't settle for the bullet sponges. [u]Increased add density was awesome.[/u] The SPECIAL PUBLIC EVENTS WERE GREAT, when the game didn't kick you. [u]I enjoyed the larger lost sectors.[/u] You can get the NEWEST EXOTICS in a patrol public event! [b]They just missed the mark on how tough all of Neomuna could be on entry[/b] for people that didn't respect resilience changes. Some AREAS SHOULD BE HARDER, filled with [i]MORE RISK,[/i] and [b][i][u]provide greater rewards[/u][/i][/b]. And more time spent at higher difficulty should always be better rewarded! Time doesn't need to be the only metric, but the more challenging, the greater the reward. [b]You should still be able to do something challenging very quickly if you're doing it properly.[/b][/spoiler] [b]Player builds are adjusted[/b] IN ANTICIPATION of this new reality based on player response to Lightfall WHILE THEY BUILD NEW CONTENT. For balancing purposes I should imagine. Bungie communicates the changes. PLAYERS FREAK OUT more. PvP people want the game to have some semblance of balance. A rock, paper, scissors where each thing has a set of strengths with inherent weaknesses. But the wildly varying skill range can't immediately be made up with a specific build like PvE without throwing everything into disarray. Not everyone is equally equipped to make design choices or changes and many lack the foresight to see how the game will be affected. Pointing out as much is treated as elitism and conflicting moral philosophies arise. We don't have access to all the data and have to trust the engineers to consider player sentiment while looking at that data. Reconciling with what their vision is and if change is desirable for that goal. TRYING TO PLEASE EVERYONE IS IMPOSSIBLE. Nonetheless they try to have extremely different views occupy the same space without fully obtaining a synergistic state. Though the various teams have done a great job in their efforts to satisfy a people that [i]don't know what they want[/i]. [b]Separating the sandboxes[/b] where necessary is apparently costly and time consuming or we have different ideas of where it's had to happen or is possible. They occasionally attempt to explain without giving you all the information presumably so you have things to enjoy and experience for the first time. PvE takes time to build and neglected PvP keeps people around between content droughts. It's all but butchered with choices suggested by a [i]casual minded player[/i] wanting RNG brought to [b]A[/b]ir [b]E[/b]ffectiveness and [b]stability change to slides.[/b] [b]Skill based match making.[/b] Lag. Quitters. They don't play anymore than they ever did and ensure the people that did play have fewer people to play with in an unstable environment. Remaining PvP players demand changes with this in mind after a massive fall off. A PvP Strike team is made to finally build some maps after it occurs to people PvP players are paying players too, even if you refuse to update the core activities for years. Changes are made for balancing with specific game modes in mind, returning to more gun play. PvE people feel their power fantasy is being ruined because they feel less like god slayers in their environment and threaten that [i]Bungie still aren't listening[/i]. And round the wheel turns with one spoke rising to the top and the others plunged into the mud. They (Bungie) screwed up with over monetization and taking away content and not replacing it in a meaningful way fast enough and having us pay for the same things to return. No update to core activities and expecting us to tolerate burning out on the seasonal activities we buy instead. (Some of which were infact quite cool for a time.) Cause you (The community ) want PvE to always have new content even if drip fed a nothing burger of the same things we have always fought. It is a lack of vision that would both please the casual player without letting them design the game... While also allowing the most dedicated players to not feel their time and effort wasn't being respected as a consumer, whether they make up a majority or minority. But we as a community need to decide the experience we want to be having. Definitively. So we must communicate with each other and them.

Look buddy, quit your job, leave your wife, give her the kids, voila, you can be great at Destiny, what’s the problem? The TWID is proof Bungie in general, devs, management, all of them, are out of touch. Everyone is upset with Destiny, but they won’t mind if we nerf all their favourite builds. What? Nobody over there thought this was a bad idea, at this point in time? Did you fire the people who disapproved this? OP is right about making GMs or a hardcore GM mode with reduced abilities cooldown, just for streamers and elitists.

The goal, less players, less server maintenance, fewer error codes, Bungie calls that a Win!!!

I couldn’t agree more! Yet you got all of these kids in here yelling “git gud scrub” as if many of us here don’t have other things to do other than to try and solo GMs. Like you, I have a full time job, a family, mortgage, and other hobbies. I don’t play this game for the challenge. I play it because it’s fun! But Bungie HATES fun. They want everything to be a pitiful grind so that the streamers, YouTubers, and kids who haven’t touched grass since they picked up a controller can have a “challenge.” It’s truly bananas how out-of-touch these people are.

Because this is what CERTAIN streamers wanted. Plain and simple.It’s who Bungie ACTUALLY caters to. They want to keep their free advertisers happy at the cost of the actual players. Anyone that says or thinks otherwise is lying to themselves. (Just watch at the responses o some of the sheep defending Bungie and the streamers following this post. It’s almost can be classified as Stockholm Syndrome.)