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1/18/2023 11:55:56 PM
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Some thoughts on current weapon balance in pvp
Pulses are so overturned. They compete with scouts and straight up beat Handcannons and autos who are more or less in the same boat. People always complain handcannons are broken? If a weapon has to rely on peek shooting to be strong, it's not broken. If anything it's pointing out the weakness of the weapon.
Scouts are doing fine given the meta.
Bows are obnoxious and feel cheap, they're not broken, but they're not fun to fight.
Smgs and Sidearms are pretty much uncontested in cqc as primaries. Considering that a lot of gunfights happen in small areas these weapons are pretty damn strong. Even the rapid fire variants of each weapon type can't compete. They're just way to dominant in cqc, to the point that a special weapon is your best counter. I'd say it's way more of a problem than being killed by a scout halfway across the map.
Specials: Snipers seem alright I think. There may be a few to many ways to make them unflinchable, but whatever.
Fusions are so -blam!- dominant right now, due to the fact that shotguns do not have a lot of range and in this longer range meta with pulses, closing the gap is pretty rough. Shotguns feel better, but ultimately have to get really damn close up to secure a 1 shot.
Special GLs are much like bows obnoxious and cheap.
Trace rifles and Glaives aren't particularly dangerous enough to even threaten fusions either although they do well against shotguns.
Heavy weapons... LMG's are hurting. They need to kill faster or have ridiculous forgiveness. A lot of weapons can fight an LMG and still win.
Rockets are pretty good. Balanced and strong.
Linears and Heavy GL's are more or less on the same level. Different ranges and uses, but overall solid choices.
Swords are solid at base. Eager edge on the other hand is not really all that well balanced for PvP... It's fun I get it, but people don't have aimbot like skills to shoot the guy flying at mach speed for an easy kill. All the other heavies can be avoided or allow you to kill the user this one uh yeah.
Summary? Pulses need some reigning in. Smgs and sidearms need some sort of tuning. Fusions definitely need to be looked at. Trace rifles need something else to really make em stand out. Machine guns need a -blam!- buff. Eager edge was probably a mistake.
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2 RepliesWith bows I think Bungie can make them charge faster, but add flinch to them in pvp, that might actually make them interesting to use and not obnoxious to play against
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[quote]Smgs are sidearms are pretty much uncontested in cqc as primaries[/quote] They're the only cqc primaries, aren't they? Otherwise agree 👍
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....I'm just here to watch..
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6 RepliesDisagree on the Sidearms and SMG bit They're SUPPOSED to be cqc weapons
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2 RepliesAnything that’s not a spam cannon/Shotgun meta is overtuned apparently 🙄
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A non-HC meta, [b]FINALLLYYYY!!!!![/b] [quote]"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be"[/quote]
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1 Reply(Console) I think pulses will be fine if the headshot multiplier is rebalanced to be less forgiving. They are fair in all other respects but the game itself has evolved to make them more favorable. Scouts should stay where they are, having to fight with full damage at that range would be oppressive. Fusions...yeah screw those things. They need to be more unforgiving (either increase the number of bolts and requirement to hit, or spread. Both should basically mean that if you slide/jump whilst the volley goes off, you can't be OHK'd) Smg and sidearms are where I strongly disagree. They are the cqc weapons...what would you have them compete with ?
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4 Replies
Guardian, Archon Of LightArchon Priest Of House Light - old
This is payback for The Luna/NF meta It will end soon probably,and I wouldn't mind a meta change, but its been good times watching handcannon shotgun apes complain about pulses,DMT and fusions -
You failed to mention map weighting currently the map rotation caters to long range encounters. This has a direct effect on how weapons feel in any given space or meta.
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2 Replies[quote]Smgs and Sidearms are pretty much uncontested in cqc as primaries. Considering that a lot of gunfights happen in small areas these weapons are pretty damn strong. Even the rapid fire variants of each weapon type can't compete. They're just way to dominant in cqc, to the point that a special weapon is your best counter.[/quote] I mean, what other type of primary should excel at close range? Smg’s and sidearms should always be the ones to do that. A handcannon, pulse, auto or scout should never be able to beat a sidearm/smg at close range. Especially because sidearms/smgs can never (naturally) beat the other primaries in their respective ranges.
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Ah pvp is a glorious mess at the moment ….actually as usual . Everything is on the table , every game I play there is a mix of weapons which makes it more interesting. Still the same weapons that are fool proof ….ace , last word and a few others . For so long it was hand cannons and shot guns ….peek and shoot ….then aping ….just got boring after a while ….few years. Destiny is a space magic game 🤷🏼♂️
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1 ReplyIt is a fundamental truth of Destiny that players will always believe themselves at a disadvantage. [quote]Pulses are so overtuned.[/quote] Throughout your entire post, you harp on the idea that Pulses are overturned and ignore how strong Handcannons are. Look at usage rates in Trials. On maps that are long range, Pulses are used more. On maps that are close range, Handcannons are used more. They are two very balanced primaries, and nerfing one will just result in an upsurge of the other. Pulses and hancannons are both in a good place and don't require changes to be balanced. [quote]Scouts are doing fine given the meta.[/quote] What exactly is your idea of "fine"? With the exception of DMT, Scouts are usually used much less than handcannons and pulses. The only ranged primary weapons that see less usage than Scout Rifles on a consistent basis are auto Rifles. Scout Rifles and Auto Rifles are used much less than Pulses and Handcannons and should be tuned to be more even. [quote]SMGs and Sidearms are pretty much uncontested in cqc as primaries.[/quote] Huh. What a thought? The two lowest-range primaries are usable at close range? Weird. Even though SMGs and Sidearms beat primary weapons at close range, they often fall prey to the Special weapons that also operate in those ranges. [quote]Fusions are so *blam* dominant right now due to the fact that shotguns don't have a lot of range.[/quote] Let me stop you right there. Shotguns are almost always used more than Fusions. In fact, the only Trials weekend this season that Fusions saw more usage was on Eternity. Shotguns are the most used special weapons in the game, and the idea that Fusions should be nerfed to allow them more room to breathe is absurd. [b]Summary[/b] Pulses and handcannons are both good, but don't need nerfs. Autos and Scouts probably deserve some buffs. Shotguns and Fusions are both viable and are fine as they are. This is the most balanced weapon meta we have ever seen. If I were you, I would focus my attentions on the overwhelming advantages of certain subclasses.
