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9/7/2023 4:54:29 PM
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Looking for your PVP thoughts
Greetings Guardians of Bungie.net. We would like to hear from all you PVP players out there on what kinds of changes to the Crucible you would like to see in the future. We have a short update from the team on our PVP plans going live in the TWID shortly calling for everyone to share their feedback to help us prioritize what changes we work on to continue to improve the Crucible experience. Whether it’s playlist preferences, matchmaking settings, Trials, comp, or anything else that affects the way Guardians battle each other, please post your feedback below.
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Edited by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: 9/11/2023 5:32:09 PMBalanced lobbies, to start. It’s the worst, right now. Put stacks with stacks; solos with solos. Address the lag. It’s also as bad as it gets. All PvP players know that your cross-play is in dire need of tuning. It’s ridiculous.
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TLDR; the trials playlist suffers from an ever-declining player population since there is no reason for low-performing players to continue engaging with the playlist. My solution is to make the requirement for flawless 7 wins with any number of losses. This would bring players into the playlist and it would help retain them, since it would no longer punish players for their losses, while rewarding their time investment by continuing to incentivize wins. It would also eliminate the need for separate matchmaking pools since the requirements for flawless are lower. Hi, long-time destiny pvp player here (since dark below). I have a suggestion for trials. The biggest reason to play trials is the adept loot obtained from flawless. This is only possible if you can reliably string together 7 wins. This is obviously not easy but you all have made some excellent steps forward via passage changes and matchmaking changes. However, these changes fail to fully address what I see as the biggest flaw in trials of Osiris. Every weekend, there is a group of players who lose the vast majority of their games. Sure, these players can earn reputation but reputation doesn’t seem to be enough of an incentive to bring people back to the playlist and keep them there. This is evidenced by how the trials population declines week after week every season. These players maybe play for the first 2 weekends of a season, realize that they have no chance of ever going to the lighthouse, and never return to the playlist. Week after week, we lose the lowest performing group of players from trials, leading to a constantly declining player population. We know that these players can and will return if the incentive is strong enough (i.e. the immortal) however constantly introducing loot that is that powerful would lead to issues of balance and power creep. The question then becomes, how can we motivate players to play trials and how can we keep them playing? My solution is to redefine flawless. If a player gets 7 wins, they get to go to the lighthouse and claim their adept loot no matter how many losses it took to get there. This isn’t the only solution, but whatever the solution may be, it has to reward players for their time investment. My solution has multiple benefits. First, players who currently do not have a reason to seriously pursue lighthouse gear would now have one. Even if they’re only winning 10% of their games, there would now be a light(house) at the end of the tunnel. This would help increase the playlist population as now people don’t get punished for losing, and it would help retain those players since they would have a reason to persevere through their losses. It would also promote higher-skilled players to play more often with lesser-skilled players since the requirements to get flawless would be lower. I don’t need to run stacked with other diamond-elo players if I’m not getting punished for my losses and we just need to get to 7 wins. Secondly, a solution such as this would remove the need for separate matchmaking pools, such as the practice pool, contender pool, freelance node, fireteam based matchmaking, and flawless pool. These things have been helpful in the past, because they were aimed at helping lower-performing groups of players have an easier time in trials. However they came with a huge downside of splitting up the playlist population. Implementing a solution like mine would eliminate the need for such pools because players would not be punished for losing. Previously, if you played solo or duo and you got to your lighthouse game without an intact mercy, you would just pray that you didn’t match a 3 stack because doing so would mean almost certain defeat. And then there goes all the time you spent. You all realized that was a problem and implemented things like the freelance node and fireteam matchmaking to mitigate that sort of thing. If I don’t get punished for a loss though, what does it matter if I’m playing solo and I lose to a team of 3 top-500 players on my lighthouse game? I’ll just queue up another game and move on. This demonstrates why removing the punishment for losses would eliminate the need for various matchmaking pools/systems. Thank you for taking the time to read, and thank you for opening up these channels for feedback. I know you all must be sifting through many angry and mean-spirited comments but hopefully this one finds its way somewhere useful.
