Because she exposes how poorly the rest of the story and characters are written.
I think her character is awesome. I think the way she was developed over time, and has remained as consistent as seems possible in Destiny, is awesome. So I believe she is the shining example of why pretty much ALL of the other characters, well, suck. Ok, maybe Devrim and Drifter are good as well.
But the rest?
The Vanguard "leadership" is way too passive. The side characters that we are supposed to care about are far too concerned with personal drama to be useful.
Bungie... Ana is a terrible character. She has never had an interesting or compelling story. Let it go. It isn't going to happen. Her sister is where you need to put the focus.
Saint and Osiris's relationship is not compelling. Not because they are in a relationship. But rather because THEY NEVER DO ANYTHING TOGETHER. Two of the most experienced and powerful allies that pretty much never do anything of note as a TEAM. You know, that whole Fireteam thing you abandoned after Cayde. The whole Fireteam thing that bonded groups of characters, that basically made up some of the best motivations in the story.
Cayde, Zavala and Ikora. Used to be a team, now either dead or, might as well be dead.
Eris's Team. A central point and cautionary tail for how to face the mortality of being "immortal",
Saladin's Iron Lords. An epic story, which see's us join him in the end and earn respect, while respecting the mistakes of the past.
And ultimately the Alliance. Our uniting with our allies. OUR overall fireteam. House of Light, Caital, even the Awoken to some extent.
THAT is the story you need to keep telling.
You introduce new characters on Neomuna. They essentially conceded control of their defensive operations to outsiders, with Osiris being an -blam!- the whole time. Make one of them completely out of place in terms of tone and presentation, make the other so minor in terms of our interactions that their, um, "arc" has a "well that just happened" vibe for everyone including their partner.
Huh? But Caital?
She understands what is at stake. She knows our enemies. She has sacrificed and taken SPECIFIC actions to aide us. She is a leader. She respects our power and OUR contribution. Like actually acknowledges it.
All the while, everyone else acts as if it's just another day in the tower.
C'mon man. Stop telling us who we should care about and why. More developing of characters that WE care about because of what they do.
EDIT: I wrote this before doing the next to last mission where Caitl fights with your guardian. Now I think she is even cooler. That was bad -blam!-.
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#destiny2
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1 ReplyAnd Savathun best hive villain ever
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Caitil is lame. If that’s the baseline for good characters no wonder the new ones are so cringe.
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4 RepliesEdited by Trafalgar_Lou: 3/6/2023 6:03:20 PM“This is where we die guardian, let us be immortalised in legend forever” Most epic line in the Dlc for sure
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1 ReplyOne character moment I really liked from Caiatl in the 'campaign' is her interview with Jisu. When the subject turns to Torobatl's destruction, Jisu extends his sympathies, saying that Neomuna knows what it's like to lose a homeworld. Caiatl responds with "I do not place much value in your 'sympathies', Mr Calerondo. They were of little value to Earth." It feels like she's actually angry with Neomuna for hiding away all this time, through the collapse, through the Red War, everything. It's very characteristic of her nature as a warrior empress, as she would probably think Neomuna cowardly, but I like to think that part of it is because she's grown fond of Earth and lays part of the blame for Earth's distress with Neomuna. I don't know, I just think it's neat.
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1 ReplyNah, -blam!- Caitl. She didn't fist bump my uh...friend Nimrod at the end. I've got to call the press and get Jesus Colorado on this!
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Neither Osiris or Saint have much personality . All Osiris seems to do is moan like an old crank. That said grumpy Osiris is still more tolerable than ‘pew pew bang kapow’ nimbus by a long way . Cayde had a level of humour vs levity but they can’t seem to produce characters like that anymore . I don’t even know why they keep highlighting the relationship it’s largely not relevant to the story anyways when it comes up .
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That epic fight mission felt like Infinity War with how she arrived to help. Probably the best mission of the campaign. Especially when the Tormentors appear and you and your buddies are screaming like little girls trying to avoid being caught by them. Truly a pinnacle fighting moment that we need more of.
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I love the radio message where Caital is talking to the news guy and she’s all like “Yeah, I would’ve gladly conquered the Sol system but I had other priorities”, and “I have zero sympathy for Neomuna being invaded by the dark’s forces because you’ve been hiding while the rest of us have been at fighting for our lives.”
