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Edited by Skully:
1/24/2023 9:34:13 AM
27
Increased Hunter Dodge Cooldown
This here, was completely and utterly unnecessary.
There’s nothing problematic about the Hunter’s dodge in Crucible, since it literally provides us zero protection where we can easily die while using it, and we can’t even fight back while using it. It’s literally not hard at all to kill a dodging Hunter. You literally just have to change where you’re aiming to the smallest degree. Like, the dodge needs either enhanced damage resilience or invincibility frames to be viable in anyway. Doesn’t help that the animation is so slow as well, making us all the more easy to kill while using it. Like, why is it that Stasis and an Exotic helmet are the only thing that makes the dodge viable in PVP?
Warlocks got no increased cooldown, when their class ability is literally either a damage buff or a constant heal, AND a shoulder turret or ability/health draining orb on particular aspects.
Titans very much deserved the increased class ability cooldown, though, considering they can literally throw down walls that damage enemies just for touching it, or gain enhanced reload speed, stability and range, or sacrifice their class ability entirely for a shield while sprinting with Arc.
Hunters? Just a melee ability refresh when in a certain range from enemies or a quick reload, which can both easily get us killed. Use Lethal Current? The jolting and aftershock don’t even one-shot, despite the fact that we’re literally combining our class ability and melee ability into one attack. Use Stasis? It’s just a slow, so still easy to get killed while using it. Acrobat’s Dodge may be decent since it’s a damage buff, but the other two are lacking.
Speaking of, how much of a damage increase even is Radiant?
Also, the fact that Mobility is a useless stat and we Hunters have to build into it is already bad enough, so to force us to have to build into it even further is such bullsh*t.
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40 RepliesWhy would they increase warlock cooldowns when they already have the longest cooldowns in game?... Make it make sense.
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Skill issue.
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A hunter who can’t understand the strength of their dodge shouldn’t be a hunter at all
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1 ReplyAhhh you can't just spam dodge for an easy win any more aye
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14 RepliesHunter dodge can, depending on how you use it: 100% refund melee energy 100% reload equipped weapon Heal you get you back behind cover faster than changing walk/sprint direction break AA break tracking turn you invisible Let's compare that to the other class abilities shall we? Warlock rift can: heal and provide overshield OR Increase weapon damage and range form black hole buddy that deals negligible damage and can be popped with relative ease form arc buddy that can be easily waited out or baited into missing shots (and also gets its aim thrown off by dodge) Titan Barricade can: block bullets (unless they're Anti-Barrier) Generate overshield offer some damage resist increase reload speed Deals some damage if walked through class element offers benefits when barricade is walked through: suppress for void, blind for arc, burn for solar CANNOT kill (always leaves you at 1hp) 7 possibilities for Hunter Dodge. 4 for Warlock. 5 for Titan, plus conditional non-lethal damage And looking at what those are... OS on warlock rift gets taken out by 1 HC shot to the head, or a few AR hits to the body. Healing is outdamaged by almost everything. Increased gun damage on power rift is nice, but the size of the rift means you either have to duck in and out of cover with it, or you're a sitting duck. Limits the use to specific circumstances. child is easy to deal with and easy to kill. arc buddy is easy to bait out and easy to avoid in general. barricade is cover, sure, but AB rounds pierce through it and there's a host of grenades that invalidate it entirely if used right. Not to mention that while the damage is high, if someone's coming through your barricade they're either stupid af and you were gonna win that anyways or they know something you don't and you were gonna lose that anyways. Now let's look at hunter shall we? 100% refund of melee. This means you have ability spam potential unlike any other. Melee, dodge, melee. And if you run arc hunter you can infinite chain melee and dodge, and if you're in someone's face like that, only way they're beating you is with a shotgun. 