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Edited by Vanquish: 9/11/2023 7:55:39 PMQuality of Life Updates: • Each crucible game intro screen should show seasonal K/DA under players. Not sure why this went away • All game modes should display K/DA on scoreboard. Objective-based mode or not, it is still a shooter and players still like to see their performance. • In certain Competitive Game modes and Trials of Osiris game modes, a player’s KD/A is shown on a different part of the scoreboard, to where you have to scroll to the right in order to see it. During game, you have to press R1 to scroll. Post-game, you have to press Right on the D-pad to scroll. Please choose one instead of having two different versions. • During games in the Competitive Playlist, if a teammate leaves, the game states that rank is protected. However, this is not the case in Promotion Games. Currently, if a teammate leaves and it is a Promotion Game, you are not protected, and it will count as a loss. • Crucible Playlist is TOO close to “Store” button. Add spacing. • Destiny has a YT video endorsing the Dual Sense Edge controller, yet don’t acknowledge the paddles when configuring controller options in Destiny’s menu. Allow mapping for the paddles without having to do it through Playstation’s customization. • Reporting people in-between rounds (PVP) – Trying to report someone in-between rounds is not doable. Something in-game removes you or backs you out from the report screen, during each attempt. Once the next round starts, you are then able to report. This puts you at a disadvantage, as you get a late start each round and the enemy has secured positions or gotten kills • Post-game pvp scoreboard show MY title and MY PSN when hovering over other players. For example, if I have a “Flawless” title equipped, every other player will have a “Flawless” title equipped when hovering over their name in the post-game scoreboard. WANTS: -BRING BACK D1 MAPS. ALL OF THEM. -Bring back the flawless armor from D1, even if just the ornaments. Gives something extra for players to chase. -Control, Clash, and Supremacy should be staples of the crucible playlists Thanks! :)
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Edited by Nimune: 9/11/2023 9:55:32 PMFreelance please. Teams "just having fun with friends" pretty much ruin the experience for everyone else in the lobby. Freelance offer better connection quality and easier balancing.
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Edited by XxSkull FistxX: 9/13/2023 3:14:28 AMFix PvP balance. Look at my game history. If I win 2-3 games I get matched with really low skill teammates against high skill opponents for the next 10 games. Ruins my k/d because I'm trying to revive my teammates the entire match. No one should lose 10 games in a row because they won 2-3 games but that's happening for some players to the T. This has been happening for the last 5ish seasons. Lag is terrible, cheating is out of hand.
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(#1) - Freelance all playlists (#2) - Solo adjusted (no LFG or fireteam finder) to obtain all game weapons (meaning raids, dungeons..etc) (#3) - At least a mode (a main gunplay mode) where there are no PVE gimmicks like exotics and abilities that freeze slow or give invincibility to PVP skill (a hit is a hit.. a miss is a miss) are allowed aka PVP for PVP. (totally fine with no classes, abilities.. just equal guardians moving around with their guns and same grenade.. no super.. no point differentiation for armor..no space magic.. at least try it out.) I think this will level the playing field and fix balancing.. and if (#2) a PVP solo main could consider buying the game. Then I guess you could afford maps..etc. (#3) Rankings.. now that would be interesting.. a non build-craft just the weapons/movement skill on display. (#1) its truly frustrating how many people request this and you just don't listen.
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Map weighting--get rid of it. Freelance--bring it back. Incentives--there are none. Connections--they suck. Hit Registration--lol. What even is that? Servers--why do I even bother? Maps--creed is greed, I guess. Cheaters--get rid of em. Cronus/XIM/etc.--the banhammer exists. Community--it's toxic. Gamemodes--where big team battle? Maps 2--why is Exodus Blue? Maps 3--why is Exouds Blue in 6v6? Maps 4--why is Anomaly in 6v6? Gamemodes 2--when tank battle?
