[b]tl;dr: The Wanderer would be a serviceable Aspect if I could consistently get to the Tangles for it, but my Tangles keep getting blown up or stolen by "teammates." It's also suicidal to grab a Tangle in the middle of a bunch of enemies on squishy Broodweaver, and it's hard to deliberately make a Tangle in an easy place to grab because of Unravel. [/b]
The Wanderer is a 2-slot Aspect for Broodweaver that makes Tangles a Broodweaver grabs fly, home in on enemies, and cause a Suspending explosion in exchange for a reduction in damage on the Tangle itself. You could basically treat it as a free Suspend every fifteen seconds, no grenades or abilities necessary besides whatever you used to make the Tangle, not to mention that these guys are super fun to grapple onto, [u]but that means actually grabbing the Tangle. [/u]
In practice, you might be able to walk up and grab the Tangle, but you also might lose it to a random explosion or a greedy teammate. No joke, I made a Threadling with a Hatchling gun and the Threadling blew up itself AND my Tangle. That's ridiculous, to say nothing of how many times a random non-Berserker walked up and took the Tangle from me. Also, since Broodweaver doesn't have access to a lot of defense buffs like Overshield or Damage Resistance (see below), trying to get to the Tangle, where an enemy once stood and their friends still are standing, may get you killed pretty quickly. Lastly, the other Strand classes aren't as associated with the contagious Unravel verb. If say, a Berserker wants to make a Tangle, they can just Sever something with Frenzied Blade, kill it and make a Tangle, instead of having to deal with an entire group of enemies that were accidentally Unraveled and will make a Tangle in the deadly enemy pile if one's killed.
In light of these concerns, while I'm not gonna claim I know the first thing about gamedev, I would suggest three changes.
[spoiler]1) Tangles need to be tamperproofed against explosions and unhelpful fireteam members. Consider making it so that Tangles can only be destroyed by direct gunfire by the person that made it for the first ten or so seconds of its existence. No cursed thrall explosions, no grabby blueberries. Maybe let us pass it like the balls in Corrupted if we want to give it to a Berserker.
2) Something needs to be done to make Tangles easier to grab, either at range or by making getting/Grappling to the Tangle less risky. Personally, I feel like some damage resistance is necessary to make use of the Grapple less insane to use in higher end content anyways. It seems like classes that have to do risky things get some kind of tool to make it safer. Arc classes using Speed Booster get some damage resistance + Spark of Resistance, for instance. There's others, like Phoenix Dive making Dawnblade inherently dangerous aerial gameplay safer, but I digress.
3) I just don't feel like the damage decrease is warranted, and for the effort involved the explosion seems too small, somewhat. I'm not sure if it's spawning my Swarmers Threadlings all the time either, and some enemies just teleport after the Tangle's latched on and dodge the Suspend entirely.[/spoiler]
Not really sure what else to say. I think the Wanderer is functionally adequate. I mean it's okay, 6 or 7/10. But, a lot of parts of Strand that need to work to make the Wanderer work don't really do their job, for the reasons stated above. It's fun and I'll continue to use it in dungeons and less-hard Nightfalls, but it's not something I'd expect to find valuable in actually difficult content.
Below: With regards to DR and Broodweaver, I have some whacked-out set up with x2 Powerful Attraction, and Reaper on my class item + Thread of Warding and Thread of Mind to let me grab nearby orbs quickly to get Woven Mail on demand. It works, but I'm also using half my Fragment slots and at least one armor slot on everything but my chest for mediocre uptime on the buff. It feels like I had to do way too much and I'd just about kill for a Woven Mail exotic armor piece.
EDIT: Oh, yeah there's also a bunch of other things you could do to make grabbing the Tangle easier, but some of these are really redundant, like using a Blinding Grenade Launcher/Weaver's Trance. (So, to grab the Tangle to CC the enemy, you CC'd the enemy?) Or sort of ridiculous, like insisting you bring a Glaive to everything for the shield.
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2 Replies+10 points for paragraphs and a well structured composition. It’s considerate too. Thank you.
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maybe spawn 3 tangles on rift cast? like diamond lance
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4 RepliesEdited by DuBChiri2: 5/31/2023 4:17:54 PMThey should allow it to be shot to work. I believe the strand fragment for melee energy does this so I don't really see why this aspect can't.