100% weapon reload. You can peek, fire, peek, fire, peek, fire, until you run out, pop out, chuck a nade, dodge back into cover, and start the cycle over again without ever having to reload your gun. You can engage in any gunfight with the confidence that when you run out of ammo, you don't need to take the time to reload, you can dodge into cover and peek some more. No other class can do that so easily. Heal you...Remember wormhusk? Well now your dodge can do that by itself! You can just...NOPE your way out of an engagement, dodge behind cover, and there ya go! You have health again, assuming you lost any before. Just imagine stacking that WITH wormcrutch... You have advantage in peeks. Warlock and Titan, even with max mobil, can't get behind cover as effectively as you. Dodging gets you behind cover far better than simply walking behind it. Yknow that pesky aim assist PC players give console players crap about? yeah, dodge laughs at that stuff. Dodge and AA craps itself trying to figure out where you went. Icarus dash never did that, titan rush doesn't do that. How about tracking rockets? seeking projectiles? well, dodge is like dropping flares: they have NO idea where you are once you do it. No other class can just...NOPE their way out of being tracked. and invisibility...Being able to turn invisible every time you have your dodge is ridiculous. No other class has as many avenues for obtaining invis as you do, and while that in and of itself is fine, look at it like this: Even the thing EVERY class can do, you STILL do best. Hunter dodge is more powerful, more versatile, than ANY OTHER CLASS ABILITY. And you want to complain that you now have to wait nearly as long as the other classes do in order to use it? You want to complain that the cooldowns are as close to even as they've ever been? Get over it. It's better than Rift taking 40 seconds and Dodge taking 9 seconds like they used to. Rather everyone have identical cooldowns, it's more fair that way.
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1 ReplyEdited by Hawpy: 1/24/2023 2:25:15 PMSo in short - give Hunters i-frames during Dodge like this is Dark Souls [i]and[/i] nerf Warlocks, the worst-performing class in Crucible? Got it.
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Marksman Dodge 80 Mob = 20 seconds (from 16) 90 Mob = 18 seconds (from 15) 100 Mob = 16 seconds (from 14) Gambler Dodge 80 Mob = 27 seconds (from 22) 90 Mob = 24 seconds (from 20) 100 Mob = 21 seconds (from 18)
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The reason why we also got nerfed was a check and balance issue . Titans needed the nerf but with that hunters aswell
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I'm showing bungie what I think by my playtime which has been non existent since the decision to nerf barricade cooldown and hunter dodge
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9 RepliesEdited by NotCreative123: 1/24/2023 3:43:13 PMHunter Dodge by itself isn't great, but the abilities that accompany it certainly are (Invis, healing, melee energy, reload weapons, faster handling, etc.). It's silly that Titans and Hunters are used twice as much as Warlocks BTW, I'm a Hunter main
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Sounds like somebody can’t play hunter
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10 RepliesDestiny equivelant of decrease teachers salary
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If you don’t know how to use Dodge properly just say that. Dodge on its own is a great ability with a high skill gap. It’s great for going 3rd person and seeing your surroundings, great for slide challenging lanes. Now with AE on primaries being fixed again you can slide challenge dodge back to cover and single jump challenge the lane and jump back into cover.
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Hunters just get crapped on no matter what. They been doing it for yrs
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5 Repliesaim assist break Free melee energy free get out of jail free card on a STUPIDLY low cd. When warlock can instant cast well or get an over shield when they cast it in crucible THEN you can stop crying
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16 RepliesEdited by Cold_Flame: 1/24/2023 3:25:49 PMThe fact that you don't know the benefit the dodge can provide the hunter proves your point has no value. Your dodge can heal you, reload your guns, invis, flash bang the enemies just to name a few.
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1 ReplyAnd remember all abilities cool down timers were already increased a while back. So dumb. Bungie: “Here are these super cool class-defining abilities but we don’t want you to actually use them.”