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Yeah she is really well written. I personally really enjoy characters who essentially are no-compromise like her and Saladin. She mentions the shadow legion gets a chance to join her, otherwise they would be rightfully eliminated because of who they are following. She has zero tolerance for hive because of what happened to her homeworld. Saladin is similar for the humanity first side of things. I wish saint and Osiris were never retconned into a relationship. Being battle brothers was far more badass and likely would have had more opportunities to show them fighting together.
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No that would be nimbus and his weird looking nipples
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It would have been nice to play as a Strand empowered Caitl for the final boss battle.
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1 ReplyThe entire Neomunia -blam!- is so badly thought out, it makes zero sense at all. They ceded defence to guardians, yet have access to technology and weapons far beyond earths golden age as a result of not losing centuries of technolgy due to the cataclysm. They then successfully hid themselves away from the witness leaving earth to die because obviously they knew somehow the witness was coming, although the witness somehow didnt know about them. Neomuna didnt warn earth or hide earth from the witness of course. Thus neomunis avoided the cataclysm, but earth...whos technology was equal at the time did not see, and could not hide from the witness in a similar way. Strangely the witness has no issue at all finding them this time despite their leaps in technology since his first visit? Earth somehow misplaced an entire GIANT planet, which everyone on earth suddenly and mysteriously FORGOT ABOUT? It would have been in their nav systems, star charts, books, but hey, we dumb. When they got invaded, why were all thehighly advanced defence systems and huge cannons we see not working? In the worst EVER training montage ever we see nimbus restart them all lol....i mean wtf. The witness, some super old, crazy intelligent danger from the stars has placed mysterious devices that affect our powers, our KNOWN powers as osiris wines....are you telling me this witness didnt take into account powers he is all too familiar with? He knows of them all. He disables a tank, our light, our dark stasis but oh dam....he forgot strand! Spidey web slinging wasnt thought out at all, it never occured to them it could allow previously unavialable areas in other content to be reached and exploited. Bumgie needs to hire some writers with brains, i think they hired some twitter weirdos by mistake.
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I just think it was odd that we're killing her father and even though she had a moment or two to shine in the campaign, it mostly felt like no one cared about anything. Daughter v father literally went nowhere. The shift went straight into "what is The Veil?", "The Witness is up to...something? I guess?", and us just kinda being confused. And we effectively learned nothing of value really. Solely based on in game dialog, player actions, and cutscenes. Story is still too deeply told via lore alone imo. So for the next year, all we have is spoon fed seasonal story beats 4x until The Final Shape, maybe another original non reprised dungeon, and the upcoming Lightfall raid to extract any concrete ideas from the narrative and conclude the story. We're at the end of the book...End of the movie... And we still really don't know what's at stake. In fact, the "good guys"/Vanguard have been wrong about virtually everything since the Destiny 1 narrative began. In a nutshell, the in game story is: we learned nothing and we don't know what's happening. Also, we got people speaking passionately about not giving up and an old gay man that's in love with a gay robot...We won't show them doing much, but you're welcome that we shared their -blam!- life with you. I feel like I know more about them than The Witness or what's happening at this point. Whyyyyyy!?
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I completely agree. Caital is consistent. Fighting along side her was the most interesting part of the dlc, especially when i pushed some enemies right into her stomp. Teamwork 😘. Just waiting to see how they ruin my boy drifter. The last thing the franchise had going for it was the story that was shaping up to be grandiose Especially after the setup from WC and... They blew it.
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4 RepliesCharacters need to stop talking down to our character, who's yet to stand up for themselves. We've done things no other NPC character could think of and yet we're still treated like rookies in the story lol
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That was well said about Saint and Osiris. Their relationship would have appeared less “forced” if they started fighting together. That might have been good dialogue as well.
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This was her story as much as our and bungie blew it.
