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8/20/2022 9:28:14 PM
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Why warlocks whine :)

To start off, I’ll let you know that I’m a warlock main, and while I largely use warlock in PvE activities, I rarely use it in PvP for reasons I will later list. To clarify one issue, in my own opinion and from the opinions of a lot of other warlock players (I say a lot but I mostly mean ones I’ve spoken with so obviously I can’t speak for a majority of the community) Solar 3.0 was a “nerf” as it stripped Warlocks of their identity in order to distribute their power to the other classes. A lot of these players are hesitant about Arc 3.0 for the fear that Bungie will do the same thing. While the new rework will allow for new combinations and ways to play, that shouldn’t come at the cost of Warlock’s identity. In PvE, Warlocks are designed to be energy powerhouses. A majority of their abilities (pre-light 3.0) consisted of a LOT of ability regeneration. This was largely done because Warlock’s are seen as Support, so this ability regen is often added as a way to maintain supportive capabilities at the cost of high damaging abilities. Now not all Warlock subclasses are like this, for example Nova Bomb was designed to do a decently high amount of damage while also supporting a rather powerful grenade. However, Void warlock is still capable of ability and health regen, as CotOG and Devour regen health and ability energy, making them self sustaining. But a super like Chaos Reach is currently designed to do a majority if its damage with the super, while lesser ability proc Ionic Trace so they can still be self sustaining while not dealing incredible amounts of damage. Solar Warlocks aren’t really designed for damage but largely for support (I’ll address Dawnblade in the next paragraph). So pre-light 3.0, the perk benevolent dawn was granted to warlocks to help maintain high ability regen at the cost if almost only support abilities. By giving benevolent dawn to everyone and then nerfing it, being an incredible support is less appealing. My personal fear is that with Arc 3.0, Ionic traces will be nerfed bc they’re being given to everyone. Lets get to a big point, ability comparison. Did you know that Warlocks have 0 instant killing abilities in PvP (this doesn’t include supers)? Even with added exotics, the number is still 0. Did you know that Titans have 5, including buffs from 2 exotics? Did you know that Hunters have 3, including buffs from 1 exotic? In PvP, Warlocks largely have to focus on gunplay, because often times abilities are used to buff, debuff, or distract. Icarus Dash is a perfect example of this, so too are Stasis Turrets. While there are damage abilities, not a single one is capable of defeating an opponent without help. This often isn’t too much of a bother in PvE, but in PvP its an issue. An issue that does occur in PvE is support power. With classes now having the power to heal themselves, there’s no need to bring a warlock. Now don’t get me wrong, Arc Warlocks are incredibly powerful in PvE and can be if used correctly in PvP so only getting one new toy doesn’t bother me. What does bother me is Bungie and the communities failure to realize that one class’s buff is another class’s push towards being obsolete.
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  • Honestly I don't even see much people "whining" much more so than expressing concern. everything you brought up is true especially with the fact that if we dont include supers, warlocks have zero one shot abilities while titans and hunters both do. warlocks either bring high ability damage with personal support or low ability damage with team support. right now Arc is in the gray area of both. it can be good for high DPS (chaos reach) or support (tickle fingers for ad clear) and considering the fact that solar 3.0 warlocks were mostly neutered in terms of support, solar 3.0 got left in the dust by solar 3.0 hunters and titans who dont need a well, because even without classy restoration they can go minutes of straight gunfire and taking the wrath of every enemy in the room before they finally take a dirt nap. Solar warlocks already didnt have any major damage abilities and in solar 3.0 the most we got was scorch and ignitions which still pale in comparison to throwing 24 explosive knives in the press of two buttons at the same time or standing in a fiery tornado breaking the knee caps of bosses with a hammer made of the sun until the insides of the boss have been turned into bone meal and flesh turned into a freshly smoked brisket. in Void 3.0 however Warlocks have their time to shine with damage but bring next to nothing for team support which was ok since the only thing void warlocks were best at was spirit bombing everything in a 5 mile radius. in Arc 3.0 I'm a little concerned with how Warlocks will turn out, considering we already had our time to shine for DPS I'm hoping Arc 3.0 will allow us to give the team support that we need because we already know every titan is going to become a tsar bomb and hunters are getting the Fanatic's Lighting staff as a super. [spoiler] If you ask me I think with the way Bungie is reworking the light subclasses they're giving each class a chance to shine by allowing one subclass be great for DPS, one for Great support, and one in between subclass. each class will have different subclasses that are better for said matter like how hunters have great DPS with solar and great team support with void and potentially arc being that "best of both worlds" subclass for them. [/spoiler]

