I want to preface this by saying that Void Warlock is very strong, however, that is because void itself is very strong and the exotics warlock has for void are also very strong. If it was possible to play without aspects but have fragments, you would not be able to tell the difference than if you had the aspects on. This is predominantly PvE focused with the occasional PvP mention.
Starting with the aspects.
[b]Child of the Old Gods:[/b]
This aspect is actually in a good spot. Having group weaken, passive damage, and ability regen is really good. Briar Binds make these even better, honestly it probably has better ability regen than Nezarec's Sin. Nothing wrong with this aspect.
[b]Chaos Accelerant:[/b]
Enhanced vortex is great for pve. Enhanced axion is great for pvp. Enhanced magnet/handheld supernova exists. But why does enhanced scatter still exist when Nothing Manacles is in the game? Nothing Manacles gives you two Chaos Accelerant scatter grenades, you don't need to charge it with Nothing Manacles for the better tracking, and Chaos Accelerant and Nothing Manacles don't stack.
So maybe replace scatter grenade on Chaos Accelerant with a different grenade? I think suppressor grenade and consume the grenade for a Weaver's Trance like buff where void kills (maybe only weapon kills) would suppress nearby targets, 3-5 meters. Shouldn't break pvp cause you would have to be near the killed target, and your fault for grouping up like that. I could see some issue in pve, but it is near identical to Weaver's Trance but instead of suspend it is suppression. This will come back when I talk about suppression later.
About handheld supernova, the new void titan aspect in Final Shape is just a better handheld supernova. It blocks incoming damage and it suppresses on attack. Handheld supernova has been neutered since Forsaken and doesn't have any void verb synergy built in outside of Echo of Undermining. Give it some of its range back, it still requires a grenade charge and while Contraverse does mitigate it a bit, the return is random so reliability it kinda hit or miss.
Lastly, remove the requirement to charge the grenade for the enhanced grenade. Every other aspect that augments grenades doesn't require this, so lets remove that relic of the past.
[b]Feed the Void:[/b]
This aspect is literally pointless and it is outclassed by a SINGLE fragment. Echo of Starvation (Eos) gives devour for simply picking up an orb or void breach, and if you have played the game lately, you will know that orbs are not exactly hard to come by. FtV requires an ability kill to give devour, which isn't hard on void with weaken grenades but also allows Child to grant devour. With EoS I can get devour via a weapon kill, an ability kill with the mods on the arms, teammates making any orbs, and that "niche" FtV has with Child is made irrelevant with Echo of Harvest giving me an orb AND a void breach on weakened kills or simply getting a weapon kill after casting Child with the reaper mod. EoS is just a better FtV.
One of three things needs to happen: FtV needs to go and its devour proc becomes intrinsic to void warlock, FtV gets a massive overhaul to make it better than EoS, or nerf EoS. I would have said that the first two could be done with the reintroduction of Dark Matter; however, Child is basically a reimagining of Dark Matter. I will admit that I don't know what you would replace FtV with or add to FtV to make it actually good. Only thing that shouldn't happen is nerf EoS because that doesn't fix the problem that FtV is bad.
[b]Void Buffs:[/b]
There are three void buffs: void overshield, invisibility, and devour. All three classes have easy access to devour because of EoS, but what about the other two?
Titans have easy access to overshields. Titans can get overshields with shield throw/shield bash or with the Bastion aspect; they then benefit from having an overshield with offensive Bulwark.
Hunters have easy access to invisibility. All three aspects make you invisible, and gyrfalcon's is stupid powerful and wants you to be invisible.
Warlocks only have easy access to devour through FtV and EoS (which everyone has).
Titans and warlocks can't build into invis because there are only three ways for them to get invis (Rat King, a hunter with invis, or Echo of Obscurity), and while they don't benefit much from being invis, being basically intangible in pve is never bad.
Hunters and warlocks do want overshields since more effective hp is also never bad, but the only way for them to get an overshield is to use a weapon with repulsor brace, stand next to a bastion barricade, or use Echo of Vigilance.
Something to note is that if a hunter or warlock wants easy access to an overshield, a titan is a fantastic source; if a titan or warlock wants easy access to invis, a hunter is basically your only source. Both of those incentivize group play, warlocks don't have that with something akin to giving devour to their teammates.