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[quote][b]tl;dr: The Wanderer would be a serviceable Aspect if I could consistently get to the Tangles for it, but my Tangles keep getting blown up or stolen by "teammates." It's also suicidal to grab a Tangle in the middle of a bunch of enemies on squishy Broodweaver, and it's hard to deliberately make a Tangle in an easy place to grab because of Unravel. [/b] The Wanderer is a 2-slot Aspect for Broodweaver that makes Tangles a Broodweaver grabs fly, home in on enemies, and cause a Suspending explosion in exchange for a reduction in damage on the Tangle itself. You could basically treat it as a free Suspend every fifteen seconds, no grenades or abilities necessary besides whatever you used to make the Tangle, not to mention that these guys are super fun to grapple onto, [u]but that means actually grabbing the Tangle. [/u] In practice, you might be able to walk up and grab the Tangle, but you also might lose it to a random explosion or a greedy teammate. No joke, I made a Threadling with a Hatchling gun and the Threadling blew up itself AND my Tangle. That's ridiculous, to say nothing of how many times a random non-Berserker walked up and took the Tangle from me. Also, since Broodweaver doesn't have access to a lot of defense buffs like Overshield or Damage Resistance (see below), trying to get to the Tangle, where an enemy once stood and their friends still are standing, may get you killed pretty quickly. Lastly, the other Strand classes aren't as associated with the contagious Unravel verb. If say, a Berserker wants to make a Tangle, they can just Sever something with Frenzied Blade, kill it and make a Tangle, instead of having to deal with an entire group of enemies that were accidentally Unraveled and will make a Tangle in the deadly enemy pile if one's killed. In light of these concerns, while I'm not gonna claim I know the first thing about gamedev, I would suggest three changes. [spoiler]1) Tangles need to be tamperproofed against explosions and unhelpful fireteam members. Consider making it so that Tangles can only be destroyed by direct gunfire by the person that made it for the first ten or so seconds of its existence. No cursed thrall explosions, no grabby blueberries. Maybe let us pass it like the balls in Corrupted if we want to give it to a Berserker. 2) Something needs to be done to make Tangles easier to grab, either at range or by making getting/Grappling to the Tangle less risky. Personally, I feel like some damage resistance is necessary to make use of the Grapple less insane to use in higher end content anyways. It seems like classes that have to do risky things get some kind of tool to make it safer. Arc classes using Speed Booster get some damage resistance + Spark of Resistance, for instance. There's others, like Phoenix Dive making Dawnblade inherently dangerous aerial gameplay safer, but I digress. 3) I just don't feel like the damage decrease is warranted, and for the effort involved the explosion seems too small, somewhat. I'm not sure if it's spawning my Swarmers Threadlings all the time either, and some enemies just teleport after the Tangle's latched on and dodge the Suspend entirely.[/spoiler] Not really sure what else to say. I think the Wanderer is functionally adequate. I mean it's okay, 6 or 7/10. But, a lot of parts of Strand that need to work to make the Wanderer work don't really do their job, for the reasons stated above. It's fun and I'll continue to use it in dungeons and less-hard Nightfalls, but it's not something I'd expect to find valuable in actually difficult content. Below: With regards to DR and Broodweaver, I have some whacked-out set up with x2 Powerful Attraction, and Reaper on my class item + Thread of Warding and Thread of Mind to let me grab nearby orbs quickly to get Woven Mail on demand. It works, but I'm also using half my Fragment slots and at least one armor slot on everything but my chest for mediocre uptime on the buff. It feels like I had to do way too much and I'd just about kill for a Woven Mail exotic armor piece. EDIT: Oh, yeah there's also a bunch of other things you could do to make grabbing the Tangle easier, but some of these are really redundant, like using a Blinding Grenade Launcher/Weaver's Trance. (So, to grab the Tangle to CC the enemy, you CC'd the enemy?) Or sort of ridiculous, like insisting you bring a Glaive to everything for the shield.[/quote] They could be like orbs,everybody gets their own
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Wanderer needs a secondary effect, like how the titan aspect increases melee regen when you have Woven Mail. Maybe increased grenade recharge when you have a target suspended?
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2 Replies-blam!- hell. A 3000 word essay to say make tangles easier to grab. Learn brevity my friend.