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2 RepliesSeriously you all have had sooooooo much feedback from soooooo many players for sooooooo long… what more can any of us say? You will never give D2 dedicated servers so matches will never have a quality connection. You will never be able to balance pvp kill times as it seems impossible to do without ruining pve weapons. Lobby balancing is a joke with your forced win/ loss system. SBMM is whined about by the skilled players who don’t want to play others of their own level… as someone has to lose… CBMM only seems to work in the US as it dumps everyone else on the planet together… The list goes on and you have heard it all before.
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Appreciate you asking us. The first thing you have to ask yourself is.... Will it be fun for Guardians. Will it be fun....... Whether or not its balanced should be irrelevant. Fun...... Also, better map rotation. Seeing the same 3 or 4 maps pop up is old and boring. On the maps side, bringing back Firebase Delphi, Last Exit and the classic Crossroads would keep many of us extremely happy. Thanks for reading.
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[quote]Greetings Guardians of Bungie.net. We would like to hear from all you PVP players out there on what kinds of changes to the Crucible you would like to see in the future. We have a short update from the team on our PVP plans going live in the TWID shortly calling for everyone to share their feedback to help us prioritize what changes we work on to continue to improve the Crucible experience. Whether it’s playlist preferences, matchmaking settings, Trials, comp, or anything else that affects the way Guardians battle each other, please post your feedback below.[/quote] Skill based matchmaking. Disable aim assist. No heavy /limited special. Once player makes it to lighthouse cannot play in general trials playlist -gatekeeping. Bans on cheating players. Dedicated Destiny servers.
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After going and playing PvP in other games this past year to see how other games are, I would like PvP to be rewarding. Not necessarily more loot to drop or more items each season but have a reason to play each match. What I mean is, tie ALOT more into PvP. Let’s not have multiple items to chase that can be achieved in any PvP game mode and have it not tied to reputation reward chance and grinding that way. Like say when you inspect a weapon you have, you see a bunch of cool ornaments you can have for it. Instead of the ornaments costing dust or silver to get, have challenges for them to unlock in PvP (and ones for PvE and Gambit) so that even though I’m losing a bunch and having bad games, I can go to that ornament screen and see I’ve gotten more headshots done or long range kills or zones captured towards them. Makes it feel like at there is at least a reason to continue. Even have some crazy multi step chases to do even. I want to feel like my time isn’t wasted. There are plenty of manufacturers where ornaments can work on multiple guns easy with minimal changes to provide more things to earn. Tie in some shaders, emblems, ships like that too. Things I can earn progress towards, eventually get and have something to show off for my time spent outside of guaranteed loot for flawless, X matches played, rank ups.
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Some kind of cosmetic rewards linked to achieving new ranks within competitive would be interesting. Shaders, emblems, ornaments etc. Maybe this might incentivise some players who do not enter the playlist that often. But mostly it could be a nice potentially achievable reward variant for those of us who spend a lot of our playtime here, aren't necessarily the greatest of players, but really enjoy the competition of PVP in Destiny 2.
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Would be cool if class abilities were disabled in pvp, to improve the quality in gunfights and positioning skill, closer to what it was back in d1. Skill gap in destiny is almost dead at this point
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Edited by Tall: 9/11/2023 6:13:10 PMTrials/Comp should be treated as endgame PVP the same way GMs, Dungeons and Raids are treated in endgame PVE. All of those endgame PVE activities require 3 or 6 players for the best chance of success. Sure they can be queued in and completed solo or duo but that’s the risk that the fireteam takes. FBMM should be removed and just have standalone Trials/Comp playlist with a rotating Freelance mode during some weeks. The current system divides up the available population too much. There also needs to be some sort of lobby balancing across the board because most games whether in public matches or competitive, they seem to end in blowouts.