All classes do want devour, full health and a large chunk of grenade energy for simply getting a kill is powerful, and all classes can get it very easily.
[b]Void Debuffs:[/b]
There are three void debuffs: weaken, volatile, and suppression.
All classes can get weaken with Echo of Undermining. Titan's only source of weaken is Undermining grenades but titans can spam grenades with Offensive Bulwark and HoIL. Hunters have Stylish Executioner and especially Tether. Warlocks have Child and Felwinter's Helm, but with Chaos Accelerant vortex grenades you can have weaken on a boss for so long when paired with Child.
All classes can get volatile with Echo of Instability. Titans can spread so much volatile with Echo of Instability for their weapons and then paired with Controlled Demolition for their abilities. Hunters and Gyrfalcon's, need I say anything else? Warlocks have pocket singularity, their melee and that's it outside of Echo of Instability.
Suppression is nonexistent and the worst option for stunning overloads because there are so few sources. Suppressor grenades are pretty decent and all classes can use them. Titans have shield bash but lmao shield bash when shield throw exists. Hunters can with Tether but that only counts on the initial grab and constantly stun overloads. Warlocks don't have anything outside of suppressor grenade. There is Wavesplitter with supercharged battery though. Suppression is incredibly strong and I understand the lack of sources because of that strength, but inversely because of the lack of sources, it ends up being weak. By giving warlock's a suppressive trance with Chaos Accelerant, we give more sources of suppression, and warlocks would have the niche with the suppression debuff. (also not biased at all because I would like to be able to actually get suppression on Collective Obligation reliably)
[b]Pocket Singularity/All Void Melees:[/b]
If one thing can be said for all the void subclasses, most of the melees are pretty bad.
Shield throw is so good but you can throw it into a group and sometimes hit all of them and other times hit one and then it goes off into orbit.
Shield bash was already overshadowed by shield throw then the 15% energy for using it as a movement tool just kinda killed it. Either all the shoulder charges need to OHKO in PvP again and take 15% when used for movement, or can't OHKO but doesn't take 15% when used for movement.
Maybe I'm just bad but smoke bomb feels like it doesn't do anything, I don't even see other hunters use it. Hunters should prolly get another melee honestly.
Pocket Singularity is ok at best. The tracking is insane at least. Also why can I hit someone from the front and it will boop them [i]towards[/i] me? The melee should also explode the volatile on its own that it applied.
Now that is a lot of words.
Edit:
I typed 1300 words and didn’t even talk about Nova Bomb and Nova Warp. These got a 20% and 25% buff, respectively, and they are still not great; if that doesn’t show you the state of warlock supers that aren’t Well of Radiance and Needlestorm, I don’t know what will. Cataclysm Nova should prolly get another 20% while Vortex Nova should get another 25% (it requires things to stay in it for gods sake, why does it do less than Cataclysm?) Nova Warp is never going to be good in PvE, so make it better for PvP; I am not going to give any recommendations for PvP balance because of how volatile PvP balance is.
Maybe an idea for both Chaos Accelerant vortex grenade and Vortex Nova Bomb is to give them a passive suck in effect similar to arc scorn chieftain thingies. Both the grenade and Nova Bomb are black holes and having that passive suck-in fits thematically more than just the [i]succ[/i] on initial impact.
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Edited by IAGNRG: 10/7/2023 5:34:38 PMNeeds a new melee option. Shouldn’t have to charge grenades.
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Edited by High Charity: 10/8/2023 11:04:49 PMI'm sorry, you lost me when you tried comparing neutral game abilities to an entire super lmfao
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1 ReplyBro voidlock is the main thing for every solo content, just look at that Esoteric guy If anything, it needs a nerf, but buff the Supers
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As you have noted, there is a great opportunity to incorporate Suppression into the Voidwalker kit if it is to get any buffs. Suppression is woefully underutilised, and it plays into the vampiric "enfeeble your enemies to empower yourself" theme that Devour can come with. I personally don't think there would be much of an issue in having it be more widely available; the closest equivalent is Arc Blind, which is more common and more people recognise its strength. Also, Pocket Singularity is the single worst melee ability in the game. Applying Volatile to a single enemy once in PvE is almost meaningless, and its inexplicably low damage in PvP means you're likely to lose melee fights by having it charged.
