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Edited by SonicFusion:
5/28/2023 2:13:19 PM
68
Scaling Dungeons to the Solo Player
Let me begin by saying I LOVE dungeons. They are my favorite content in the game. I have completed all of them solo/flawlessly and love the challenges they present. With that said, their scaling beeds some attention when it comes to solo attempts. Even some of those most elite players out there (Namely Esoterickk) have to take upwards of 5 or 6 phases to kill the final Ghosts of the Deep boss with an optimized build. Another major culperit is the Akelous fight in the Spire of The Warcher dungeon. This draws out the fight to last more than half abd houe for most and even an hour for some! In my experience it turns the solo flawless run into more of a chore than an exciting new challenge. I would love to see all fights down to a comfortable four-phase for the average player. That leaves plenty of room for optimization for the best-of-the-best and encourages lower skilled players to refine their builds and improve their gameplay rather than making the fights a boring and repetative battle of endurance for everyone.
Please see the attatched video from Gladd as he describes these issues in a much for consise manner.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been updated with tags that are more appropriate. Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic, for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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Edited by FataLVisioN_Oo: 5/29/2023 5:01:29 PMI enjoy soloing dungeons, I don't enjoy doing 8-10 damage phases 🤣 The difficulty of the encounters doesn't bother me, but sitting at a boss fight for an hour plus chipping away it's health is boring.
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1 ReplyThey do need to drop the health on both bosses a bit, but that's really it. Love the enemy density in these fights, even non-solo.
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6 RepliesI'm not even going to talk about the 6-hour boss fight against the Adamantoise in Final Fantasy XV. Did I mention that about 45 minutes into the first fight, it stomped me outside of its agro range and reset its health? Oh that's right, I'm not going to talk about it.
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"But Eso beat the whole thing in an hour." - Bungie, whenever they feel they need to justify making content that should be soloable too hard.
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3 RepliesSoloing dungeons used to be my favourite part of D2, before Duality they used to be a lot of fun. Now they’re a tedious slog. Making the bosses bullets sponges doesn’t make it more challenging it makes it boring.
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Edited by Corrick II: 5/31/2023 3:38:08 AM[quote]... rather than making the fights a boring and repetative battle of endurance for everyone. [/quote] I mean... that's pretty much Bungie's design philosophy at this point, so good luck.
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2 RepliesEdited by NeoReaper82: 5/30/2023 9:48:53 AMI just love that the people who screamed make your game harder are now screaming make your game easier.
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I like the idea of scaling Dungeons to solo players as long as they also scale to a fireteam. When playing a Dungeon with a 3-player fireteam the activity is a joke that just gets ran through like a strike. If Dungeons are supposed to be end-game content, they should be more difficult than a strike.
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Yeah, final Spire boss took me like 8 phases with Witherhoard (weakened clear mod), trace rifle, and auto-loading rocket on solar Titan. Was annoying. I've also soloed all the dungeons, but I may not bother with this one.
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8 RepliesIMO scaling is bad. The whole point of the solo flawless is to do something designed for a full fireteam by yourself. In the past with scaling exotic missions, I found myself just wanting to run them solo because a full fireteam made it drag out too much.
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1 ReplyThe only thing stopping me from soloing dungeons is knowing that it's gonna take over an hour on a single boss and that's without dying. They just have too much health
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1 Reply[quote]Let me begin by saying I LOVE dungeons. They are my favorite content in the game. I have completed all of them solo/flawlessly and love the challenges they present. With that said, their scaling beeds some attention when it comes to solo attempts. Even some of those most elite players out there (Namely Esoterickk) have to take upwards of 5 or 6 phases to kill the final Ghosts of the Deep boss with an optimized build. Another major culperit is the Akelous fight in the Spire of The Warcher dungeon. This draws out the fight to last more than half abd houe for most and even an hour for some! In my experience it turns the solo flawless run into more of a chore than an exciting new challenge. I would love to see all fights down to a comfortable four-phase for the average player. That leaves plenty of room for optimization for the best-of-the-best and encourages lower skilled players to refine their builds and improve their gameplay rather than making the fights a boring and repetative battle of endurance for everyone. Please see the attatched video from Gladd as he describes these issues in a much for consise manner. [spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been updated with tags that are more appropriate. Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic, for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler][/quote] I think they should make it x4 more punishment for solo players so it really means something to get it done.