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7 RepliesEdited by Woooooooo: 9/9/2023 2:50:23 PMSo few thoughts for consideration.......it's a long one so apologies! [u][b]1) Lobby Balancing[/b][/u] [b]Feedback[/b] - IMO this should be a priority focus across all PvP playlists. Poor lobby balancing is likely the root cause of a lot of issues and frustrations that players encounter, but it gets confused with things like SBMM or Fireteam Matchmaking. - The current lobby balancing isn't working as good as it could, especially when queuing solo, resulting in either two outcomes - either high skilled players end up feeling like they are having to carry the rest of the team or there is a complete miss-match in team compositions resulting in one team have little to no chance of competing from the outset. [b]Suggestion[/b] - Essentially improve lobby balancing so that team compositions are fair to all players across all playlists / game modes. [u][b]2) Crucible Playlists[/b][/u] [b]Feedback[/b] - The whole CBMM vs SBMM is a never ending debate that neither side will win, but I think both types of matchmaking have a place in PvP. - Quickplay should be the 'social' playlist, where players can kick back with friends, or jump in solo, and have [u]fun[/u]. It should be the place where people can try out different loadouts, weapons, game modes, whilst still enabling a level of 'farm' protection. If you get lobby balancing right you may have the opportunity to remove SBMM, as you'll still be able to deliver fair matches which was one of your original goals for this playlist. Removing SBMM without addressing lobby balancing would just put us back in the position we were in previously, where the outcome of the match was decided before a shot had even been fired and it didn't promote an increase in the total player base. - Competitive should be the place where players compete, test and hone their skills to gradually increase their Rank. Overall Comp doesn't feel like its in too bad a place at the moment as the majority of games feel fair, challenging but not unachievable if you play well, but I'd welcome a review of the points system and reward system [b]Suggestion[/b] - Simplify things and just have two main playlists - Quickplay (Social / Casual) and Competitive (Ranked). Keep the Rumble playlist (it's the only game mode where its every guardian for themselves) but remove the Rotator and Labs playlists, incorporating these game modes into either Quickplay or Comp (whichever is best suited). - [u]Quickplay[/u] - New game modes (i.e. relic) should be introduced straight into Quickplay. Sure they may not be polished, they may not work as intended, but Quickplay has the highest player count and playtime so its an ideal place to test these things and get useful data, without splitting the player base. - [u]Competitive #1[/u] - Simplify the points system, it's overly complicated (although I understand the original intent). It should be as simple of you win games, you earn points, you lose games, you lose points. You can still adjust the amount of points won or lost depending on what the expected outcome of the match, but this should be calculated at team level not individual player level. Again if you get lobby balancing right for those queueing solo it should be an issue - [u]Competitive #2[/u] - Improve the reward system. Players should have a chance to earn all comp weapons (Rose, Mecurial etc) for completing a game. You can still keep a guaranteed drop of the seasonal comp weapon after the first 3 games, but then it should open up. You'll need to give the loot pool of these weapons relatively small though otherwise it becomes an unnecessary grind....we've already got plenty of that [u][b]3) Trials[/b][/u] [b]Feedback[/b] - I'm not even sure where to start with Trials to be honest. Half of me says its time to just let Trials go, never to return, and focus on creating an awesome Competitive playlist, and the other half of me says its a great concept and with a bit of work it could be great again - When the changes to Trials were first announced I actually thought they sounded great and would actually have a positive impact. In practice though, for me, they missed the mark and they appear to have worsened the experience for a lot of players. - Since the changes were made the population of Trials has significantly reduced. I know the changes wont be the only cause, player burnout / end of season do contribute, but they will have contributed to