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    • The biggest issue I’m starting to have it seems like Hunter and Titans I’m Void 3.0 got very defined identities and rolls. And while Warlock abilities seemed to fit the class, the role and identity of the warlock seemed to be middling. By that I mean there was a time their identities were summed up in their supers. Titans protected the team. Hunters trapped and debuffed while being illusive, and Warlocks brought the unbridled power. What happened in 3.0, Titans got more overshields and a faster Ward of Dawn. Hunters got more Invis, but then got the strongest damage super in the game. Warlocks got a shove, and an aoe debuf orb. Our best grenades given out to everyone. So, what is our identity and role?? In Solar Bungie didn’t lean into anything a Warlock had been. They took our healing grenade and gave it everyone. They put Phoenix dive in a cool down length second only to our super. We didn’t become better healers. We didn’t get more in air movement or additional movement abilities, and they made daybreak a little bit worse. Our best damage grenade was also given to everyone. Scorch and Ignitions saved the class. Out of the box Hunters and Titans felt like their identities and roles were as defined as they had been. Though they lost some of their own exclusive identity in the way of grenades getting shared around. But with Titans lighting the ground on fire, and hunters either throwing knives in your head or leaving traps everywhere these classes feel didn’t feel to lose as much. Warlocks still have in air movement and heal, but non of that got better. If anything parts got worse. Muddled. Oh and again Hunters got the highest damage super in the game. With arc it looks again like Bungie doesn’t know what to make the Warlock. The new melee reads like a Titan ability. Warlocks don’t fly at the enemy, using our body like a ballistic weapon. In fact they seem to be going out of their way to make Warlocks more ranged in their play style. Which for a Wizard does make more sense. Calling down a lighting strike, makes sense. That lighting wave thing the Hive Wizard Guardian does, makes sense. Doing a lighting dash/teleport makes sense for mobility, but like blink or icarus. And yes, Ionic Blink makes more sense for warlocks than it does for Hunters. I don’t care they had it in D1, because it didn’t make sense there either. But I digress. The grenade aspect Titans are getting actually makes more sense for Warlocks, than the new melee for Warlocks. Creating storms of lighting that chase people. That sounds like a Lighting Shaman, like something Palpatine could and would do.

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      • Ok am I the only warlock still upset with how they just completely ruined Daybreak? -blam!- Well of radiance, I wanna be an angel of death burning the world beneath me, but Bungie neutered the ever living crap out of daybreak with solar 3.0. Dawn Chorus? Trash. Extended Super? Gone. Aggressive projectile tracking? Gone. Chain explosions? Gone. Phoenix Dive? Only once per super now! Oh and burst glide is still the slowest glide during the super!? When are they going to fix that??? Idgaf about arc3.0 until Tuesday comes so I can play with it then make a decision, but Daybreak was literally murdered without any good reason for doing so and Bungie kept quiet about it up until Season of the Haunted dropped.

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        • Edited by Infamous067: 8/22/2022 6:12:26 PM
          I really wish warlocks were not the support class, their identity in D1 was destroying everything in their path with abilities. This is why bloom exist or why bottom tree dawn at the time had a bloom like melee before it was completely removed from the solar warlock class. Bungie changed the warlock identity by making them supports which I honestly really hate. I didn’t choose warlock back then to be a heal bot or a support, I chose warlock to destroy everything in my way. Majority of warlock exotics are all about the rift, that alone really annoys me because this is bungie hard coding warlocks to be rift bots. If I knew this is the path they were going to take then I would’ve started off with hunters to be honest.

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          • My biggest gripe about 3.0 subclasses is that "democratization" took much from Warlocks, while offering very little in return. Void is still great and strong. Solar was a bit of a let down, but overall still good. We'll see when it comes to Arc.

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          • As a Warlock main, I honestly don't mind the spread of Warlocks identity. Yeah it kinda sucks for PvP, but Warlock was never supposed to be the PvP class. From D1 all the way up until the start of Witchqueen that's how it was. Warlocks we're designed for PvE, Hunters for PvP and Titans to be a middle ground. Light 3.0 is trying to muddy those waters a bit. Back in D1 I was a raid sherpa. I enjoyed helping people and it was an excuse to get raid loot. But when D2 came out, raids got harder and they added the token system. This honestly turned me away from raiding since most people joining me up to that point we're Hunters. Nothing against Hunters but Destiny's LFG community was always rough and Vanilla D2 hunter didn't really cut it. Hunters were mainly invis spam, but most teams wanted at least 3 titans and 2 warlocks. This meant a lot of sherpa teams were gonna have lots of hunters. This wasn't innately a bad thing, and I'll say I've had way more fun that way, but with the way they were designed, Hunters would die easily in raids. Now, with Stasis, Resistance abilities, and the inclusion of Devour, Healing Grenades etc, Hunters have a better chance. I'd say that's a good move. Now that we have more ways for Hunters and even Titans to turn themselves into unkillable powerhouses as well, this will make raids much easier for all classes. I've honestly considered getting back into it myself.

