Here's an example of what all the uber toxic KWTD groups are trying to avoid: 1) Group forms, featuring Pro 1, Pro 2, Pro 3, Pro 4, Noob 1, and Noob 2. The Pros have already been wiping on Crota for 6 hours straight at this point and have seen multiple last stands. The Noobs are solid players who just now got to Crota after walling at Deathsinger for the past 6 hours and switched groups after their other groups disbanded. 2) Pro 1 is a good leader and explains the Crota encounter to Noobs 1 and 2. They both understand and adjust their loadouts according to what they're supposed to do. 3) Two wipes happen pre-damage phase, Pro 4 drops group. 4) Five minutes are spent refilling. The group gets Noob 3. Pro 1 spends five minutes explaining the plan to Noob 3, who also picks it up instantly. 5) Three more wipes happen, Pro 3 has to leave due to IRL complications. (Or so he says.) 6) Pro 3 is replaced with Noob 4, who actually is a noob and keeps dying multiple times before even one sword is acquired, even after multiple explanations and strat adjustments are provided. Noob 4 gets kicked, Pro 2 decides to dip out as well. 7) Noob 4 and Pro 2 get replaced with Noobs 5 and 6. Pro 1 explains the strat again, only for Noob 1 to get mom aggro halfway through and have to leave. Noob 1 gets replaced with Noob 7, another explanation goes through, and then Noobs 2 and 3 both leave after another two wipes. 8) If you're Pro 1, you have now taken almost an entire 1 of your 48 contest mode hours to refill and explain the boss fight to more players than can fit in a standard raid fireteam, need to give another explanation to Noobs 8 and 9 when they join, [i]and are no closer to actually clearing the encounter than you were when you started[/i]. Nobody wants to be Pro 1 in that situation. At the same time, entirely too many people are playing Fireteam Roulette instead of buckling down with a group of 6 decent players and bothering to actually prog stuff properly, and that doesn't do anyone any good. And that's where the "KWTD or kick" "kicked if bad" stuff comes from. Nobody wants to deal with all that when they've already spent 6 hours on the fight. They just want their clear.

Contest mode isn’t for teaching people how to do the raid. It’s for the most hardcore players. Besides it only for an emblem and the exotic that’s a quest reward anyway

Context: I enjoy teaching people raids. I probably helped teach more than 50 clears of Crota in D1 (not sure how many - I had 130+ clears because I kept doing teaching runs). That said, it is not “5 minutes.” If players don’t have good gear it can be a LOT longer than that - to the point that I don’t teach raids often anymore because life has just gotten too busy as I’ve gotten older. Also, many of those asking for experience during or right after contest mode have just put in as many as 12-48 hours into the raid. They are likely tired and just want to finish it and go to bed, so they are hoping to get others to join who also already spent time learning it. Last thought: You are NOT entitled to take someone else’s time. They owe you nothing except the basic respect and human dignity owed everyone. Maybe try to be appreciative of those who do have the time and skill to teach rather than just being a toxic player like you are with this post?

Obviously a fair point. Most people like to pretend there is a great community here when infact alot of people (also just in life generally) only care about themselves and what they get out of something. This is simply a call for people to be better, to truly embody the hero persona of a guardian and make an effort to help there brothers in arms out. A bunch of people will take this negatively, say things such as "skill issue" or some other petty B.S. but pay them no mind for those are the very toxic d-bags that have singled themselves out. There is some friendly people out there but cherish them and send a friend request because they can be few and far between sometimes. Best of luck finding a considerate fireteam guardian.

The issue is more complex.... Within said group of players there are two sub categories... People who want to learn/ and able to learn And People who want carried Sadly LFG is full of the latter. And in end game content like contest mode there's no room for carrying. So imo people are within their right to specify experience in their posts. Time is precious My advice to people with no raid experience. Create your own fresh group and specify your looking for other people with little to no to experience and then go through a few hours of pain learning and beating each encounter until you get through the raid get a clear and earn your experience

My big question is, especially for Xbox players... why don't they just make their own LFG? Put up a post saying that you're trying to learn and any help would be appreciated... why should what one person wants override what the other 5 grouped up for initially? That's not to say that those 5 are reasonable, expecting a KWTD immediately after release is a bit much and 1810 with a light cap does seem a tad silly. But that brings me to my next point... why must you be taught during contest mode? It may not be day 1 anymore, but contest mode is still for all the elites, elitist, and toxic players to flock to. Why specifically do you need to be taught during contest mode when I'd reckon the majority of people who are playing during that time want to be as productive as possible. Why can't you wait to ask to be taught until after contest mode is over?

Mfs are foaming at the mouth and pulling their hair out over others LFG posts instead of just making their own. Shut up, what is bungie gonna do?, hold people hostage until the posts say “all welcome, will teach”?

The best are the ones that say must kwtd and have emblem. Like idk where 99% of my emblems came from so chances are no one cares about your emblem you have equipped is. Odd thing to get sweaty for but that's just my opinion.

I so agree. I was super excited to try and get a day 1 clear, couldn’t due to either being kicked or people leaving. Not everyone has the time to grind god rolls!

Not my job to teach other people game mechanics dude.

At this point, I think it's a running joke by the community. Say that cause as soon as a raid opens, you see posts saying kwtd lol. Anyway, I use lfg a lot. It's not as bad as people try to make it seem. In fact, it's a great tool to do things in game that require others. Don't let the few overshadow the many. As for contest mode, that's the wrong time to look to be taught. Most are just trying to complete it to get whatever drop. Also, most of them don't know what to do lol. All they did was watch a vid or stream, but haven't actually been in there. Yes, there is a difference.

If only you could make your own group...