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You get so many benefits for dodging it’s insane. Your take is completely biased. It takes at least four actions to get out of cover in a meaningful way. Most players have to practice to achieve this and in end game pvp people use this movement on steroids to slide backwards, forwards, etc over and over again. Snap mouse to a 90* W key Sprint key Slide key For a hunter literally it takes 1. You have it immediately when loading up a hunter. Can reload your gun, take you immediately back to cover, reload melee, make you invis, boost your damage, stop aim assist, blink or heal. Once again. Hunters. are. not. oppressed. Also many high level PVP players can and have gone on record remarking how invis is broken still. It is hard to see, and it has no downtime for ONLY benefits.
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3 RepliesLmao keep crying
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Edited by Kiro - 13: 1/24/2023 8:50:51 PMJust tested the dodge change, it was the worst case scenario for gamblers and best case for marksmen. The nerf could have gone down 2 ways. With a flat 20% on top or 20% that scales per each tier. [b]This equates to 28% increased cool down for gamblers dodge at tier 100mobility 18sec to 23sec. Marksmen dodge received a 21%(rounded up) or 22%(rounded down) increased CD at tier 100mobility 14sec to 17sec.[/b] Streamers were claiming gamblers would go from 18 to 21 but its 18 to 23(for gamblers). I myself took a doom and gloom stance and did not trust the streamers because its Bungie. & we all know with Bungie you should expect the worst. Edit: my marksmen dodge math was off though it was 15 seconds but it was 14sec.
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Yup, big bummer, and just generally an un-called for nerf. Also true of the titan class ability cooldown nerf. Not cool
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Another whining hunter post, how shocking. Dodge breaks aim assist and is essentially a get out of jail free card. You lack knowledge and it shows.
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There are not enough people playing warlocks to justify nerfing it and if they did I guarantee people would be jumping ship to a different class the same day they did.
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14 RepliesI'd also like to point out that you most CERTAINLY get Invince frames on your dodge. I didn't believe it till i saw someone dodge through a death barrier, anyone who says otherwise is cracked.
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TL;DR: I don’t think call ability cool down nerfs are going to be as bad as it looks for any class. ——- I was almost this salty when they removed one hit kill shoulder charges. But after playing with it a bit, and realizing that in end game PvP, I rarely lived long enough to shoulder charge, it didn’t really matter. Plus, I tested this, unless you’re wearing perigreens and get the kill, you’re extremely weak immediately after a shoulder charge if it doesn’t kill. Like, they can basically one punch you at full health and you’re dead. Wife’s hunter did this in private consistently when testing. Tested with her at multiple resilience and me at 100 every time. Pve wasn’t much better. No exotic or sub-class helped. I now mostly use it as a movement aspect as opposed to a strategy with any combat utility in mind. As for the Hunter dodge nerf, a tad bleh about it as with Gravaton, the aspect for longer invisibility, 100 mobility, and 2 kickstart mods, I could remain invisible indefinitely after if activated from a grenade or whatever. At some point last Saturday or so, I stopped being able to do infinite invis in GM NF. Off by one second, but it was enough to not be able to spam it. So I’m almost thinking they had already hit the timers. Friend said her rift wasn’t coming back when she’d expected it to as well. That “muscle memory” thing coming into play for both of us and getting stuck when we thought we’d have our abilities back. Meh, some minor adjustments and we were good. That said, between the adaptive buff (I have a hero’s burden with repulsor brace) and gyrfalcon, you can proc invis and a shield nearly constantly. Plus on solar with every class (not even counting arc hunter’s arc punch loop), with incandescent and multiple correct aspects slotted you can still get your class abilities back really quickly. Worst case, we start farming weapons with the wellspring perk. 😉 So I’m thinking all n all, there aren’t horrible game breaking changes. A few minor adjustments here and there and we should all be good. 🤷♂️
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The dodge is absolutely fine to get a cooldown nerf. Being able to freely reload, or more importantly, get back a full melee charge is super strong, especially since Hunter melees are some of the most powerful abilities in the game (besides the Stasis melee)