it - It would be really interesting to see some in depth analysis and data on what effect the changes have had. [b]Suggestion[/b] - I hope Trials can be improved but the realist in me says its time to just let it go, so I'm going with that. Re-invest the time and resources into creating an absolute banger of a Competitive playlist [u][b]4) Radar[/b][/u] [b]Feedback[/b] - The lighting effects on some maps / areas makes it near impossible to see the radar, especially if you use default settings. Players shouldn't be forced to have to change their settings to various colourblind modes, which then impacts other elements of the games (engram / enemy rank colours) just to see the radar [b]Suggestion[/b] - Provide the ability for players to change the opacity of the radar and its colour scheme, independent from all other game settings. [u][b]5) Cheating / 3rd Party Hardware[/b][/u] [b]Feedback[/b] - I play on console so I don't experience the same level of cheating as those that play on PC do, but its clearly an issue where action needs to be taken a lot quicker than it currently is, or at least perceived to be. On console, there are still issues through players using 3rd party hardware. You can normally tell when you've been outplayed by a better player, but there are plenty of suspect players out there. [b]Suggestion[/b] - Follow through on your commitment to address the 3rd party hardware usage within D2 and communicate how many players have been banned for using these devices to show you're actually doing something about it, as at the moment it feels like it was just lip service. [u][b]6) PVP Data Analytics[/b][/u] [b]Feedback[/b] - Please, please, please share PvP data / insights with us more frequently, like you've done in past TWAB's / TWID's, like the ones from Jul-22, Nov-22 and Mar-23. - It's rich data, that I'm sure the PvP strike team will be analysing, but from a player perspective having access to this data is hugely beneficial. It helps us understand what's working vs what isn't and it enables us to continually provide data driven feedback on how things could be improved or change that helps the overall aim of the PvP strike team. [b]Suggestion[/b] [u][/u] - Firstly, actually tell players what their overall skill number is, and our skill numbers based on playlist (Quickplay vs Comp) and game type (trials, control, clash). Either in game or via the app is fine by me. You want players growth players can see and feel, providing this is enables this in a very simple way - Commit to publishing PvP data at the end of each season, or every 3 months, that shows the performance of things like; lobby balancing, expected match outcome, volume of mercy games / trials blowouts, average wait times, average playlist populations, playtime per plater, volume and % of players in the different skill brackets, weapon usage, weapon effectiveness etc, etc...and break this down into the different player skills brackets so we can see what the experience of each player tier is really like. Hope this helps.
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I’d enjoy seeing just a continued focus on dueling over abilities. Abilities can be fun but quickly get out of hand and over take the fantastic dueling this game has
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Footsteps and audio cues. Can we make enemy player footsteps and slides louder? It bothers me how deaf my Guardian feels. In other games, I can identify my opponents characters and where they're going just by their footsteps. In Destiny 2, I can't hear a Titan in full plate armor sprinting up to shotgun me unless they have a Shoulder Charge equipped. I feel its so quiet to force radar necessity.
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Bring back freelance trials. Fire team based matchmaking is horrible. The old prerequisites for matchmaking gave you an adamantly better time. With this current set up, people who are in their first game all too often get paid with people on their lighthouse game. That never happened before the change and not just that. Idk if there was ever sbmm involved in trials previously with the former card based mm but I believe that should be the format to be returned to. Primarily card based with some skill based. With the current formula it's almost as if you're pushed to run solo anyway because 3 stacking is absolutely god awful. So if that's the case. Freelance at least gives everyone an equal opportunity to go flawless as it did before.