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Edited by Avelithe: 3/7/2023 1:45:08 PMYou said it best. Thank you. I had this same problem with characters I used to love. Especially Crow. I adored him. He turned into my favorite character. But then something happened, he did some… out of character stuff like accidentally kill a Psion because he apparently had compassion for the Hive? And whining about this and that? It’s moronic. He was already a flawed cinnamon roll, but Bungie’s writers felt the need to add MORE flaws that just makes him feel downright unlikeable. I HATE what the writers are doing to him. He was already pursuing a decent redemption arc before the silly shoehorned mess he got himself in for the sole purpose to make Saladin become one of Caiatl’s war council. I just… why?! Ffs. It makes me unreasonably [b]angry[/b]. Don’t get me started on Mithrax. I was thrilled when Bungie decided to make him a full-fledged character after meeting him on Titan. I didn’t think it would happen, but it did, and I was THERE FOR IT. Splicer was great. And then Plunder happened. The personal drama between him and Eido was so uninteresting that I started to feel deeply disappointed in his character arc. And how the flip flap floppin’ floop does Eido NOT know that her dad was a “pirate that killed people”? What? Are you telling me, after the many times she’s been around Eliksni that would possibly recognize Mithrax for what he is/was, did not somehow relay this to Eido? That, and I did not like how Bungie forced us to “like” Eido. I wanted to. I know Bungie was going for a “protect the little sister” archetype, but it would work better if we got to know her more, and actually… you know… care. Man, now I’m all frustrated again. Just glad I didn’t preorder Lightfall and chose to skip it. Edit: There’s nothing wrong with seeing personal relationships, but in my opinion, it should NEVER EVER take over the main storyline. If it helps move the story along, then fine, but in my opinion, most of these romance and slice of life situations SHOULD be in lore tabs, or listened to in a computer.
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6 RepliesI don't know about the rest of you guys, but I always disliked Osiris. Always found him to be arrogant, entitled and insolent. Especially considering his relevance to the plot. Curse of Osiris? Infinite copies of yourself and you still needed us to fix your problem. Cult of simps? Whack. Walking up to Clovis bot and claiming "you have no equal." Cute. Personally, I think Lightfall was totally on brand. It just exposed him for what he really is.
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I seriously think the vanguard was sitting at the helm staring at the boarded up window the entire time. I personally was disappointed by the tone of the expansion. I was expecting it to feel like we were going into all out war, time was of the essence, and we’re on our own because everyone else is holding the line back on earth. The strand montage for example was a moment that completely clashed with that tone. I think the best moment in the campaign was in the final mission when we team up with Caiatl to fend off the shadow legion because that actually fell in line with that tone. I think there’s several things that could have helped with the tone. For example: A message from Ikora during a mission where she asks us to stay strong, and trust in the light while there’s gun fire in the background. Zavala being interrupted mid sentence by having to be revived by his ghost when he randomly comes on the coms to provide exposition. They’re just voice lines, but could at the very least remind you what’s at stake. I think having the vanguard being completely absent from the campaign was a mistake, and distanced our character from the greater conflict.
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3 RepliesI would like to see Osiris get flattened by half a dozen Cabal drop pods to be honest. The guy is just a miserable, grumpy old wet blanket of a character, and I just don't want to see him or hear him anymore.
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The fight along caitl was the best part of the campaign
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11 RepliesAlso, about Caiatl... [spoiler]... probably many people already said this, but Caiatl had to finish Calus. Honestly, not see her give the final hit to Calus was so bad. Why couldn't she join us at the last part of the battle against Calus and, in the Cutscene, makes her give the final blow? Maybe with a couple of lines between them during the fight. What a missed opportunity...[/spoiler]
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The story is pretty bad all right but the worst part is us, "the hero". The hero is akin to an insecure kid that follows orders while nodding, while his annoying pipsqueak friend speaks for him.
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1 ReplyEdited by TeKnoVKNG23: 3/6/2023 10:55:59 PMGreat post. Osiris is a horrible partner, just runs off and does his own stuff all the time without even really considering Saint's thoughts or feelings. While that could be an interesting relationship, given the way they've done it in game it just feels like a check box item. Devrim's relationship feels so much more real and interesting and we've only heard him talk about Marc. Also sucks that Drifter has basically just been left to rot. Given his knowledge of the darkness and connection to the Nine you'd think he'd be much more involved with the story, but he's been reduced to a vendor and that's about it.
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2 RepliesIdk what to comment beside that i agree. Caitl is d2's best written and voice acted character.