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3/6/2023 5:33:40 AM
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Potential spoiler discussion: The Witness knew this would happen and planned for it.
I'm doing my 2nd play through on legendary, and I noticed something while watching the cutscene at the end of the 3rd mission.
Our ghost suddenly intercepts a message from the Witness to Calus. Knowing that ghost gets possessed by the Witness at the very end if the campaign, it dawned on me that the Witnesses dialog from that early cutscene seems like he knew Calus would fail and we'd be there to stop him. This makes sense since the Witness originally had no plans to use Calus and seems to tread Calus very different from his other disciples, as he seems to treat Calus as a disposable tool.
Given that the Witness has connected with our ghost and possessed him before, it seems likely this was his plan all along to access the Veil.
So, literally, had we stayed on Earth and fought the good fight, we could have won. This also begs the question if this was why Osiris was so obsessed with finding the veil since he drank Nezarec and is likely under the Witnesses' influence. I mean as soon as we land on Neomuna, Osiris main goal is to get us to the veil at all cost and all throughout the campaign he regularly tells the Cloudstriders to send us on these mission rather than having these mighty warriors whose whole existence is to defend Neomuna.
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Sacrifice a knight For the rook to over take
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Edited by Chrytor-6: 3/7/2023 6:06:10 AM[quote]So, literally, had we stayed on Earth and fought the good fight, we could have won.[/quote] I feel like if we had done that, Calus would have simply succeeded. He isn’t THAT incompetent. From what I think, it was a Win-Win for the Witness. If we stayed on Earth, Calus would’ve claimed the Veil for the Witness. If we stopped Calus, the Witness would use our ghost to do it. The Witness probably told Calus to destroy the veil while showing us its conversation in order to get us to closely protect it, and use our ghost to do… whatever it did once we beat Calus. Knowing we would defeat Calus, and the Veil wouldn’t have been in danger. If we didn’t go to Neomuna, the Witness probably wouldn’t have told Calus to destroy the veil, and just tell him to secure it and get it to activate. Which yeah, it’s possible Calus could have failed at this, but I doubt the two cloudstriders, Caiatl and an old man with no powers could have beaten Calus and the shadow legion. Our character is pretty much a powerhouse who does everything. So without us, I doubt they would’ve stopped Calus.
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6 RepliesYour last point about Osiris being influenced by the Witness since he literally drank Nezarec’s essence and essentially has given Nezarec a body, that point is super interesting and I think opens up a whole can of worms that needs to be explored. However your other point that if we “stayed home and fought the good fight”, is just kind of wrong. It just always would’ve been a losing battle. If we stayed home, Calus would’ve eventually found the Veil and wouldn’t have been interrupted by us at all, allowing the Witness to do the same thing. And we already saw what happens if we DO go to Neptune to stop Calus, so yeah. It was always gonna be a lose lose scenario.
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Yup. Dangled him out there with enough force to be a threat but not enough to stop us. Knowing it needed a Ghost to unlock the portal. It had to get one of us, and one of the best at that, to go out there, discard that slob and lose our Ghost to boot. Not a bad manipulation. Taking the heros immortality, chefs kiss. Plus with Osiris now tainted? At least the seasons might be interesting.
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I’ve questioned the same thing after all we’ve disposed of ( or contained)some of the witnesses top disciples. We beat Savathün and Rhulk couldn’t even get out of the box she put him then we killed him too. We’ve bested the fanatic and some his best corpses. Then there’s Erimis who we’re 3-0 with. We killed Oryx with out breaking a sweat and repeatedly held off any incursion by Xivu Arath; and slayed the second weakest worm god Xol. Not to mention the vex beings the witness can’t even control.So obviously unless the witness interjected directly it probably knew Calus didn’t stand a chance against a group that felled literal gods. It ‘twas indeed all a hoax to get us to be in the right place at the right time, we are by far the witnesses most effective disciple despite we never asked for the position or drank the punch (knowingly)
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I see my theory wayyyy back in plunder/early seraph is coming back about Osiris being inhabited by Nezzie
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1 ReplyI agree, but I would also say that the Witness first plan was for Calus to succeed. If Calls had succeeded the Witness would be in a way better position, they’d still have their disciple, the shadow legion and control of neomuna. BUT I’d wager that the Witness saw the outcome in the Campaign as way more likely, so they planned for this too (potentially even in greater detail than if Calis had succeeded)
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Edited by Ojang: 3/6/2023 5:42:30 AMNo if we stayed on Earth we would’ve lost even worse than if we had gone to Neptune as not only would the radial mast have linked with the veil but the veil also would’ve been destroyed afterwards and we wouldn’t be able to use it ourselves. The ghost was merely a back up plan as like the radial mast ghosts are powerful artfiacts of light which was necessary to create the link with the traveller.
