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Edited by WillyT: 2/21/2023 10:36:21 PM
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WillyT

The Vanguard Difficulty Blog Post Is...Concerning

That's just my gut reaction. I LOVE the idea of the game being more challenging and forcing you to engage more -- currently Vanguard Strikes are just a snooze fest with no reason to play. What worries me is that there was 0 talk of changes to the game's reward structure. You can't just go and crank the difficulty knob in a game like this - that only solves half the problem. If things get significantly more difficult but the rewards structure isn't reworked to fit those changes, then all we're gonna have is a game that feels like even more of a grindy slog. Legend Lost Sectors seem like a great activity to use as an example. They aren't getting updated drop rates, as Bungie says [quote]We will be monitoring completion rates and times during Season 20 to see if Exotic engram drop rates need to be adjusted.[/quote] The biggest complaint of Legend Lost Sectors is [b][i]by far[/i][/b] the horrible RNG grind that comes with them. Sometimes you do luck out and get an exotic right away, but its extremely common to have to run it 15-20+ times in order to get your drop. Even if you get the drop, there is 0 farmability after the fact because you're at the mercy of RNG once again to try and get the one specific exotic you're looking for. Simply making Legend Lost Sectors harder is only going to add to this complaint, and it'll probably grow by an exponential amount. The same thing goes for strikes. Its already a slog to try and grind for a god-rolled Vanguard weapon because the loot pool is big, and the perk pools are even bigger (looking at you, Prolonged Engagement). It'll only be more of a painful grind if the activities are harder and take longer to complete. I think this playlist will (hopefully) be hit less hard, since we're getting Vanguard focusing in Lightfall, but its still a concern. I want D2 to be challenging - that's when its at its best. This sounds -at face value- like a half baked job though. Its like if you were to buy a beat up house just to tear it down and put a new one up, but you simply call it quits after demo'ing the old house. Not only is the job half finished, but you're left in a worse spot than you were before. I'm obviously gonna give it a shot, and try my best to keep an open mind because its never a good idea to pass judgement of something we haven't even gotten our hands on yet (yes, shots fired at a certain class who's unhappy with upcoming abilities lol). Still, this is worrisome to say the least. EDIT: Wanted to add something else that I forgot to write but really stuck out -- removing Match Game had me super excited, but then you cut our damage in half against mismatched shields throughout the entire game? So now we're just gonna have "Match Game Lite" active all the time...it feels like there's a serious lack of logic here.

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  • I won't talk about everything, but you'll be a le to get into Lost Sectors 20 levels over, so they should become significantly easier as time goes on and you progress. Also, we'll have the overcharge/surges, and we have artifact PERKS now, in addition to all our armor mod slots. Basically, the game will only become harder if you stack on random mismatched -blam!-. If you put stuff together that makes sense together, it's not gonne become harder.

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    • I think exotic farming is more intended to be done in nightfalls or gm’s. It’s the best armour in the game, should be coming from an activity that reflects this. But unlocking new exotics in lost sectors has been an excellent change from the old ways of “you might get it one day”. New seasons exotic catch your eye? Alright just go get it then, so much better

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      • It’s the vanguard opps

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      • I wish they would have improved or changed up the enemy A.I but ehh . Still excited for the changes tho

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        • Hey now all they gotta do is pull a even more Classic Bungie move and take the good gear we already have away from us for the fifteenth time and we will be back to year one D2 BETA. Hooray. This game company needs to grow up and have some integrity already. This corpo slave mentality is killing me. It's also killing the game. How about instead of more power grind you ditch that outdated crap system and add engrams that actually have better drops in them. Wow original concept. It took me two brain cells to think of that and it's better than anything they put in they're twab this week. Sadness ensues...

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        • Edited by Morakx: 2/22/2023 1:57:02 PM
          Lack of exciting rewards and variety in fun and fresh content was the issue tho. Not difficulty. The most popular grinded activities in the past were never challenging. They had good loot and were kinda fun to repeat. Prison of elders, escalation protocol, forges, reckoning, menagerie, sundial. Nothing of those was challenging. Loot was great, it was easy content to mindlessly farm and chill with fun goofy loadouts and music. Now apparently they want us to buy gaming chairs, gamer glasses, gamer drinks and build craft to the maximum after grinding triple 100 stat splits, run meta loadouts and drain our gaming chairs in sweat to overcome the challenge of a hero strike. And the reward is a vanguard chest piece with a 57 roll. If you're lucky.

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          • As far as rewards go I think the change for artifice armor makes it worth the increase, maybe boost the bonus stat from 3 to 4 but I guess we’ll have to see how it plays out first For master raids the addition of enhanced perks alone I don’t feel is enough. I think the adept mods in general should be more powerful. Adept big ones for example I feel should grant a bigger damage bonus than normal big ones. This would also help other adept weapons from GMs and Trials

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          • thank all the streamers for ruining destiny 2 because all they want is more videos to make money