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It doesn't, you're build is bad. MW graviton lance goes brrrrr
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I'm still pissed I can't eat my void grenade anymore. To me that was the one big slap in the face to voidwalker. They gave everyone devour and nerf warlocks way to get it. That's one change I'll never get over and always say it needs to be reverted.
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Pocket singularity is absolutely pointless. Also, nova bombs suck. They should make it to where it splits into three projectiles again like in D1
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I absolutely agree bungie has taken a tremendous portion of the original unique warlock kit and has completely failed to be reciprocal in any meaningful way. I admit warlock was in significantly better shape prior to the 3.0 rework but bungie hasn’t even tried to genuinely meet warlock’s in the middle in terms of outsourcing things back to warlocks.
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6 Replies“No only Titans and Hunters are allowed to steal Warlock abilities, not the other way around” -the arsehole in charge of Warlock balancing at Bungie
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All of these seem pretty noticeable if they no longer were on a void subclass. And im 100% sure you can unequip them to find out yourself.
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13 RepliesThe whole warlock fantasy got -blam!- big time and it’s literally the most boring class in the game
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3 RepliesMy brother in light, void warlock needs lance nova bomb+angry magic from d1. Literally super vegetas big bang attack.
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12 RepliesI think k the only reason you still have to charge nova grenades is because of contraverse holds. You get the damage resist and if it didn't have the charge function it would just be free grenade energy on hits, which is exactly why young ahamkara got nerfed.
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1 ReplyI think the biggest issue with voidlock (aside from largely redundant aspects) is how bad the void-based exotics are. Contraverse hold, Nothing manacles, Briarbinds, and skill of dire ahamkara are the only exotics that specifically work with void, and they all stink with the possible exception of Briarbinds. All 4 are completely outclassed by Verity's Brow alone, and other neutral exotics like Nezarec's sin and Chromatic fire are also much more useful than anything void-only exotics bring to the table. The are no exotics that improve the lethality of void abilities or the benefits of devour, both of which should've been obvious effects. Even something super basic like "having devour causes void weapons to apply volatile and/or weakness to targets in addition to it's usual effects" would be great. Maybe something to drastically improve the damage and succing power of vortex grenades and vortex nova bomb too.
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2 RepliesThe best thing bungie can do for warlocks is remove them from the game
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Void can still be really strong with a skilled player. I’ll admit nova needs a big buff. Maybe even rework an exotic to give a flat damage boost to the one that doesn’t track.
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Briarbinds with Child is amazing. I was skeptical until I tried it and yeah it’s brilliant.
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Feed the Void would be good if it also granted a stacking buff to ability damage when getting Void kills while Devour is active (starts at 1x stack when Devour is proc'd via Feed the Void).
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The biggest problem I have with child of the old gods is it's only good in high end content, I take feed the void over it all the time and frees up a fragment that way.
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The biggest problem I have with child of the old gods is it's only good in high end content, I take feed the void over it all the time and frees up a fragment that way.
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eliteg👎👍🙏⚔️😴 - old
This is actually very detailed and helpful. I only use warlock.. but for PVE Void was never as immediately satisfying as arc and solar. -
Feed the Void: Getting a void kill Grant a short period of increased ability energy While you have devourer active, your void weapon weakness target (Passive Negative: Devourer timer is set to 5 sec max).
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Here's your rework fellow guardian. Feed the Void: Ability kills trigger devour, and grant a stacking ability damage boost capping at 75% at 4 stacks. Child of the old gods: Now grants both health and ability energy regardless of rift choice. At 4 stacks of feed the void, suppresses targets. Chaos accelerant: No charging required. hhsn intrinsically weakens targets, in addition to having extra range. Scatter grenades now grant invis for you or allies you throw it at. New class ability: Singularity: Grants void Overshield to those going inside, and inflicts volatile to enemies, detonating them immediately, pushing them back. Replacement melee: SuperYeet98700 (working title): Put some space between you and your enemies. Either yeets an enemies in the direction of the blast, or (if they are a big boss like a GM boss or such), send you towards safety. Exotic changes: Contraverses now don't require charging, and give you 10% dmg reduction while you have devour. Nothing manacles has highly buffed dmg and tracking, but stacks with CA if you want it.
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I agree with this