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1 ReplyLike you said, it's a ridiculous pain in the butt to grab tangles in any non solo content. But also, in solo content/grabbing a tangle in the middle of enemies, it isn't worthwhile enough to do so. I understand the risk/reward element at play here, and it's wayyyy out of wack. Why am I going to dive in a group of enemies to grab a tangle for the suspend effect, when I could throw a suspending grenade from a distance that will suspend more enemies (or consume my grenade and suspend people for half a minute), doing more with no risk at all, with a reasonable cooldown on that as well? [b]The solutions I personally would throw onto the table:[/b] 1. Keep the explosion size the same heck, even lower it if you must, but give Tangles created with the Aspect the ability to track enemies without being touched (like a mine). This will help fix the issue with people stealing tangles, and remove the really bad risk/no real reward angle. [u]This is my favorite, the neutral game is solid on broodweaver and this would lean further into it, borderline help define the subclass further into defensive support.[/u] 2. If you insist on not changing how the aspect works, change how tangles work. If someone shoots, picks up and throws a tangle? Let the tangle inherit the ability that the creator of the tangle has. Hunter wants to throw MY tangle? Fine, but make it do what I created it for in the first place. Make it suspend/track. [u]I see this as a compromise if feasible, it would also fix the issue with people stealing tangles off of swarmers users. This way if someone grabs your tangle it doesnt immediately become a worse version of what its supposed to do.[/u] 3. If neither of the two are done, at bare minimum increase the suspending radius. It's absolutely pathetic for the risk involved in any content that you would need a suspend ability in. [u]My least favorite option but the most likely unfortunately. Again, if either or the other two ideas were implemented there would be no need to increase the suspending radius imo.[/u] In my opinion, it's a 2/10 aspect. I truly do not enjoy using weavers call as I find it kind of boring (IN MY OPINION), but the Wanderer is so bad I don't see myself really using it, ever.
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They should have made it tangles you create shoot unravelling rounds out til the expire or are grabbed/destroyed. And no I'm not a warlock main.
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They keep getting “stolen” because they [i]are[/i] that easy to grab. Constantly picking them up when reloading or trying to grab other things.
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7 RepliesThe other day, I picked up a tangle instead of a bomb in DSC that someone in my fireteam dropped because of radiation, causing a wipe. I bring this up because the dichotomy is funny to me. They're too hard for you to pick up, but for many of us, it's way too easy
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4 RepliesRemember warnind cells, these are warnind cells all over again.
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Can we also address tangles apparently spawning UNDER THE FLOOR in some situations? In my PvE Strand build I should gen tangles very predictably. Tonight I was helping someone in legendary campaign and kept losing my tangles on Calus. The only thing I could imagine was they were spawning UNDER ME. I was the only one down on the part with Calus, and the others weren’t shooting them, but they were just NOOOOTTT TYHHHEEERRRREE.
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2 RepliesI have a really good solution that bungie should have included in their development if this aspect and they could still change it. The whole identity of the brood weaver warlock subclass is to make a mini threading army for yourself. Right. This change would play into that. The wanderer: whenever you create a tangle it instead turns into a more powerful super threadling. This super threadling more aggressively tracks targets, and does increased damage, additionally when this threadling detonates it releases a suspending burst. Tangle cool-down is reduced (to like 2-5 seconds instead of 15), and if a super threadling returns to you you are granted woven mail and 3 threadlings. Also and a last thing to tie it into the other strand aspects, whenever you have a full stack of perched threadlings you are granted woven mail (or something along those lines so that whenever you have tangles on you you get woven mail. This would make the broodweaver subclass actually feel unique (via the super threadlings), given that threadlings are meant to be unique to warlocks (even though every other class can get them).
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I just cannot believe they though this was worth a whole aspect. It’s boring. I don’t care about it at all.
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2 RepliesEdited by Verke0: 5/30/2023 6:26:17 PMThere are some good ideas in this thread to make it practical. I want to throw my hat in as well. Also creating a tangle creates a suspend burst around it. Or tangles you create periodically release threadlings.
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I think that they should really only be made available to the player that created the tangle. If my build is focused on tangle creation, why is an arc Titan/hunter/warlock or any other non-strand class even interested in grabbing it? The same way you can’t pick up your own orbs after kills with a super, other players shouldn’t be able to interact with tangles that they didn’t generate.
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What they should do. Same as the titan cadmus ridge lancecap. Equipping the wanderer makes strand tangles spawn next to the warlock on a strand weapon kill.
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1 ReplyWhy don’t you just grapple to the tangle?
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Might be better if the aspect simply created the suspending burst wether is is thrown OR destroyed by the warlock.