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            • Edited by Gunship: 2/22/2023 8:06:18 AM
              [quote]That's just my gut reaction. I LOVE the idea of the game being more challenging and forcing you to engage more -- currently Vanguard Strikes are just a snooze fest with no reason to play. What worries me is that there was 0 talk of changes to the game's reward structure. You can't just go and crank the difficulty knob in a game like this - that only solves half the problem. If things get significantly more difficult but the rewards structure isn't reworked to fit those changes, then all we're gonna have is a game that feels like even more of a grindy slog. Legend Lost Sectors seem like a great activity to use as an example. They aren't getting updated drop rates, as Bungie says [quote]We will be monitoring completion rates and times during Season 20 to see if Exotic engram drop rates need to be adjusted.[/quote] The biggest complaint of Legend Lost Sectors is [b][i]by far[/i][/b] the horrible RNG grind that comes with them. Sometimes you do luck out and get an exotic right away, but its extremely common to have to run it 15-20+ times in order to get your drop. Even if you get the drop, there is 0 farmability after the fact because you're at the mercy of RNG once again to try and get the one specific exotic you're looking for. Simply making Legend Lost Sectors harder is only going to add to this complaint, and it'll probably grow by an exponential amount. The same thing goes for strikes. Its already a slog to try and grind for a god-rolled Vanguard weapon because the loot pool is big, and the perk pools are even bigger (looking at you, Prolonged Engagement). It'll only be more of a painful grind if the activities are harder and take longer to complete. I think this playlist will (hopefully) be hit less hard, since we're getting Vanguard focusing in Lightfall, but its still a concern. I want D2 to be challenging - that's when its at its best. This sounds -at face value- like a half baked job though. Its like if you were to buy a beat up house just to tear it down and put a new one up, but you simply call it quits after demo'ing the old house. Not only is the job half finished, but you're left in a worse spot than you were before. I'm obviously gonna give it a shot, and try my best to keep an open mind because its never a good idea to pass judgement of something we haven't even gotten our hands on yet (yes, shots fired at a certain class who's unhappy with upcoming abilities lol). Still, this is worrisome to say the least. EDIT: Wanted to add something else that I forgot to write but really stuck out -- removing Match Game had me super excited, but then you cut our damage in half against mismatched shields throughout the entire game? So now we're just gonna have "Match Game Lite" active all the time...it feels like there's a serious lack of logic here.[/quote] Re: Edit especially Bungie evidently thinks we are all stupid. They keep promising what we want then changing the sandbox to push their agenda, max money for min work, to insure we are set back further than any gain we asked for would have helped. Re: the rest of the post. I don't EVER want Bungie to add difficulty or challenge. Primarily because Bungie does not comprehend these things. When Bungie thinks they are adding Challenge, they are really ONLY adding tedium, grind, and very [i][b]conditional[/b][/i] success circumstances. Only beat high level content with certain weapons, certain builds, non-matchmade fireteams, etc. Challenge happens when a game tests us for skills the game taught us, that we actually learned, so we get the sense of earned accomplishment. Destiny pretends to challenge when in fact all they are doing is GRIND GATING or COMPLIANCE GATING every activity. In summary: Bungie is wasting our time.

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              • I don't know, to me it sounds like this is the refresh to existing content that a ton of people have been asking for quite some time. And the new approach will be applied to the new content as well. As far as reward placing it's not necessarily a bad thing for them to want observe how things are engaged with overall before drop rates and all that approaches something that looks more like it's final form. Final form for now, because stuff like that is always changing and has always changed it's just a new release now so it's getting switched up just like things have gotten switched up in the past.

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                • Looks like adaptive munitions is gonna be mandatory.

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                  • Edited by Hunter_Umbra: 2/21/2023 11:57:22 PM
                    What we say: "Remember strike-specific loot? We want more of that." What Bungie hears: "We want strikes to take even longer to get a measly +1 pinnacle that will likely go to the one slot we didn't need it in."

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                    • Brain dead design is what it is. Same people who say they don’t want bullet sponge enemies so they will just lower your damage output instead. Same end results, different method and they act like it’s a a magic trick of design.

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                      • It appears the base strike playlist isn’t changing much. The new surge and threat system appears to just be a version of singes where the incoming and outgoing modifiers can be for different types (Ex. take additional arc damage but deal extra void damage to enemies.) Nightfalls, especially master Nightfalls seem to be made more difficult through various changes. Hero nightfalls are just going away, no more non-champ nightfalls. Master Raids are going to be very tough as they now have the -20 enforced power cap on them same as other master content. They said they’re trying to move away from extra champs though and you’re going to get surge and weapon type damage bonuses w/o Threat modifiers. The biggest and potentially most impactful change is the removal of match game. This sounds good on paper, but Bungie is introducing a 50% damage resist to non-matching shield damage EVERYWHERE. This means you’ll be eating to match shields in all content as you’ll have a harder time burning through them. Surges and the weapon type bonus thing don’t stack, meaning you can easily get a 25% damage bonus in most PvE activities. I think they’re hoping this will offset the enemy tankiness buffs in Hero+ content as long as you build around it. The weapon type bonus thing will also be a part of the anti-champ unlocks in the artifact. TLDR, basic strike playlist looks to be the same but you’ll probably want to match shields. (May have the -5 level cap thing, couldn’t figure that out). Nightfalls are all getting harder (Hero and GM less so than Legend and Master). Master Raids are going to be much harder. Lost Sectors, Master Wellspring, etc will likely be harder but “more rewarding” Not terrible, but going to have to wait and see.

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                      • [quote]We will be monitoring [/quote] So, it takes years to do this, how's that working out?

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                        • I still fully expect starfire protocol to smoke through any and all content.

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                          • The best part of this whole shtshow is the "We will be monitoring" part haha yeh 3 seasons later

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                          • I play this game a lot A LOT, but i hate strikes, whats the god roll for this smg?

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                            • [quote]What worries me is that there was 0 talk of changes to the game's reward structure.[/quote] I thought they already did this via updating the reward structure of the game's vendors per each core activity. [quote]They aren't getting updated drop rates, as Bungie says[/quote] Though they did say that lost sectors won't be the only way to obtain lightfall exotic armors. So that partially addresses feedback related to rewards of said content. As no one I know or have seen target farms sectors for anything but that armor.

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