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1 ReplyBungie should send a survey to the people who have solo and solo flawless dungeon clears and see how the people who normally run these types of content feel without every tom, rich, and harry that struggle with a full fireteam chiming in.
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Foreal, boss scaler. I’ve done solo/solo flaw on every dungeon, prophesy/pit 4 cycles by yourself. Spire/Ghost taking 7/8 gets old. I’m slightly (and I mean slightly) above average and you have to prioritize staying alive over the meta damage sometimes. If you can do 4 cycles you proven you can handle it. 50/60% of boss health imo or less shiiii
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Edited by Witherhoard Guy: 5/30/2023 3:44:47 PMWhat's crazy about this dungeon is master actually feels the same as normal. I was expecting master to be absolutely bonkers and there really wasn't a difference in damage I take, only difference from normal was champions.
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Get good and do more dmg?
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3 RepliesEdited by waterpolo1: 5/29/2023 1:28:01 AMThe idea of the video is wrong right off the bat. Dungeon are not build around solo runs. A solo triumph is only a challenge, not the intended way to play it. Same way that the flawless raids are not the intended way to play the raid. Then he goes about not needing cracked builds. What is he talking about? Have ya'll tried joining a master run with a less then optimal gear or even a wrong class? That's how you get kicked. People expect you to use the best of the best to get the challenge runs done. Same goes for the solo and solo flawless runs. A solid amount of low man and solo clears are all build around cracked builds. This is a looter and the loot you use matters.
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Watched Gladd's video. Thx for highlighting. I think he said everything what needs to be said. With a nicer vocabulary than I am allowed to use here.
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3 RepliesThey should honestly just remove the shield.
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It would be more bearable if the just had you do a 3rd of the damage solo, two 3rds duo and full with 3. More appropriate scaling as most teams do a third damage anyway when looking at final dps numbers. Means the damage phases are still roughly 2 - 3. By this point you’ve mastered the mechanics to successfully do 3 damage phases.
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needs a solo matchmaking option, limit 1 player and boss health bars are tuned for solo playes, which is like 50%-60% health nerf
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25 Replies[quote]”comfortable four phase for the average player”[/quote] So you want handouts? Dungeons are supposed to be a challenge. If an average player can comfortably solo a boss in a dungeon the it’s to easy. Also, they are 3 player activities with the ability to solo. So scaling is a non issue. [spoiler]nibbles crayon[/spoiler]
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Mindboggling how Bungie uses boss HP to drag out playtime and shifts the difficulty from requiring a solo player to master mechanics to not screwing up anywhere between 8-10 artificially extended damage phases. Difficulty should be mechanical, not making every boss a bullet sponge. Once a player masters being able to solo complete a dungeon's mechanics, the reward shouldn't be to spend 45-60 minutes then doing the same thing over and over and over and over again for a stupid emblem. I say this having solo flawlessed every dungeon up until this one was released, and by far SotW was the worst culprit for bullet sponge bosses until now.
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Edited by Clotsby: 5/29/2023 8:28:16 PMIt's why i stopped doing solo. I did all of them solo up to grasp after that it just got boring having to do like 8 damage phases. It's no longer a fun experience but a chore, and now they even added a shield to them and waste a butload of dps on or use a specific weapon (arbi) to get rid of it
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9 RepliesIt’s really not an issue considering all you get is an emblem. I think the game needs content like this so that people who live and breathe nothing but destiny, have some feel of importance. After all, they do spend the most time in the game.
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7 Replies"I enjoy spending 30 minutes on a boss encounter!" - a lot of weirdos in the comments