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10 RepliesEdited by Eatz: 1/19/2023 12:08:31 AMIt’s as if you typed “hand cannon meta needs to come back” but you decided to try to be subtle. Smgs and sidearms are cqc, yes but you know what beats them? Range. Pulses have incredible range and ttk, but do you know what beats them? Cqc. Figured that out for you there^. Also scouts are absolutely ridiculous on long range maps like eternity and dysfunction and Vostok. Just hit your shots. Snipers are too strong, period. They counter EVERYTHING. Supers, specials, primaries. If you can hit your shots with a sniper, you are UNBEATABLE. On top of all this their body shot damage is waaaaay too high, same with slugs. Hand cannons are in the best spot they can be right now due to their potentially high flinch and ability to counter every primary at around 22-25 meters. I would say they have too much range but then we have people like you complaining about smgs. Fusions are broken I agree. Shottys are fine but slugs are too forgiving and need their body shot damage lowered. People are under the delusion that EVERYTHING has to be good to great in PvP. I disagree, something’s will be good in some parts of the game, and some aren’t. Trace rifles and machine guns are examples of this. Make them really strong in pve but leave them alone in PvP.
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Overall weapons feel pretty balanced right now with only a couple outliers. I think pulses have been pretty strong for awhile. I feel more people have just started finding out about them as the words pulse and meta have been getting thrown around. People always jump onto whatever is being talked about as the meta. The only two guns that seem a bit broken are snipers and fusions. Fusion range and ability to hit is broken AF. Sniper users can max out flinch resistance and are able to still accurately shoot thru incoming fire. Fusion and sniper use is up a lot this season in the games I play. It's not uncommon to have several people just camping lanes with red dots or just aping all game with a fusion. On the bright side I have seen more variety lately and it has been good. I see more bows, AR's, scouts, sidearms etc.. that in past seasons were a lot more uncommon. HC / shotty are fine and can still dominate lobbies but both now feel like they can be countered which has not been something that has felt possible in the past. I'm sure the HC crowd who enjoyed having a clear advantage in every gun fight are not happy right now but oh well.
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Weapons are barely an issue in the current sandbox compared to abilities and certain exotics.
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Edited by FuzzyWolf: 1/19/2023 7:58:49 AMHonestly this is one of the times the game is almost balanced pulse rifles are only doing well because of the map sizes in rotation if they put in smaller maps they wouldn't be much of an issue and smgs and sidearms would become useless if they increase the ttk I mean why use a sidearm if within the 15 to 18 meter of cqc Range you will be dueling an auto or a hand Cannon and lose even if you are hitting almost all headshots which by the way is kinda hard with suros 450 they have a lot of kick, you will have almost all fights be long range and passive, pacing would be way worse than people say it is now which I haven't really noticed especially with how good precision shotguns got after the rework people are still zooming all around the map in my games
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1 ReplyIf you think Hand Cannons are bad and Fusions are overturned (after a year of nerfs), you are playing in the kiddie pool and have no sense for what the [u]actual[/u] meta is right now. Nor do you understand the optimal use of any of the weapons you mentioned. We're basically in an HC/Shotty meta. Pulses are indeed strong, but only in situations where they [u]should[/u] be strong. Submachine guns need a little range hit as they hit from too far, but other than that, [u]pretty much everything is sitting where it should be [/u] Next you'll be complaining about auto rifles.
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2 RepliesI like bows.
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3 RepliesFusions are definitely a problem, pulse rifles are strong and my only issue is their range. Side arms and smg’s are fine and balanced and they should be able to melt considering their range is situational. Hand cannons are still very much used in higher skill games and they can still easily dominate with all that flinch and burst damage. They obviously fall apart at range where pulse rifles are just safer options. This is mostly a skill gap issue, when you make good players fight it out, the game tends to get slower and players tend to play more safe because they are trying to avoid dying. Just look at trials, everyone plays like they have 1hp. At least with cbmm the games were more fun because the noobs just ran around with shotguns so the pace of the game was surprisingly faster. Its weird how that works.
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Lost bungie at balance. They need the full on definition, derivative, used in a sentence, approved by the smartest potato, then factored in to the game, and by then, they already forgot what that word was again..
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4 RepliesThe weapon variety is much stronger than it used to be, though. Nowadays you can see most archetypes if not all at some point in PvP. There were days before when it was mostly a primary HC plus a shotty. I like this meta way more, personally.
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6 Repliesdid you just complain about close quarters weapons being good in close quarters? wow, crazy how that works
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1 ReplyEdited by Joulevette12: 1/19/2023 2:25:24 AMI think it's ok because I have to admit players are using other weapons besides handcannons,shotguns,fusion and submachine gun we starting to see more players use scouts,bows,pulses,auto rifles,sidearms,snipers Now compared to previous seasons especially on maps designed for mid and CQC EE is a problem now that Bungie might not have a choice but address on LightFall having that with strand will pose a problem in pvp and PvE the only way I see fixing it is that Eager Edge only activate when your foot on the ground
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3 RepliesSo.... the CQC weapons are good in CQC..... and you want them nerfed because of that. Right. Let's not do that.