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          • Titans do not have any instant OHK abilities without the help from exotics. By my count currently hunters are they only class with OHK being weighted throwing knife and flux nade. Come Tuesday though everybody will have flux.

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            • I realize how luck I am. Not only have I gotten to witness every warlock main cry all week but now I have this individual here to explain why that is. It’s like the stages of grief but abbreviated for children to process.

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              • Don't void warlocks have a grenade that can OHK ,same as titan and hunter?

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                • A class getting buffed doesn't make it obeselete , the inability to read the fine print and adapt does. I've been a warlock main from the start and my counterparts continue embarrass us by for lack of a more insulting name be bots. Dawnblade is our most powerful subclass and clowns in our number called it bad when it wasn't or how when void dropped the whined because handheld is an aspect. Crylocks do what crylocks do and that's cry, warlocks always ascend and always win there will never be an instance where a warlock is not needed and definitely won't be replaced by a caped maniac and a habitual crayon eater.

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                  • I think it’s because they’re made to wear dresses all the time.

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                    • Exactly omg, my brother in Christ you have expressed all my concerns perfectly thank you. I could never explain that so well, thanks, also very well written and seen good job. Nice to see another along the lines of sane warlock main.

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                    • Edited by PixelHome: 8/21/2022 5:15:19 PM
                      [quote]Did you know that Warlocks have 0 instant killing abilities in PvP (this doesn’t include supers)? Even with added exotics, the number is still 0.[/quote] this is not true. with veritys brow, if you get a single kill with either a void or solar weapon you can one-shot with either magnetic or fusion grenades, you can also one-shot people with winters guile after a single melee kill. I'm hesitant to count warlock scatter grenades with nothing manacles since I've rarely gotten them to one shot. warlock one shots take more effort than most of the other classes though since all of them require help from an exotic.

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                      • Though you guys have your dawn blade healing pool which Is still very helpful. You guys are also more area of effect, not to mention you guys have nades that track over and around thing at target you can’t see, which is cool and annoying at the same time. [spoiler]nibbles crayon[/spoiler]

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                      • What is the 3rd hunter 1shot ability?

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                        • Don't scatter grenades 1-shot, or am I crazy?

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                          • Your right its frustrating to see warlock give there ability and only get the perk from the rework White hunter get à New super or 4 knife and titan get new melee. Stasis and void are the only class that warlock can use and feel unique and fun and strong.

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                            • I main Warlock in PvE and PvP. While our abilities aren't 'flashy' and we lack OHKs like a cool shoulder check or shatter dive or whatever, it is thru builds that we shine. We have to read situations a bit more, yes. We don't have get out of jail free cards, I know. But since the year of 3.0 I've seen more Warlocks in PvP then the entirety of D2. Once us build crafters went to work, not resting on easy outs and the 'meta', sure enough our quality revealed itself. Your post comes off to me as somebody who wants the game to play itself. I've seen so many posts since the Arc 3.0 blog; "We have no new things, Warlocks shafted!" I know that like me, the other hard read, build players are rubbing our hands because we know what's coming. I can make Arc Warlock compete in the 3.0 landscape [i]right now[/i], let alone what I'm planning with the info I got now. For instance, Arc Warlock is going to be a monster in Gambit. We don't get flashy stuff, but we are the flash. We gotta build. And then we'll get the apes complaining about nerfing us here (precisely two months after 3.0 just like the last two updates).

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                            • Did you know if you feel any of the current OHK abilities are useful in PvP you’re just a bad player 🤷‍♂️

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                              • hunter cry virus, is spreading a lot in this forum

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                                • Edited by hate n payne: 8/21/2022 3:40:23 PM
                                  Every player whines or complains in their own way regardless of which class or loadout they use.

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                                • Well said

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                                • That :) makes you look really annoying

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                                  • Sadly warlocks have stayed losing since D1. Nonetheless, I'll never change classes.

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                                    • If you want to whine some more, look at these Crucible usage rates. https://www.kaggle.com/code/mijago/inspection-dataset-v2-07-12-2022 Hunters make up half of the Crucible this season. I'm sure that with the Omni and Classy Restoration nerf, that number will stabilize, but still. That's a lot of Hunters. As a side note, when do you think the Ophidian Aspect nerf is happening?

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                                      • Can't wait for Warlocks to stop whining about 1 hit abilities when they get Flux Grenade I remember they lost their collective -blam!- when they heard the Flux changes

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