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I really miss the emersion that I felt with the original version of the Competitive playlist, that is to say. No radar, and 4v4, I know a lot of other variables have changed since then. There was a level of good pacing for the rounds. I remember cranking up my headphones in the connector on Eternity so I could hear the opposing teams' footsteps on gold bridge so I could time a perfect Fighting Lion shot as soon as they came around the corner. All that I do now when I'm in pvp is just mindlessly stare at the radar for the whole game. But if it's true that a majority of the maps were created with 4v4 in mind, why shy so far away from that? I can't be the only one who looks at the current state of 6v6 and thinks that this level of constant chaos is enjoyable from start to finish. The effects, the explosions, the homing projectiles, with 12 people on a map, too much. I don't mind if it's a brand-new game mode, a casual playlist option, or even a week of crucible labs. I just want to play a 4v4 game of crucible with no radar again. <3
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2 RepliesCross play on console is terrible, please fix. Third party devices on console that enable mouse and keyboard need banning. Comp needs a proper ranking system where you only play people in your rank and also decent reward to chase ie recluse, lunas howl etc. Incentives people to play crucible with decent drop rates of rewards, better rewards for wins but reward people's time and effort. Maybe feature a pvp tips and tricks in twab from a top player. Could feature load outs and why the do or run certain things. More maps, bring back all maps and new to mix. D1 maps would also be welcome
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1 Reply[quote]Greetings Guardians of Bungie.net. We would like to hear from all you PVP players out there on what kinds of changes to the Crucible you would like to see in the future. We have a short update from the team on our PVP plans going live in the TWID shortly calling for everyone to share their feedback to help us prioritize what changes we work on to continue to improve the Crucible experience. Whether it’s playlist preferences, matchmaking settings, Trials, comp, or anything else that affects the way Guardians battle each other, please post your feedback below.[/quote] As a guardian who actually plays pvp most of the time. Keep SBMM it's not that bad like people think. Yes you sometimes have a lag player but not all the time. The waiting period for a game isn't that long either. The lobbies are not super stacked like CBMM that was unplayable, a 5kd should never even match a 1 kd. Plus there was more sweaty player in CBMM. Yes I love getting blueberry's that are low kd then me but it really doesn't bother me that much I can still kind of help out. The only real thing Bungie needs is a anti cheat that can actually detect cheater and cheaters using mod attachments on console and pc, I'm not going to use the name of said mod devices. Add back the maps you took out for no reason, there not new there already in the game. Weapon and ability fixes up to Bungie. Exotics should feel exotic, but also should not be broken I can think of a few lol. Stop players from matching console if there using keyboard and mouse on console to prevent a disadvantage and yes it is a advantage over console players. New weapons vendor reset. New bounty system to aquire bounties for weapons of that archetype like for example hand cannon bounty rewards a hand cannon, get 20 eliminations with hand cannons to complete. Armor doesn't have to look super stylish but if you reset a certain number of times maybe just maybe a glow. Anything else other players have good ideas too so look at there post to Cosmo thanks for reading and eyes up guardian.
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1 ReplyAim asst should be consistent and bullets should ALWAYS, ALWAYS register on hit. It’s impossible to test weapons and improve skill without consistency.
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10 RepliesTake crossplay out of crucible.
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1 Reply[quote]Greetings Guardians of Bungie.net. We would like to hear from all you PVP players out there on what kinds of changes to the Crucible you would like to see in the future. We have a short update from the team on our PVP plans going live in the TWID shortly calling for everyone to share their feedback to help us prioritize what changes we work on to continue to improve the Crucible experience. Whether it’s playlist preferences, matchmaking settings, Trials, comp, or anything else that affects the way Guardians battle each other, please post your feedback below.[/quote] Provide an option for CBMM or SBMM simultaneously for Quickplay.
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3 RepliesIs Quickplay meant to be a place for skilled players to beat down unskilled/less skilled players, or is it meant to be a low-pressure activity where you don't get swatted over and over? I'm sick of hearing streamers and the like crying about having to play people at their own skill level. You don't want Crucible to be hard? Guess what? Neither does anyone else. Do what you will, but if the environment is unfriendly to new players, you will not attract new players.
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Matchmaking wouldn’t take so long if you brought back 4v4 in the Crucible, which was the original format for D2, as well as change Comp to 2v2. Keep trials at 3v3. This would make matchmaking’s time much quicker. Plus Crimson Days was one of the best Crucible game modes. The Comp scoring needs fixed ASAP!!! Don’t wait until the next season or DLC, it is so frustrating only getting 30-80 points for a win, and losing 150-210 points for a loss!!! These changes might actually get more people to play Competitive so I’m not waiting 3-4 minutes just to get a match started.
